EPTOn June 11 2012 16:10 supersoft wrote:
lol okay, now I got it. This setup is perfect for me.
Ahm let's discuss the dayshooting:
Should VTs shoot day1, to maximize their number of KP?
lol okay, now I got it. This setup is perfect for me.
Ahm let's discuss the dayshooting:
Should VTs shoot day1, to maximize their number of KP?
If this setup is perfect for you, how come you are even asking if VTs should shoot d1? It's quite obvious in my opinion that they should, as it's our only reliable way of killing scum. No lynches in this game, as can be seen from the op. So why would we want to give the scum + a possible SK a free night to kill townies with? 4 Mafia in the game, can't be that hard trying to find one, especially as we start from N0, we will have something to go by on D1.
On June 11 2012 17:25 gonzaw wrote:
Please everybody don't make a L plan to shoot a townie 5 minutes into D1.
If you think someone is scum and really want to shoot them...you can always shoot them later (if everybody follows this trail of thought we'll have normal days).
Please everybody don't make a L plan to shoot a townie 5 minutes into D1.
If you think someone is scum and really want to shoot them...you can always shoot them later (if everybody follows this trail of thought we'll have normal days).
The thing is, we can't be sitting on our asses waiting until we are absolutely mod-confirmedly certain about scum. Of course no-one should take hasty decisions by themselves, but if the discussion isn't going anywhere and we can't agree on a target, I'd much rather see someone take the initiative than sit around wondering what to do until it's too late.
On June 12 2012 01:03 chaoser wrote:
If they can shoot, they are not one of the three regular mafia.
If they can shoot, they are not one of the three regular mafia.
You seem to be certain in your claim that there are three regular mafia. Explain?
On June 12 2012 01:05 Toadesstern wrote:
We need to play normal instead of focussing on millers because frankly with framers and gfs running around I don't see an easy way to figure them out.
We need to play normal instead of focussing on millers because frankly with framers and gfs running around I don't see an easy way to figure them out.
Same question to you. Earlier you were like you didn't know there could be additional/modified roles than the ones listed in the OP, and now you seem like you are taking a framer for certain. How come?
Regarding RoL's miller claim, at the moment I'd prefer to see him take the shot late tomorrow if he survives the night, with reasons why he chose that specific target (whomever he picks, if we proceed with the miller-takes-the-shot-plan.) Obviously in my opinion even though he should be the one suggesting his target, we should not let him get away if he decides to take a random shot at someone most of the town does not agree with, especially if it's not backed up with arguments.
On June 12 2012 05:58 supersoft wrote:
Wish i was VT. Maybe I am... Maybe not...
Wish i was VT. Maybe I am... Maybe not...
And the point of this is? Maybe you'd like to take a shot at someone?
On June 12 2012 06:04 supersoft wrote:
If I was VT, I would agree on that. Moreover would I assure, that I will shoot anyone that shoots townies without discussion.
If I was VT, I would agree on that. Moreover would I assure, that I will shoot anyone that shoots townies without discussion.
And 6 minutes later you claim not VT. I'll let everyone make their own assumptions about this.
@ wbg, more useful content please.
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2012 07:56 kitaman27 wrote:
If you shoot five minutes into the game, you will be shot day two.
If you shoot within the first 24 hours of a cycle, you will be shot the following cycle
If you shoot without the town's consensus, you will be shot
I don't care if you shoot a mafia player. If you break one of those three rules, you will be shot in return.
By shooting early and often, the mafia godfather gets the most out of his role. We shouldn't allow a random player to shoot at will.
If you shoot five minutes into the game, you will be shot day two.
If you shoot within the first 24 hours of a cycle, you will be shot the following cycle
If you shoot without the town's consensus, you will be shot
I don't care if you shoot a mafia player. If you break one of those three rules, you will be shot in return.
By shooting early and often, the mafia godfather gets the most out of his role. We shouldn't allow a random player to shoot at will.
I agree with these points.
On June 12 2012 08:48 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, damn, I really want to start some analysis, but this whole night is just a bunch of discussion about plans
Anyways, damn, I really want to start some analysis, but this whole night is just a bunch of discussion about plans
If you want to start doing some analysis, you should stop writing about possible plans yourself. Seems kind of contradictory to me. This nightphase is by no means just discussion about plans, in my opinion it is very well possible to analyze someone's behavior already. (Of course a larger sample size is always better, but sometimes you can get a good start with just a little.)
Adding to what you were talking about medics, if they find out that they are insane, they should stop protecting VT's unless the 50% chance is crucial for our survival and still having a shot at winning the game for town.
Marv makes a small analysis post on RoL's miller claim, Toad performs the bandwagon jump surprisingly fast, I do not like.
On June 12 2012 10:30 gonzaw wrote:
Yeah I got carried away when I mentioned the watcher
He's under scrutiny just by claiming Miller. Mafia may take the chance to shoot him tonight or on N1 just because of the reasons I presented previously.
The "real" game hasn't started yet (the analysis and shit), so there's really no behaviour that can convince me Rol is GF (like I said his claim alone makes me think its legit).
Anyways I gotta eat so I'll expand later
Yeah I got carried away when I mentioned the watcher
He's under scrutiny just by claiming Miller. Mafia may take the chance to shoot him tonight or on N1 just because of the reasons I presented previously.
The "real" game hasn't started yet (the analysis and shit), so there's really no behaviour that can convince me Rol is GF (like I said his claim alone makes me think its legit).
Anyways I gotta eat so I'll expand later
Everyone should be under scrutiny. Not just someone claiming Miller. I don't like how you state that the real game hasn't started yet, and you give an absolute "There is really no behaviour that can convince me RoL is GF", just because in your opinion the game hasn't started yet?
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2012 10:35 talismania wrote:
I've realized that an idea I had after Space Station might be applicable here. I was saving it up for a game with a mayoral election and PMs, but I then saw that in this game we all get to be mayor!
So here's the outlines of the idea. The goal is to catch scum out in the long run by forcing them to post cases, suspicions, etc. Scum operate by feeling out the thread, sensing where discussion is going and nudging it along in a favorable direction or whatever. Blending in and all that jazz. To make it harder for this to happen (and to simultaneously make it so that everyone is playing harder), I came up with this proposal.
(1) Everyone has to pick one person to make a case on, for why they think that person is scum. You have to actually make the case, like you're radfield or qatol or whatever. Nice decent-length post.
(2) Everyone reveals their case at the same time (a good time would be near daybreak). This is the part that makes it hard for scum to blend in.
(3) Note that there's extra information to be had here: who participated and who didn't. And why did the people who didn't participate not do so?
(4) We take a look at the cases and go from there.
FAQ:
What's this good for again?
--Forces participation / thread reading
--Forces scum to make their own cases rather than hanging back
--Additional information: HOW do people make their cases etc
--When someone flips scum, there's a wealth of information to look back on. Who did they make a case on? Who made a case on them? Etc etc
How the fuck do you get everyone on the thread at the same time?
--You don't need to. You can post your case before the deadline but encrypt it using http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/javascrypt.html and then post the key later. Yay encryption!
What's wrong with just posting our cases as we make them?
--Nothing really. That's obviously how every other game is played. But doing it this way can force everyone to play harder, better, etc. See the first question. It's not like posting has to stop until the cases are made or anything.
Does it have to be a case on a single person?
--All that matters for point (1) above is that it's something agreed to by everyone. It could be a case on a single person. It could be reads on everyone in the game. It could be a top four list of scum contenders. Whatever we think generates the most information.
Your point (4) - how do we get from this to a lynch?
--Nothing in particular. This acts as an info dump. We can get from it to the shooting however we want.
Boohoo it will spam the thread up!
--Suck it up and play the game. Mafia is about reading things and making decisions. If you're concerned about this, then we can all put our encrypted cases in spoiler tags.
___________
I will do this for sure. Anyone with me?
I've realized that an idea I had after Space Station might be applicable here. I was saving it up for a game with a mayoral election and PMs, but I then saw that in this game we all get to be mayor!
So here's the outlines of the idea. The goal is to catch scum out in the long run by forcing them to post cases, suspicions, etc. Scum operate by feeling out the thread, sensing where discussion is going and nudging it along in a favorable direction or whatever. Blending in and all that jazz. To make it harder for this to happen (and to simultaneously make it so that everyone is playing harder), I came up with this proposal.
(1) Everyone has to pick one person to make a case on, for why they think that person is scum. You have to actually make the case, like you're radfield or qatol or whatever. Nice decent-length post.
(2) Everyone reveals their case at the same time (a good time would be near daybreak). This is the part that makes it hard for scum to blend in.
(3) Note that there's extra information to be had here: who participated and who didn't. And why did the people who didn't participate not do so?
(4) We take a look at the cases and go from there.
FAQ:
What's this good for again?
--Forces participation / thread reading
--Forces scum to make their own cases rather than hanging back
--Additional information: HOW do people make their cases etc
--When someone flips scum, there's a wealth of information to look back on. Who did they make a case on? Who made a case on them? Etc etc
How the fuck do you get everyone on the thread at the same time?
--You don't need to. You can post your case before the deadline but encrypt it using http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/javascrypt.html and then post the key later. Yay encryption!
What's wrong with just posting our cases as we make them?
--Nothing really. That's obviously how every other game is played. But doing it this way can force everyone to play harder, better, etc. See the first question. It's not like posting has to stop until the cases are made or anything.
Does it have to be a case on a single person?
--All that matters for point (1) above is that it's something agreed to by everyone. It could be a case on a single person. It could be reads on everyone in the game. It could be a top four list of scum contenders. Whatever we think generates the most information.
Your point (4) - how do we get from this to a lynch?
--Nothing in particular. This acts as an info dump. We can get from it to the shooting however we want.
Boohoo it will spam the thread up!
--Suck it up and play the game. Mafia is about reading things and making decisions. If you're concerned about this, then we can all put our encrypted cases in spoiler tags.
___________
I will do this for sure. Anyone with me?
This is totally unrelated and unnecessary in my opinion. Why would we need such special case plans to find out who's scum? Just play like the game is usually played. If you think someone is scum, make a case, or convince others why that someone is scum. Random ideas for how we should play the game are not needed, concentrate on scumhunting instead of making these. Weak start.
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2012 11:03 gonzaw wrote:
Yeah I'm not really putting too much effort this game for now (other than just coming up with a plan of action).
Why not? You talked about how you want to get to analyze stuff but then you keep just talking about random plans when you didn't really want to. That doesn't make any sense to me. Where's the enthusiasm?
Mostly because I expect to get shot tonight, so anything I do would basically be pointless (I knew that in pre-game though).
.... I don't even know what to say to this. You don't even know your role pre-game, why would you expect to get shot on N0 before the game has even started? I don't like that attitude at all. You can't play mafia going into the game thinking "I'm going to die soon anyway so anything I do is pointless." You have to make the best out of it while you are alive. If you die and are a townie, you better have made the time you were alive count for your teammates to take the game for you.
And no, the "real" game hasn't started because there's basically nothing to analyze or to respond to. There aren't any cases, or people's thoughts on other players, and I'm lazy to check each filter to try and gauge a read out of people just by their opinion on the plans presented.
Every post is analyzable or respondable. It may not be useful in every case, but there is certainly a lot to go by already. If there aren't any cases, you can make one. If people don't post their thoughts yet, you can ask for them. What's up with this sudden lazyness of yours?
Yeah I'm not really putting too much effort this game for now (other than just coming up with a plan of action).
Why not? You talked about how you want to get to analyze stuff but then you keep just talking about random plans when you didn't really want to. That doesn't make any sense to me. Where's the enthusiasm?
Mostly because I expect to get shot tonight, so anything I do would basically be pointless (I knew that in pre-game though).
.... I don't even know what to say to this. You don't even know your role pre-game, why would you expect to get shot on N0 before the game has even started? I don't like that attitude at all. You can't play mafia going into the game thinking "I'm going to die soon anyway so anything I do is pointless." You have to make the best out of it while you are alive. If you die and are a townie, you better have made the time you were alive count for your teammates to take the game for you.
And no, the "real" game hasn't started because there's basically nothing to analyze or to respond to. There aren't any cases, or people's thoughts on other players, and I'm lazy to check each filter to try and gauge a read out of people just by their opinion on the plans presented.
Every post is analyzable or respondable. It may not be useful in every case, but there is certainly a lot to go by already. If there aren't any cases, you can make one. If people don't post their thoughts yet, you can ask for them. What's up with this sudden lazyness of yours?
My points to gonzaw in bolded.
Another thing I would like to point out is that there is a possibility that we have an SK in the game which can be bulletproof. The only threat for the SK are daykills, (or maybe an insane medic protection can kill at night, not sure?), which basically means that if there is an SK, he/she will most likely want to shoot at town, to lessen the overall KP. If the mafia has only 1 daykiller (GF), like most people seem to suspect, the SK only needs to ensure that the GF is dead if there are no other mafia roles to threaten him, which means he could win in an 1vs3 mafia situation. Because that I think it is very likely that the SK will be shooting into town (+ Mafia GF, which the town wants dead also)...
I ask all players to keep an eye out for a possible SK. This should NOT override all the other scumhunting going on, just one possibility that is important to keep an eye on in my opinion.
