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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Edit: Assuming that no prior knowledge of DF is needed /in, and I will not be modkilled, nor banned, nor burned at the stake, nor sexually harrased, nor shot, nor stabbed, nor force-fed Scottish food in punishment during the first game that the good Bluelightz is hosting. I reserve the right to take the listed punishments during Bluelightz' second hosted game until further notice. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On August 06 2012 23:27 Custos Luna wrote: Back in MY day that didn't HAVE newbie mafia. Had to walk uphill both ways 7 miles in the snow barefoot! Wait, but this is your first game on TL, right????? How can you have played a game of mafia with single digit post count??? I'm sooo confused ............... ^^ | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Edit: Unless you're name is referring to the group that protects the moon, in which case I would think it should be Custodes Lunae. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Translation] + For his abuse of the genitive I am calling out Custo Luna, and he must either change his name or I will vote for him.+ Show Spoiler + Not really, this was just a fun may to make my 4 years of latin worthwhile, and for anyone who's taken latin: Come on, Luna is a first declension noun. Easiest one to learn, and CL has it wrong in his name (Unless his name is just supposed to be two unrelated nouns, like JingleHell, VisceraEyes, and if you allow one word to be an adjective, BlazingHand, BloodyCobbler, etc, etc, etc.). This is therefore a joke. Funnily enough, the first person I'd like to ask a question is Mr. CL himself. In a way, Sciberbia's post telling people not to claim VT doesn't make any sense, especially when he comes out and says that he's a dwarf. On the other hand though, I don't see why you called out that illogical passage. Are you implying that bad logic is scummy? Or are you just poking fun at him? | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Wow, Forumite's accusation came much earlier than I expected. All Shiao had done was come out as anti-policy, and then when pressed came out against lying and lurking. What in that is scummy, I have no idea. I think its clear that Forumite has some type of plan hatching, but until we find out what the plan is, his early accusation is sort of weightless. It could be an attempt to draw scum out or to force townie mistakes in order to mislynch. Or it could be something completely different, or even some amazing, irrefutable meta-read that paints Shiao as scum already. I don't see how that could be possible, but without further information, it's sort of a null read on Forumite for now. I think Forumite does deserve some extra attention, as I'm always kind of wary of people who are scheming. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
I'll do some defense first, because it takes less time, and in a while I'll come back with my reads so far. First things first: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 16:00 slOosh wrote: Hey guys, didn't anticipate the early deadline so yea ... Anyways, any of the blue roles can be used to the "innocent child" effect. Scum are extremely limited in their ability to fakeclaim because it is a blue-wise open setup (we might not know the 2nd blue identity but we can still cc any blue claim instantly). I recommend whoever is blue to consider this and not hastily throw away a potential advantage here by claiming early (mainly tracker but same thing extends to watcher/cop). No go on double lynch. Too exploitable / volatile in a game this small. Hey Mordanis, could you explain this contradiction? If this was an attempt to draw scum out, you have now just alerted them all with the second post, which goes against what you said in the first post. You said you are currently null on Forumite yet it seems like you are leaning a certain direction in your read of him. Moving on, there's ShiaoPi's case on me + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 19:00 ShiaoPi wrote: I just read sciberbia's case on Forumite, while it has merit, I am unsure of him being scum. I can also see the early scumread on me simply as an early attempt to get some discussion/pressure going, he succeeded in that regard for sure. Regarding the logical inconsistencies they are a concern, but for now I would just like to keep an eye on him. @Custos I would really like you to contribute more. All you have done until now is pointing out a rather silly (read almost nonexistent) contradiction in one of sciberbia's posts and voicing some concern regarding me and prphlz. Mind elaborating why? Currently I am having an issue with Mordanis: Take a look at his opening post: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 03:34 Mordanis wrote: I actually disagree that talking policy early on is bad. It is only bad when the policy talk tells scum how to get off free. "We will only lynch active players" tells scum that they can get one or two players to the late-game with as little content to hold against them as possible. On a similar note, it's probably not a good idea to discuss your heuristics for finding scum until you find examples of them in people's play. If you start talking about them right now, unless you list 173 of them, scum probably will actively avoid fitting your heuristic, thus ruining your chance of finding scum. Discussing when/how to use novel mechanics is simply a rational thing to do early in the game, though. Personally, I haven't had too much time to think about when/how to use the double lynch mechanic, but I can say that in my experience it happens fairly often that neither candidate up for lynching D1 is scum, and going from 9 town 3 scum D1 to 6 town 3 scum D2 would be pretty brutal. In short, I am strongly against D1 multi-lynching unless something very convincing happens to change my mind. Aside from that, the only other bit of policy I have to offer is that we should probably wait until night to discuss power roles, NKs, etc. During the day, all that really matters (in the absence of Day-vigis) is town/mafia. Daytime is for hunting scum, not deciding power role strategy. Enough with the policy now, I'm off to find scum. He is against cutting policy talk short and proceeds to do a good amount of it. The next sentence marks Mord as anti-lurker, but then he says that policy-talk should not be done, since it gives scum a pattern to avoid. But then he goes back to say that policytalk is useful based on the ground that there is nothing else to be done. This entire paragraph is extremely redundant and makes me think of him trying to boost the look of his filter by seemingly contributing in a circular logic pattern. His next two posts are hitting Custos, he questions why he quotes that part of scib. + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 04:26 Mordanis wrote: -snip- Funnily enough, the first person I'd like to ask a question is Mr. CL himself. In a way, Sciberbia's post telling people not to claim VT doesn't make any sense, especially when he comes out and says that he's a dwarf. On the other hand though, I don't see why you called out that illogical passage. Are you implying that bad logic is scummy? Or are you just poking fun at him? He is again extremely wishy-washy. Just look at it, first he critisizes scib for claiming alignment (which is pretty much a nulltell in my opinion), but then he also "does not see" how that could be called out. When Hiro says that it is a nulltell and differentiates between alignment claim and VT claim Mord responds like this: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 04:35 Mordanis wrote: He is still implying that he's VT though, or else just asking for scum to kill him. When someone claims town, they are trying to make other people perceive them as VT. Why else would you claim town? Now he suddenly is much more concerned about claiming alignment (which he again links to VT). Flip-flopping at its best. Also on his latest post: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 05:23 Mordanis wrote: Right, and so saying that you shouldn't claim VT when you make a statement that's only purpose is to make yourself be perceived as VT seems illogical to me. Enough on that subject though ^^ Wow, Forumite's accusation came much earlier than I expected. All Shiao had done was come out as anti-policy, and then when pressed came out against lying and lurking. What in that is scummy, I have no idea. I think its clear that Forumite has some type of plan hatching, but until we find out what the plan is, his early accusation is sort of weightless. It could be an attempt to draw scum out or to force townie mistakes in order to mislynch. Or it could be something completely different, or even some amazing, irrefutable meta-read that paints Shiao as scum already. I don't see how that could be possible, but without further information, it's sort of a null read on Forumite for now. I think Forumite does deserve some extra attention, as I'm always kind of wary of people who are scheming. Keep in mind that Forumite had already accused me much earlier than Mord posted. He only gives his opinion on it when Hiro asked him specifialy to do so. Mord sees no reason to suspect me, but hadn't he said that he also dislikes cutting policy short? Shouldn't he agree with Forumite's accusation based on that? Furthermore examine the rest of the post after the part I bolded. It is actually pure fluff. I feel that Mord has a higher chance of flipping scum than Forumite does, so ##vote: Mordanis About my questions to CL, I honestly don't see any wishy-washiness. I said that it didn't make sense to claim town and tell VTs not to claim VT in the same post, but that it doesn't seem particularly scummy. I don't really see any reason for scum to do this. Later I said that if you are claiming town you are really claiming VT because it makes sense. If you claim town, you are saying that you're either green or blue. If you claim a blue role at this point, you're either really bad or scum. It makes much more sense to interpret someone claiming town as claiming VT. This does not contradict what I said earlier. Going further, there is no analysis of why potential wishy-washiness would be alignment indicative. Finally, Shiao mentions that he thinks that I should have voted for him because I didn't agree with him that policy talking is unnecessary or unimportant or even scummy. I don't see how Shiao can criticize my logic when a large part of his reason for voting for me is based on how I did not vote arbitrarily for someone because I didn't agree with them. BRB, I'm going to go get some lunch, and then I'll do some scum-hunting. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
@ CL: Just because townies aren't capable of planning as scum doesn't make them incapable of planning as townies. As a specific example, in NMM 14 Release (town) went fishing for a kp by tunelling one player all night cycle. When he wasn't killed, he assumed that the player he had tunneled wasn't scum, and thought of that person as confirmed town. He was wrong. He made a plan to find a scum, and it backfired and would have lost the game had it not ended earlier due to a hardcore lurker. This is a large part of why plans scare me~ they backfire as often as not if hatched by a townie, and they're really susceptible to WIFOM, which is a great thing for scum to hide behind. Moving to the pertinent bits, I think the scummiest player so far has been ShiaoPi. + Show Spoiler + Before anyone claims OMGUS, please read through. I am not accusing Shiao because I'm pissed, but because his play seems aligned with scum goals He starts the game off with a really bad post. + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 00:08 ShiaoPi wrote: Well well, let's get started! Skip policytalking, we all know lurkers suck, you should not lie etc. etc. LiquidTomb's fallen demand justice, so let's go hammer some goblins. + Show Spoiler + As a digression, literally less than an hour after yelling that policy is bad, Shiao is discussing the multi-lynch mechanic. In fact, Shiao makes 8 posts centered on policy after coming out as anti-policy. And he calls my play wishy-washy ^^ His next non-policy non-probing post is his accusation of me. + Show Spoiler [for your convenience] + On August 08 2012 19:00 ShiaoPi wrote: I just read sciberbia's case on Forumite, while it has merit, I am unsure of him being scum. I can also see the early scumread on me simply as an early attempt to get some discussion/pressure going, he succeeded in that regard for sure. Regarding the logical inconsistencies they are a concern, but for now I would just like to keep an eye on him. @Custos I would really like you to contribute more. All you have done until now is pointing out a rather silly (read almost nonexistent) contradiction in one of sciberbia's posts and voicing some concern regarding me and prphlz. Mind elaborating why? Currently I am having an issue with Mordanis: Take a look at his opening post: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 03:34 Mordanis wrote: I actually disagree that talking policy early on is bad. It is only bad when the policy talk tells scum how to get off free. "We will only lynch active players" tells scum that they can get one or two players to the late-game with as little content to hold against them as possible. On a similar note, it's probably not a good idea to discuss your heuristics for finding scum until you find examples of them in people's play. If you start talking about them right now, unless you list 173 of them, scum probably will actively avoid fitting your heuristic, thus ruining your chance of finding scum. Discussing when/how to use novel mechanics is simply a rational thing to do early in the game, though. Personally, I haven't had too much time to think about when/how to use the double lynch mechanic, but I can say that in my experience it happens fairly often that neither candidate up for lynching D1 is scum, and going from 9 town 3 scum D1 to 6 town 3 scum D2 would be pretty brutal. In short, I am strongly against D1 multi-lynching unless something very convincing happens to change my mind. Aside from that, the only other bit of policy I have to offer is that we should probably wait until night to discuss power roles, NKs, etc. During the day, all that really matters (in the absence of Day-vigis) is town/mafia. Daytime is for hunting scum, not deciding power role strategy. Enough with the policy now, I'm off to find scum. He is against cutting policy talk short and proceeds to do a good amount of it. The next sentence marks Mord as anti-lurker, but then he says that policy-talk should not be done, since it gives scum a pattern to avoid. But then he goes back to say that policytalk is useful based on the ground that there is nothing else to be done. This entire paragraph is extremely redundant and makes me think of him trying to boost the look of his filter by seemingly contributing in a circular logic pattern. His next two posts are hitting Custos, he questions why he quotes that part of scib. + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 04:26 Mordanis wrote: -snip- Funnily enough, the first person I'd like to ask a question is Mr. CL himself. In a way, Sciberbia's post telling people not to claim VT doesn't make any sense, especially when he comes out and says that he's a dwarf. On the other hand though, I don't see why you called out that illogical passage. Are you implying that bad logic is scummy? Or are you just poking fun at him? He is again extremely wishy-washy. Just look at it, first he critisizes scib for claiming alignment (which is pretty much a nulltell in my opinion), but then he also "does not see" how that could be called out. When Hiro says that it is a nulltell and differentiates between alignment claim and VT claim Mord responds like this: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 04:35 Mordanis wrote: He is still implying that he's VT though, or else just asking for scum to kill him. When someone claims town, they are trying to make other people perceive them as VT. Why else would you claim town? Now he suddenly is much more concerned about claiming alignment (which he again links to VT). Flip-flopping at its best. Also on his latest post: + Show Spoiler + On August 08 2012 05:23 Mordanis wrote: Right, and so saying that you shouldn't claim VT when you make a statement that's only purpose is to make yourself be perceived as VT seems illogical to me. Enough on that subject though ^^ Wow, Forumite's accusation came much earlier than I expected. All Shiao had done was come out as anti-policy, and then when pressed came out against lying and lurking. What in that is scummy, I have no idea. I think its clear that Forumite has some type of plan hatching, but until we find out what the plan is, his early accusation is sort of weightless. It could be an attempt to draw scum out or to force townie mistakes in order to mislynch. Or it could be something completely different, or even some amazing, irrefutable meta-read that paints Shiao as scum already. I don't see how that could be possible, but without further information, it's sort of a null read on Forumite for now. I think Forumite does deserve some extra attention, as I'm always kind of wary of people who are scheming. Keep in mind that Forumite had already accused me much earlier than Mord posted. He only gives his opinion on it when Hiro asked him specifialy to do so. Mord sees no reason to suspect me, but hadn't he said that he also dislikes cutting policy short? Shouldn't he agree with Forumite's accusation based on that? Furthermore examine the rest of the post after the part I bolded. It is actually pure fluff. I feel that Mord has a higher chance of flipping scum than Forumite does, so ##vote: Mordanis Even further, this is the first true case of the game, unless you count Forumite's claim that Shiao is scum. Again, posting the first case of the game is generally a good way to gain town trust in my experience. So far Shiao has seemed pretty desperate to gain a place of trust within the town. The reason I have been focusing on this is because of a post by Marv in the obs QT for NMM 22, in which Shiao has been fairly active, where he says + Show Spoiler [names edited out for active game prote…] + yes, that was (Player A)'s big mistake. Miscalculation of the consequences of doing so and of(Player B)'s town-standing (which was very high; perhaps (Player A) got misled that (Player C)'s attacks on (Player B) = not high standing? but that wasn't the case) Effectively you should not pick fights with townies who have a higher town-standing than you. (Player A) had a decent town-standing at the time but not as high as (Player B). Further to this point, it goes to show the very high value of being super townie as scum (i.e. how i play). Because then if someone decides to take you on, town sides with you. The higher your town-standing, the more town are willing to passively accept your arguments without too much criticism. Lylo in LIV was a really good example of this - I used pure WIFOM to explain away the fact I didn't die the night before and town just lapped it up because I was so established. But if you haven't got high town credit you can't get away with that kinda stuff at all. @ Forumite, I hope this is clear enough for you: ##FoS ShiaoPi For now, I need to go back and do some more analyzing and see SP's response before voting. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Marv: I'm assuming that you're referring to my analysis of his first post as well. The reason I believe that his first post is an attempt to buy town cred is because it is generically pro-town without offering any details or actually helping town. Needing to seem pro-town but not contributing to discussion is patently scummy, as it is supposed to give him all the benefits of a high level of trust while stalling D1 discussion. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Anyways, my case on Shiao was kind of shitty (especially in the fact department. I'm actually really ashamed to have forgotten about the case on Forumite.), so I'll brb with new thoughts. One final question: Sciberbia, are you basing your estimation of my scumhunting on NMM XIV? I really don't think its fair to label me as a mediocre or worse scumhunter based on a game where I was in fact on the mafia side. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Marv: Anyways, I don't really trust Marv's motives so far. His reason for voting for CL: + Show Spoiler [Reasoning] + On August 09 2012 00:31 marvellosity wrote: Final post for now. People who don't care about town: prplhz. For your convenience, his posts so far: Posting to say he isn't reading, and casting doubt with seemingly no purpose. This is seriously pants. I'd be happier to vote for him if I hadn't seen him do similar as town before. Custos Moony This dude is worse. DoYouHas talked about him a little yesterday, and I agree with what he said. To expand: This goes back to part of Shiao's case on Mordanis, where Mordanis tied himself up in knots a bit about it. However, I see the root cause of that particular problem as Luna's post here (of course sciberbia was the originator, but Luna is the one to highlight it). The problem I have with this post is that it's highlighting something without providing your own commentary on it. As DYH said, it's highlighting a contradiction that wasn't even really a contradiction. What it *is* doing is planting an idea into town, an idea that can't be fruitful, and then letting town shit itself up with it. I see strong scum motive in this. Again as DYH points out, everyone wasn't talking about a D1 double lynch at all. It was mentioned offhandedly as a bad idea a couple of times, but never seriously proposed in any way. In an empty filter, it's empty filler devoid of content for the sake of saying something. Further to note - he's at work and reading where he can, and just "poking". Excuse for not being substantial. Just pointless. If it was sandwiched between content, fine, but it isn't. The fact of the matter is that Custos was around the thread at at least three points yesterday (just check the timestamps of what I quoted) but when he's around he contributes nothing or even causes thread disruption. Second excuse for doing nothing. In short, Custos Luna doesn't give a shit about town. His original quote-post of scib's was unexplained with his own opinion and served to disrupt the thread by making people talk about an irrelevant non-contradiction. He excuses himself for scumhunting. He is currently my favourite lynch target. ##Vote: Custos Luna Mufaa/Skware in NMM 14, where one player was replaced because he didn't post at all in a cycle or two, and his replacement posted a total of like 4 times in 4 cycles, and 3 of them were in the first cycle he replaced into. He literally didn't post for at least 2 cycles and missed at least 2 votes, and he was town. Marv later posts + Show Spoiler [Similar Reasoning] + On August 09 2012 05:24 marvellosity wrote: ##Unvote Custos is actually getting involved in town affairs ##Vote: prplhz prplhz very much is not. I'm going to look more into the Forumite situation. Need to mull over what slOosh said to me and also see if I can make anything out of what seems to be a lot of 'meh' from people about it. Before I begin my next point, I want to point out again that Marv has either played in or cohosted every game I've played. Assumably this means that he has read every post of mine, and known my alignment for most of them the entire time. Marv must know my habits, foibles, tells, and what to do to get me lynched at this point. This is rather important. Here I'd like to point out these posts + Show Spoiler + On August 09 2012 08:28 marvellosity wrote: scib, I meant all the questions/explanations/possible contradictions in the explanations for Forumite's play. Most likely to be scum? ick. to be continued. For when you return - please talk about Mordanis' case on shiaopi. On August 09 2012 08:02 marvellosity wrote: ugh this Forumite stuff is soooo dense. can't tell if mordanis is scum or just made a really atrocious case. as you're here, what did you make of mordanis' case on ShiaoPi, prplhz? In short, marv is either extremely light on sharing his opinions, or is trying to find scum in a really bad way. Also, he seems to be afraid to take responsibility, which seems very scummy. ##Vote marvellosity Also, I'm going to be up for like 15 minutes, and then I'll sleep for like 4 hours, be awake for the deadline, and then probably crash 5 minutes later. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On August 09 2012 22:47 Forumite wrote: Mord change your vote to me or prplhz, there's no point in voting for marv, he's not going to be lynched today. Consolidate to one of the leading lynches, otherwise you are helping scum. How so? unless we go to a double-lynch or no-lynch situation, whether I'm one of the ones to pile on a bad case or not seems irrelevant. I notice that CL is still voting me, so why am I the one you're mentioning? | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [This] + On August 09 2012 00:14 Forumite wrote: Clarification about my opinion of Mordanis Big posts but very few, talking about me, possible VT-claim and policy, with a lot of fluff. Overall lots of text but next to no content, which looks bad. His post about "funnily enough" asking CL feels off somehow. Mordanis needs to shape up, or at least post more. I'm anxiosly awaiting the time when CL gets back. On August 09 2012 04:34 Forumite wrote: @mordanis You still fill your posts with fluff. It makes you look bad and makes it harder to understand what you mean. I don't want you to defend yourself about this, it's done, but if your scumhunting looks like the last post then I'm going to vote to have you lynched. to + Show Spoiler [that] + On August 09 2012 21:27 Forumite wrote: @scrib -I've allready answered why I kept saying I thought ShaioPi was scum even when I got unsure. -I got suspicious of prplhz earlier, but didn't trust my read at first, because I thought it might have been anger at him voting for me. Then he came back and didn't change my opinion after three posts, so I went with my earlier read, that he's scum. About mord I don't think he's scum. I don't like his long posts, but he's actually my strongest townread right now. I'm not sure if I'll be around anymore before the deadline. The main thing though is that it seems like he is just trying to muck up the thread once he dies. I don't understand why a townie close to being lynched would share town reads instead of trying to throw in some final analysis on who's scummy. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
## Unvote ## Vote Forumite | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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