• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:13
CEST 17:13
KST 00:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double1Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2313Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon105
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Grand Finals ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8079 users

Improving Starcraft as a Broadcast Spectacle?

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 15:15:30
August 16 2012 15:15 GMT
#1
Ok so basically, was reading posts on trying to grow the whole Starcraft broadcast experience, especially to try to appeal to non players. We have seen improvements recently in my view, with things like reaction shots and instant replays.

However, as I see it all this is doing is improving the spectacle for people who are already familiar with the game of Starcraft and how it is played.

I've felt for a while that for non-gamers, or people not affiliated with the game of Starcraft do not struggle to understand the strategies or what the aim of the game is. When this is explained well by casters, or myself for example my friends/girlfriend get it pretty easily. There are sports at the recent Olympics like dressage which were painfully boring with pretty arcane rules, but yet people still watched (albeit due to the Olympic effect).

Anyhow, my point is this, it's not unfamiliarity with the game or units that puts non-gamers off. It comes down to this. For those who aren't particularly open minded I often get this response 'Oh well that's impressive and all, but he's just pressing some buttons, that's not demading'

As non-gamers are probably the last market that E-sports will eventually aim to conquer, this kind of response is one that needs to be addressed, and I believe it can be. My girlfriend has asked me questions when I'm watching streams or whatever at her house, and she can grasp the concepts of the game pretty easily, but she doesn't understand why the things I'm describing are impressive from a physical point of view.

Most other sports do not have this problem, as there isn't a two-way filter for their actions to be visible to viewers. Footballers kick a ball, and this is visible for example. Gamers are generally off-screen, inputting their actions into a computer, which is relayed to us viewers, but we don't get to see enough of what the gamers are doing at their end.

When my girlfriend requested I show her how Starcraft was actually play, she stood up and took notice, she said she'd never realised how fast and interesting it was to watch a player in action, and it was this response that prompted me to make the thread.

Take this for example : Donraegu in action



Surely shots of players really pushing themselves mechanically, can be interspersed more into games. More use of first-person perspectives can accomplish this as well.

We have improved in the sense that players are now visible often in games, and the emotive aspect of the broadcast spectacle. Now we need to show not just games that showcase impressive play, but also WHY these guys are pro-gamers and that it's not as simple as 'hitting a view buttons'
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
August 16 2012 15:24 GMT
#2
There are sports at the recent Olympics like dressage which were painfully boring with pretty arcane rules, but yet people still watched (albeit due to the Olympic effect).


Still easier to understand than Sc2.
rly ?
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 16 2012 15:28 GMT
#3
Problem is for general population, it's programmed as:
Sports: Good
Video Game: Bad
Which makes sense at least from exercise / fitness point of view.

The problem is that this also translate to:
Watch Sports: Good
Watch Video Game: Bad
Even though there is not much fundamental differences between the two.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27410 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 15:31:46
August 16 2012 15:31 GMT
#4
On August 17 2012 00:24 algue wrote:
Show nested quote +
There are sports at the recent Olympics like dressage which were painfully boring with pretty arcane rules, but yet people still watched (albeit due to the Olympic effect).


Still easier to understand than Sc2.

Not really, all the artistic disciplines are pretty much like this. The actual actions are pretty clear, and you know roughly what the judges are looking for, but what actually constitutes 'good' or 'bad' is entirely unclear unless the commentator (usually an ex-competitor) explains it dive-by-dive or whatever.

The exception to that is when you do something like this

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
Ljas
Profile Joined July 2012
Finland725 Posts
August 16 2012 15:33 GMT
#5
Many tournaments, including the ongoing IEM, show the player's face in the bottom left corner. If you tune into Day9's stream right now, you can see it's not very interesting. I'd prefer if the camera was on their hands instead.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27410 Posts
August 16 2012 15:34 GMT
#6
On August 17 2012 00:33 Ljas wrote:
Many tournaments, including the ongoing IEM, show the player's face in the bottom left corner. If you tune into Day9's stream right now, you can see it's not very interesting. I'd prefer if the camera was on their hands instead.

Yeah that's exactly what I'm getting at. The face and reaction cams are great, and add a bit more emotive weight to things, but hand cams are really underused to give you a sense that these guys are working hard. I've seen a bit of them I think it was IPL3 but that's an element of production I'd love to see expanded
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
anApple
Profile Joined November 2011
Singapore275 Posts
August 16 2012 15:40 GMT
#7
If Starcraft 2 wants to attract more viewers, something larger would probably have to be done in order to attract more attention since the game itself is already harder than others to get into. One possibility could be if Blizzard would pump more money into their tournament so that it attracts more attention. I mean, Riot's tournament for LoL has a $2 million prize pool.
huehuehue
Timerly
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany511 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 15:45:04
August 16 2012 15:42 GMT
#8
There are problems with that. Especially with booths, it's hard to set up the cameras correctly (not a lot of room inside so you'd have to make them much bigger or you get reflections if you film from outside). Watching the faces alone is not that interesting, so a camera behind them or above them which captures their hands would be more intriguing, although the face shots are absolutely necessary for these very few emotion shots you really want.
The biggest issue would be the lighting, I doubt you can get really good lighting at the players without distracting them.

However, I still think there's huge potential in production value. We need like 3 cameras per player and a heart monitor. Possibly a team-listen-in for team leagues. Many, many things that haven't been done enough yet.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
August 16 2012 15:44 GMT
#9
make the UI modular so broadcasters have complete control of the look of everything on their client.
Ljas
Profile Joined July 2012
Finland725 Posts
August 16 2012 15:45 GMT
#10
The ideal way of doing it would be to keep the camera on the player's hands, and leave it for the director to notice when it's worth showing the facecam.

Another thing that could be improved are the casters. Stacraft has a small dictionary's worth of terms that are hebrew for most non-players. While there's always stuff that just needs to be learned (took me years to get what offside meant in ice hockey), I think the play-by-play casters could keep it a bit more simple and leave the analytical stuff to their partners. TB and Apollo have been a fairly noob-friendly duo, for example.
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
August 16 2012 15:47 GMT
#11
cheerleaders
Butterednuts
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
August 16 2012 15:50 GMT
#12
I actually find shots of the players distracting to the game. When you are watching some other kind of spectator sport, it only pans outside of the actual game when there's nothing going on. I would suppose it would be appropriate to perhaps start the game with an outside look at the game and the players, but if someone commits to some really early aggression, it could completely mess up the production.

I just get irritated whenever streams like MLG or IEM show the fans or show the players typing on their keyboards during the actual gameplay.
Chameleons Cast No Shadows
Ljas
Profile Joined July 2012
Finland725 Posts
August 16 2012 15:53 GMT
#13
On August 17 2012 00:50 Butterednuts wrote:
I actually find shots of the players distracting to the game. When you are watching some other kind of spectator sport, it only pans outside of the actual game when there's nothing going on.

The problem is, the stuff that happens on-screen is separate from what the players are doing. That's exactly what the OP was talking about.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27410 Posts
August 16 2012 21:29 GMT
#14
On August 17 2012 00:53 Ljas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 00:50 Butterednuts wrote:
I actually find shots of the players distracting to the game. When you are watching some other kind of spectator sport, it only pans outside of the actual game when there's nothing going on.

The problem is, the stuff that happens on-screen is separate from what the players are doing. That's exactly what the OP was talking about.

A bit more pizazz in the broadcasts would really help step it up, at least in my view. I haven't seen a massive amount of old BW Starleague footage, but they've got all sorts of cutaways, especially in the parts of the game where not much is going on. For example I've seen at the start of the game before action is happening they'll have two cutaways showing the first-person view of each of the players

As long as it isn't overdone to miss engagements and important things, I don't really see what the downside would be of moving in this direction. MLG had the right idea with the second observer cutaways and first-person views, albeit on separate streams.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 47m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech154
Codebar 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2863
Shuttle 1450
EffOrt 923
BeSt 709
Light 424
Mini 407
ggaemo 334
Stork 278
ZerO 245
firebathero 231
[ Show more ]
Rush 171
Barracks 138
Sea.KH 80
Zeus 64
Dewaltoss 63
Killer 60
Shine 52
Hyun 40
Yoon 31
Shinee 30
Mong 30
ToSsGirL 28
Sexy 27
Aegong 25
sorry 23
Bale 22
soO 19
Terrorterran 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Sacsri 11
yabsab 8
910 7
zelot 7
Dota 2
qojqva3705
Dendi1667
BananaSlamJamma415
LuMiX1
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes538
Other Games
singsing2255
hiko1253
Liquid`RaSZi1185
B2W.Neo916
Lowko391
Liquid`VortiX238
Sick182
ArmadaUGS134
Rex98
Trikslyr32
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream547
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 9
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile119
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2225
• Nemesis2136
• TFBlade583
Other Games
• WagamamaTV285
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
47m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 47m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 47m
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
1d 8h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Online Event
4 days
FEL
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL: Ladder Tournament
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Calamity Invitational

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.