I know the helion maruader combo isn't new, but I saw Taeja doing this really nice and refined opening that I haven't seen done before (and can't find it from a search). Apologies if this isn't Taeja's build.
So the point of this build is that it gets you to the mid game with more or less the same basic units and upgrades. But in the early game there is good opportunity to harass and get a kill/cancel on nexus. If protoss has FE'd it is very hard for him to hold the first push, if he hasn't then you get confirmation that he is going 1 base play, so you can get into a better position to defend. 90% TvP for me is 1 gate FE so this buld works really well in this situation.
You push out with 3 marines, 1 marauder with conc shells and a helion and scv. Have your rax and fac rallied to your marauder. Usually the protoss will check your natural with a zealot and stalker by the time you have 3 rines and marauder (conc shells wont be done yet), but he will have to go back anyway, you can usually chase and kill the zealot with your helion. When you get to your opponents natural start building a bunker straight away. Without the bunker he can wait on his ramp and get a strong enough force together before his nexus is dead.
While this is going on you are building a CC at your natural, getting stim and a starport and will get ready for the second push.
I normally leave the bunker there and take my army home at this point. The bunker will let you know when he moves down and you can get a chance to see what units he has.
During this part we get 3 medivacs from our starport, and have marines pumping from 2 additional raxes. Like the normal 1 Rax FE 10 min push, we do a similar push here but moving out with the 3rd medivac makes quite a difference in a head on fight, and also is really mobile and lets you pick up almost your entire army and drop his main.
while this is going on you can use your fac to build a reactor for your starport, and get a techlab on your last naked barracks.
So we end up with around a 10 minute push with rines marauders and medivacs in a similar way to the 1 rax fe. But you will have denied the protoss his expansion for a lot longer than yours and you will be in a much better position for the mid game. Taking the lead early also lets you dictate the game a bit more (i've been getting sick of going 1 rax FE and then for the next 10 minutes i can't do any pressure and protoss is free to chose any FE or 1 base build he wants)
Standard gas opening 10 supply 12 rax (make 3 marines) 13 gas (3 on) 16 supply from here follow the build as you can afford it factory techlab on rax (should be when fac is half way so they line up) start producing marauders, helions and get conc shells CC at natural stim 2nd refinery starport 2 rax and reactor on fac (then lift fac and land 1 rax on reactor can make 3 rines and 1 marauder at a time) combat shields and engineering bay reactor on fac then swap with starport techlab on rax by this point you should be around 10-11 minute mark with 3 rax and reactor starport
Replay Hopefully this gives you an idea of how it flows, I will try and find the vod of the Taeja game and link that too. Be warned though I am a low masters terran on EU, so there are a lot of holes in my play. http://drop.sc/239453
you make it sound like this punishes 1g fe and will kill off the nexus, which is only the case if p doesnt know its coming and happen to play too greedily or p is just incompetent.
On August 17 2012 03:56 BBQKP wrote: you make it sound like this punishes 1g fe and will kill off the nexus, which is only the case if p doesnt know its coming and happen to play too greedily or p is just incompetent.
It does punish a 1g fe, i'm not saying it's not stoppable but every game i've had so far against a 1g fe the protoss has had to either cancel or his nexus goes down. I can't speak for higher levels of play personally though.
On August 17 2012 04:09 iiGreetings wrote: Nice guide, like how the little details are emphasized. Although transitioning out is were I think this build will be very difficult.
Thanks! The thing I like about this build though is there isn't really a transition out as by the 10 minute marker you at the familiar position of 3 rax and reactor starport, usually you just carry on with standard 3rd CC and 2 extra rax, 2nd eng bay and armoury etc. All normal play.
Kinda ironic how they spend the first few minutes of the cast talking about how copying Taeja's builds rarely leads to success.
Really this is very similar to a 2 rax build. The main win you get from this is a slight psychological edge because toss isn't quite sure what you are going for.
On August 17 2012 04:37 Willzzz wrote: Kinda ironic how they spend the first few minutes of the cast talking about how copying Taeja's builds rarely leads to success.
Really this is very similar to a 2 rax build. The main win you get from this is a slight psychological edge because toss isn't quite sure what you are going for.
On August 17 2012 03:56 BBQKP wrote: you make it sound like this punishes 1g fe and will kill off the nexus, which is only the case if p doesnt know its coming and happen to play too greedily or p is just incompetent.
It does punish a 1g fe, i'm not saying it's not stoppable but every game i've had so far against a 1g fe the protoss has had to either cancel or his nexus goes down. I can't speak for higher levels of play personally though.
Im all for you sharing your low level anecdotes, just remember to put [L] in the thread's headline.
On August 17 2012 04:37 Willzzz wrote: Kinda ironic how they spend the first few minutes of the cast talking about how copying Taeja's builds rarely leads to success.
Really this is very similar to a 2 rax build. The main win you get from this is a slight psychological edge because toss isn't quite sure what you are going for.
that edge is way more then only psychological
So explain what the big deal is about having 1 hellion instead of 2 marines like in a 2 rax? It's not like a 2 rax is a strong build to start off with.
I'm a big fan of hellions in TvP, but not as part of my army.
Hi there , this build relies heavily on metagaming and forcing the protoss opponent to take everything into account(2rax, reaper, 1-1-1, upgrades etc). The 3 marines-marauder + rally push may do damage and can be also defended(a sentrie can forcefield the ramp for example). Immortal pushes may be very hard to stop... infact any 1 base protoss pressure(fast 3 gate) can be deadly if you dont make your expansion cc inside your main.
On August 17 2012 03:56 BBQKP wrote: you make it sound like this punishes 1g fe and will kill off the nexus, which is only the case if p doesnt know its coming and happen to play too greedily or p is just incompetent.
It does punish a 1g fe, i'm not saying it's not stoppable but every game i've had so far against a 1g fe the protoss has had to either cancel or his nexus goes down. I can't speak for higher levels of play personally though.
Im all for you sharing your low level anecdotes, just remember to put [L] in the thread's headline.
Edit'ed the quotation stuff cuz Im a chobo
He doesnt need to put an [L] tag, he copied a build from a VOD and posted it. As long as he is open to suggestions and edits its fine as a Guide thread. You can't mess up a timing attack Guide if you actually sit down and take the time to analyse it.
On August 17 2012 04:37 Willzzz wrote: Kinda ironic how they spend the first few minutes of the cast talking about how copying Taeja's builds rarely leads to success.
Really this is very similar to a 2 rax build. The main win you get from this is a slight psychological edge because toss isn't quite sure what you are going for.
that edge is way more then only psychological
So explain what the big deal is about having 1 hellion instead of 2 marines like in a 2 rax? It's not like a 2 rax is a strong build to start off with.
I'm a big fan of hellions in TvP, but not as part of my army.
i mean, the edge when he doesn t know what your doin is way more then just psychological....
The build first did in the VOD. If he pushed with 3-4 gates and 2nd immortal he can pretty much kill Taeja. However you have to be pretty certain that Hellions can't do any counter damage.
EPT
