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Hello fellow terrans!
Replay: http://drop.sc/189626
League: Top 3 gold
Race: Terran
Nick: Lotix
Small introduction
I have really hard time dealing with late zerg. Especially taking 3rd 4th expansions. So i was working a bit on early-mid timing/2 base all in. Which i will explain below.
Details of my timing attack
General idea is hitting zerg when he's weakest - early game. Zergs usually drone up heavily for first 8 mins while producing couple of zerglings for scouting/harass/map control.What i'm trying to achieve is to obtain decent amount of hellions with blue flame (debatable) 2-3 medivacs and solid amount of marines and marauders (roughly 1:1 ratio marine to marauder) and hit zerg's 3rd at around 10th-11th minute. Hellions are supposed to take care of zerglings and banelings while marauders and marines are to deal with roaches (zerg usually goes for roaches after scouting my hellions which is perfect reaction for my timing) I try to line it up with +1 attack, stimpack, 2-3 medivacs and blue flame upgrade.
All on 2 bases (1 rax + 1 depot expand in to double/triple gas in to 3 rax 2 factories 1 starport in to 5 rax)
I don't usually take 3rd because this build is already pretty allinish. If it doesn't deal enough damage or kill zerg at start it's pretty much game over.
My replay analysis
I went with my standard build of 1 rax + 1 depot in to gaseless expand on metalopolis (not the safest map for early expand hence added bunker and depot "wall") i scout to check zerg's natural and main then leave scv on his 3rd (it doesn't always survive which i need to fix) while expansion goes up i add 2 gases and begin adding more rax and factories along with engi bay for +1 upgrade. I try to macro as good as i can. I get supply blocked sometimes which is really bad and it's one of my biggest mistakes that match. I'd have bigger army to hit zerg with, but instead i sat supply blocked for a while. I research +1, stim, blue flame. 2 rax with tech labs 1 with reactor pumping marauders and marines, 2 factories one with tech lab for blue flame upgrade and reactor for massive hellion production. I keep on producing units until 10-11. Then i get attacked by random zergling run-by. Which i deal with very poorly. But it didn't have major outcome in my opinion. I scan zerg plenty of times and after dealing with run-by i decide to hit zerg 3rd and face his ling/roach/infestor army. I barely win it (which in my opinion could be dealt better with more micro, spreading on my bio and hellions) I moved back and regrouped around three times. I didnt kill zergs 3rd and i i didn't do enough damage. I had major lead in supply for most of the time until ultralisks popped (zerg should be dead way before) which crushed my army and forced gg.
What i think i did wrong?
-Below average macro. I think i'd get bigger ball of units if i didn't get screwed by my lack of supply depots
-Lackluster micro. I think lack of said micro made zerg deal way too much dmg with infestors. I didn't split units at all (which i usually try to)
-I didn't add on more barracks to keep on marauder production. I think it was way too late.
-I didn't finish off zergs hatchery which in my opinion was very crucial. He kept on mining from it which translated in to superior economy over my 2 base.
Now my question is. Are there better ways of approaching zerg with such timing? Shall i skip blue flame in favor of something else? Shall i incorporate some ghosts in to my army to deal with infestors? Mix in some siege tanks? Infestors seem to be really big deal for my timing and they are biggest stopping force. What are the possible improvements to my build and gameplay?
Replays, opinion and constructive criticism more than welcome. I'd really love to know what you guys think i could improve.
Cheers
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League: Top 3 gold, stopped reading there. Sorry, but i dont think you should be focusing on strategy right now.
User was warned for this post
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On June 02 2012 04:40 FoolieCoolie wrote:
League: Top 3 gold, stopped reading there. Sorry, but i dont think you should be focusing on strategy right now.
I agree with this guy but the reason why, is that you shouldn't be focusing on modern builds like tank-less TvZ, the reason being is that you have no where near the control to make that army cost effective or the multi-tasking which pro players have
Just stick to polishing your macro, and you'll do fine with marine/tank medivac with your league
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Im working on both! Could you give me replies regarding my replay?
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On June 02 2012 05:06 Tsuycc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 04:40 FoolieCoolie wrote:
League: Top 3 gold, stopped reading there. Sorry, but i dont think you should be focusing on strategy right now. I agree with this guy but the reason why, is that you shouldn't be focusing on modern builds like tank-less TvZ, the reason being is that you have no where near the control to make that army cost effective or the multi-tasking which pro players have Just stick to polishing your macro, and you'll do fine with marine/tank medivac with your league
You should watch the replay. He has less resources in units lost right up to the final battle. I also disagree about the control. Just pulling marines back and splitting them a bit, letting marauders tank banelings / fungals is adequate in gold league.
Anyway, I suggest finding a pro with a similar style and copying a build order exactly. Either that or sitting down in single player for a while and figuring out your build order more exactly.
Currently there are a few things that look a bit vague. For example you get 2 gas, but don't put the factory down as soon as you have 100 gas... do you need both gases straight away? Also, you put down the ebay a long time before getting +1. Figuring out exact timings for your buildings will help a lot as you can check the replay afterwards and say... "my factory was late this time, I have to focus on that next time".
Salvaging your bunker was obviously a mistake, so you lost SCVs, but it looks like you can still afford a 3rd base when you're pushing out for the first time. If you get a PF up while your first push is going on you're still in a good spot. In my opinion, if it's really meant to be an all-in build, you should be taking SCVs with your push. If not (I'd suggest not) - you should take a 3rd.
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1. tankless tvz either you have to develop KR bio control or make tanks bro, us NA folks are better off with smart fire + 13 range 
2. blue flame is a waste of money, unless you open blue flame, but that would delay your timing push. the only timing push that involves blue flame hellions and bio that is pretty good is a follow up to an 11/11 2 rax which is a combat shields and blue flame timing. for reference you can look up CoLGanzi and his game vs gosuvibe on belshir beach. ganzi loses, but he had the right idea. even with good control, sometimes the lack of splash just hurts you too much
3. there are better timing pushes that commit much less to the pressure and are generally more effective because marauders are a RESPONSE to hatch tech defense and an early 3rd from Z. terrans mix marauders in in order to punish early 3rd which is scouted by hellion. blindly doing a maraduer hellion push will win you probably exactly 50% on ladder and not help your matchup skills.
Thorzain version:
10 supply
12 rax
15 gas
1 marine + OC + command center and 2nd depot to finish wall in
reactor + factory and a 2nd barracks added on
stim + reactor hellions, after 6 hellions build starport on the reactor and another rax. push at 6 hellions 15-20 ish marines and 2 medivacs at around 9 30 - 10.
if you do not waste money on marauders, you can afford things like +1 infantry weapons, tanks to help secure your 3rd after you attack, etc. marauders are very hit or miss in this matchup, i thinkt he pure marine variations of the 9 - 10 min medivac push is much stronger/more reliable and less of a commitment.
the overall goal of this 10 min medivac pressure in both tvz and tvp is to :
1. see his tech. you see collosus or infestors run the fuck away. he has earned some alone time by dumping money into splash you can't handle yet.
2. punish double upgrading styles
3. waste his money tryiing to engage against stimmed marines/hellions and medivacs at an early stage of the game
if youre winning the game with this push, you're not doing it right, or he's doing something very wrong. if you're losing the game with this push, you need to change it. i saw your replay and i have to say that your own observations about it are pretty accurate. you don't addon enough production after the attack, you don't finish off the hatchery, etc. it seemed like your whole build revolved aroudn this push and you didn't know how to transition. the scary thing about terran in this matchup is that you can do this kind of pressure, and then follow up with 5 reactored raxes, a 3rd base started at 9:30, tanks off of a single factory with the option to add more with geyers 5+6 at your 3rd base, and stim/shields done.
my recommendation: do this build vs ai one hundred times, plan on when to add 2 more raxes, your 3rd CC, etc. focus on good unit production, and do some thinking about what it would take for you to secure your 3rd if your push goes horribly wrong
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EPT
