• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:23
CEST 16:23
KST 23:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results0Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Signs Child Needs Myobrace Sunbury Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results MaNa leaves Team Liquid Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026 SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ (Spoiler) Interview ASL Ro4 Day 2 Winner ASL21 General Discussion vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Semifinals A [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1744 users

Improving Starcraft as a Broadcast Spectacle?

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26790 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 15:15:30
August 16 2012 15:15 GMT
#1
Ok so basically, was reading posts on trying to grow the whole Starcraft broadcast experience, especially to try to appeal to non players. We have seen improvements recently in my view, with things like reaction shots and instant replays.

However, as I see it all this is doing is improving the spectacle for people who are already familiar with the game of Starcraft and how it is played.

I've felt for a while that for non-gamers, or people not affiliated with the game of Starcraft do not struggle to understand the strategies or what the aim of the game is. When this is explained well by casters, or myself for example my friends/girlfriend get it pretty easily. There are sports at the recent Olympics like dressage which were painfully boring with pretty arcane rules, but yet people still watched (albeit due to the Olympic effect).

Anyhow, my point is this, it's not unfamiliarity with the game or units that puts non-gamers off. It comes down to this. For those who aren't particularly open minded I often get this response 'Oh well that's impressive and all, but he's just pressing some buttons, that's not demading'

As non-gamers are probably the last market that E-sports will eventually aim to conquer, this kind of response is one that needs to be addressed, and I believe it can be. My girlfriend has asked me questions when I'm watching streams or whatever at her house, and she can grasp the concepts of the game pretty easily, but she doesn't understand why the things I'm describing are impressive from a physical point of view.

Most other sports do not have this problem, as there isn't a two-way filter for their actions to be visible to viewers. Footballers kick a ball, and this is visible for example. Gamers are generally off-screen, inputting their actions into a computer, which is relayed to us viewers, but we don't get to see enough of what the gamers are doing at their end.

When my girlfriend requested I show her how Starcraft was actually play, she stood up and took notice, she said she'd never realised how fast and interesting it was to watch a player in action, and it was this response that prompted me to make the thread.

Take this for example : Donraegu in action



Surely shots of players really pushing themselves mechanically, can be interspersed more into games. More use of first-person perspectives can accomplish this as well.

We have improved in the sense that players are now visible often in games, and the emotive aspect of the broadcast spectacle. Now we need to show not just games that showcase impressive play, but also WHY these guys are pro-gamers and that it's not as simple as 'hitting a view buttons'
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
August 16 2012 15:24 GMT
#2
There are sports at the recent Olympics like dressage which were painfully boring with pretty arcane rules, but yet people still watched (albeit due to the Olympic effect).


Still easier to understand than Sc2.
rly ?
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
August 16 2012 15:28 GMT
#3
Problem is for general population, it's programmed as:
Sports: Good
Video Game: Bad
Which makes sense at least from exercise / fitness point of view.

The problem is that this also translate to:
Watch Sports: Good
Watch Video Game: Bad
Even though there is not much fundamental differences between the two.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26790 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 15:31:46
August 16 2012 15:31 GMT
#4
On August 17 2012 00:24 algue wrote:
Show nested quote +
There are sports at the recent Olympics like dressage which were painfully boring with pretty arcane rules, but yet people still watched (albeit due to the Olympic effect).


Still easier to understand than Sc2.

Not really, all the artistic disciplines are pretty much like this. The actual actions are pretty clear, and you know roughly what the judges are looking for, but what actually constitutes 'good' or 'bad' is entirely unclear unless the commentator (usually an ex-competitor) explains it dive-by-dive or whatever.

The exception to that is when you do something like this

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Ljas
Profile Joined July 2012
Finland725 Posts
August 16 2012 15:33 GMT
#5
Many tournaments, including the ongoing IEM, show the player's face in the bottom left corner. If you tune into Day9's stream right now, you can see it's not very interesting. I'd prefer if the camera was on their hands instead.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26790 Posts
August 16 2012 15:34 GMT
#6
On August 17 2012 00:33 Ljas wrote:
Many tournaments, including the ongoing IEM, show the player's face in the bottom left corner. If you tune into Day9's stream right now, you can see it's not very interesting. I'd prefer if the camera was on their hands instead.

Yeah that's exactly what I'm getting at. The face and reaction cams are great, and add a bit more emotive weight to things, but hand cams are really underused to give you a sense that these guys are working hard. I've seen a bit of them I think it was IPL3 but that's an element of production I'd love to see expanded
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
anApple
Profile Joined November 2011
Singapore275 Posts
August 16 2012 15:40 GMT
#7
If Starcraft 2 wants to attract more viewers, something larger would probably have to be done in order to attract more attention since the game itself is already harder than others to get into. One possibility could be if Blizzard would pump more money into their tournament so that it attracts more attention. I mean, Riot's tournament for LoL has a $2 million prize pool.
huehuehue
Timerly
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany511 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-16 15:45:04
August 16 2012 15:42 GMT
#8
There are problems with that. Especially with booths, it's hard to set up the cameras correctly (not a lot of room inside so you'd have to make them much bigger or you get reflections if you film from outside). Watching the faces alone is not that interesting, so a camera behind them or above them which captures their hands would be more intriguing, although the face shots are absolutely necessary for these very few emotion shots you really want.
The biggest issue would be the lighting, I doubt you can get really good lighting at the players without distracting them.

However, I still think there's huge potential in production value. We need like 3 cameras per player and a heart monitor. Possibly a team-listen-in for team leagues. Many, many things that haven't been done enough yet.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
August 16 2012 15:44 GMT
#9
make the UI modular so broadcasters have complete control of the look of everything on their client.
Ljas
Profile Joined July 2012
Finland725 Posts
August 16 2012 15:45 GMT
#10
The ideal way of doing it would be to keep the camera on the player's hands, and leave it for the director to notice when it's worth showing the facecam.

Another thing that could be improved are the casters. Stacraft has a small dictionary's worth of terms that are hebrew for most non-players. While there's always stuff that just needs to be learned (took me years to get what offside meant in ice hockey), I think the play-by-play casters could keep it a bit more simple and leave the analytical stuff to their partners. TB and Apollo have been a fairly noob-friendly duo, for example.
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
August 16 2012 15:47 GMT
#11
cheerleaders
Butterednuts
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
August 16 2012 15:50 GMT
#12
I actually find shots of the players distracting to the game. When you are watching some other kind of spectator sport, it only pans outside of the actual game when there's nothing going on. I would suppose it would be appropriate to perhaps start the game with an outside look at the game and the players, but if someone commits to some really early aggression, it could completely mess up the production.

I just get irritated whenever streams like MLG or IEM show the fans or show the players typing on their keyboards during the actual gameplay.
Chameleons Cast No Shadows
Ljas
Profile Joined July 2012
Finland725 Posts
August 16 2012 15:53 GMT
#13
On August 17 2012 00:50 Butterednuts wrote:
I actually find shots of the players distracting to the game. When you are watching some other kind of spectator sport, it only pans outside of the actual game when there's nothing going on.

The problem is, the stuff that happens on-screen is separate from what the players are doing. That's exactly what the OP was talking about.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26790 Posts
August 16 2012 21:29 GMT
#14
On August 17 2012 00:53 Ljas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 00:50 Butterednuts wrote:
I actually find shots of the players distracting to the game. When you are watching some other kind of spectator sport, it only pans outside of the actual game when there's nothing going on.

The problem is, the stuff that happens on-screen is separate from what the players are doing. That's exactly what the OP was talking about.

A bit more pizazz in the broadcasts would really help step it up, at least in my view. I haven't seen a massive amount of old BW Starleague footage, but they've got all sorts of cutaways, especially in the parts of the game where not much is going on. For example I've seen at the start of the game before action is happening they'll have two cutaways showing the first-person view of each of the players

As long as it isn't overdone to miss engagements and important things, I don't really see what the downside would be of moving in this direction. MLG had the right idea with the second observer cutaways and first-person views, albeit on separate streams.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko426
Ryung 109
trigger 73
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 56837
Sea 2048
Bisu 1923
Horang2 1299
actioN 1042
EffOrt 982
BeSt 734
Light 430
ggaemo 370
Soma 301
[ Show more ]
Larva 267
firebathero 178
Hyuk 136
ZerO 134
Rush 132
Mong 100
Mind 93
Soulkey 83
hero 76
sSak 60
ToSsGirL 50
Barracks 49
Pusan 48
Movie 32
Sharp 30
Backho 29
Shinee 25
910 22
soO 19
IntoTheRainbow 19
Terrorterran 18
Bale 14
Rock 13
sorry 11
GoRush 11
Noble 6
Icarus 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7903
qojqva1147
monkeys_forever0
Counter-Strike
byalli599
Other Games
singsing2232
B2W.Neo1033
Beastyqt880
crisheroes312
Hui .289
QueenE111
ArmadaUGS108
Mew2King107
elazer82
KnowMe33
ZerO(Twitch)13
fpsfer 2
Organizations
Other Games
WardiTV339
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 16
• FirePhoenix7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1823
• Stunt643
• Nemesis430
Other Games
• WagamamaTV118
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
9h 37m
RSL Revival
19h 37m
Classic vs Solar
herO vs SHIN
OSC
22h 37m
Big Brain Bouts
1d 1h
sebesdes vs Iba
Percival vs YoungYakov
Reynor vs GgMaChine
Korean StarCraft League
1d 12h
RSL Revival
1d 19h
Clem vs Rogue
Bunny vs Lambo
IPSL
2 days
Dewalt vs nOmaD
Ret vs Cross
BSL
2 days
Bonyth vs Doodle
Dewalt vs TerrOr
GSL
2 days
Cure vs herO
SHIN vs Maru
IPSL
3 days
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
[ Show More ]
BSL
3 days
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-05-13
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W7
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.