EPTMagic: The Gathering Mini Mafia
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No but seriously I'd say it's generally advice, I'm not sure that I agree on the DT advice but then if all the other stuff is him actually trying to help that probably is too and I'd defer to his judgement on that over my own. | ||
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Next ##Unvote ##Vote: Mattchew As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it. On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell. Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets? Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate. | ||
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Mattchew see what you just did there is actually the opposite of what I was saying, I'm serious if you're town there is no possible way what you're doing can help. Froggy the difference is that bad play has to do with someone as a player and how experienced they are, it's not something you can expect someone to instantly switch of or change just because it's not exactly how you want them to do. Holding yourself to a stupid and disruptive post restriction on the other hand is something that not only can you instantly stop doing, it's something I would expect you to not do without being told. It also has a key difference in that bad play is very much readable, often easier to read in fact than good play, posting only text written by other people for a game on the other hand is as close to impossible to get reads from as I can think of. That is the big difference. VE why would you think 2 families? I don't think I've ever played a mini on TL, is there a standard number of scum that's not 4? And are multiple family games common? | ||
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*switch off or change* | ||
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On May 22 2012 10:24 EchelonTee wrote: Of those three I would most support Acid dying, just chiming in he is saying 1. don't miss these things said in the past 2. don't ignore the fact that these comments were useless reading comprehension this reminds me of when people wanted to kill fourface for "trolling" I'm not saying he's town, but he's not autoscum for doing that, and ur either bad town or scum for talking like that. Well here's the funny thing ET, I actually read those differently, I thought the don't dismiss what appears useless thing was referring to his posts and that they appear useless but have actual reads or something. Now that you've said that I see that your interpretation is also reasonable but you know what, I really don't want to have to go through his posts like a freaking reading comp test when there is absolutely no reason they need to be like this, we shouldn't need to argue over what someone's posts mean or constantly have to ask them to clarify because they refuse to give up a stupid and annoying posting style to be clear I don't think that this means that he's definitely scum, he may not even be my biggest scum read but as long as he's playing anti-town for a very easily fixable reason I don't really care. | ||
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Beyond that WBG is suspicious to me, his posts are just not particularly contributory, his only real substance is his attack on NT who really was just the easy person to accuse at that point, after that there are just some questions and pointless discussion, no real reads or pushing people even as he comments on the lurking. | ||
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I didn't really intend on wasting my vote on Mattchew anyway, even as annoying as he is I almost always want to vote to hit scum not just for policy or because someone's playstyle is anti-town, and his posts have been clearer and more explicit which helps, but Mattchew please continue to make your reads explicit as it's impossible to get reads on you based on post-content or behavior and if I can't get a read I'm going to consider it a scum-read. So at this point it looks like it's between NT and MJ, I don't love these options but MJ is an okay lynch and NT I have a semi-strong town read on so ##Vote Mouldy Jeb On him I don't have much because there's not much to see, he lurked and now he has a decent number of posts but almost none of them say anything, he's lurky and now that there's a serious wagon on him he's seemed to have resigned himself to getting lynched with no anger, scumhunting of others, or even really attempts to convince us not to. NT has seemed aggressive but it frankly seems more town than scum and while there's been bad logic and bad cases those are the types of arguments some people make whether they're town or scum, and usually they're louder and more open with them as town so that definitely isn't a scumtell to me, I don't know of anyone that as town makes good cases/arguments then decides to use worse ones as scum. | ||
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To VE I haven't looked for the post shift out of NT that you're saying is there, I'm gonna go check for it but I didn't notice anything like that on my first read-through, I will be looking hard at WBG for tomorrow as I thought he was scummish yesterday (irl) | ||
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On May 23 2012 06:42 HiroPro wrote: Jeb looks to have left the thread. He's a scummy quitter. If you honestly think he's town, then lololol. And why do you think he's scum, but don't want to vote for him, VE? And what the heck is VCA. Vote count analysis And VE I see what you're saying and it is possible to respond like that as town but in my experience just giving up with no unhappiness or anything about getting lynched and no real attempts to stop the lynch or push someone else is not something townies do often, as scum it's easy to get oneself thinking "oh they got me, there's no way I can move this wagon because I'm scum and they know it" As town you know that you're town and usually would try to show others. Also while I still think NT is probably town, rereading him and looking at recent posts one unsettling trend is his constantly talking about his own meta and how he's matching it, I haven't seen many town who pay so much attention to their own meta, usually as town one would just think I'm playing town, it's gonna match my town meta. Scum have to pay more attention because their behavior is going to change and they have to make an effort to keep it as much the same as they can. Frankly once it's clear that he's paying so much attention to his meta, meta arguments that would point to him being town are pretty much useless since he's obviously making a real effort to keep with his town meta. | ||
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On May 23 2012 06:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah man, but here's the conundrum - OTHERS have been citing his meta as evidence if his towniness, and FIRST actually. So is he just parroting what others have said as a new town trying to show up who he perceives as a threat, or is he new scum literally telling us he's scum? This is the information I was trying to go over with Bugs last night which he's completely ignored. So is that your opinion then, that he's probably town and just intimidated into defensiveness? Well I can't say for sure, I'd say my read's still town on him but that was based on other stuff, I really only just noticed this part. It is something that I generally do view as scummy, and has pushed him down in my reads but this one aspect of his play isn't enough to make me think he's scum by itself. If he is town I wouldn't say that I'd identify this as "parroting what others have said as a new town" he doesn't seem like the type to do that, he seems to have a very distinctive and personal posting style with enough games done that I really wouldn't think he's a complete newbie just parroting others. If he's town I'd say this more makes sense as part of his posting style, it's certainly conceivable to me that someone could in general get the idea that meta is really important and get so focused on it as to bring it in on themselves even as town, especially after others use it to call them town so that's what I'd say it probably is if he's town. Or he could be scum and just worried about his meta. Right now I'll say I still think he's town but I still do need to check for that change you pointed to. | ||
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1. People need to be more active, way too many people are lurking right now and it's gonna make it easy for scum to hide among the lurkers, if people continue to lurk like they are we're going to need to take some of them out, on a related note 2. Vigis if they choose to shoot tonight (and from the start I would probably advise against that) should shoot into the lurker pool, it has a decent to good chance of hitting scum as I'm willing to bet at least a couple of them are hiding among the lurkers and I would much prefer vigs shooting lurkers to them trying to make big plays by unilaterally deciding that someone really active that a bunch of people have town reads on must be godfather and it's their job to stop them | ||
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On May 24 2012 02:24 Mattchew wrote: The wizard's spellbook was full of burning questions. Why Mostly because of how aggressive and forward he was with his reads and who he wanted to lynch at the beginning of the game. That usually is a town trait and looking to his posting later on he continues with his aggressive play and reads without seeming too random or inconsistent which scum usually fall into when they play like this. In addition I just haven't seen much in his posts that seems too scum* to me, most of the cases on him seem to be for bad cases or poor logic and one of the things that I am most sure of in mafia is that using poor logic is absolutely not a scum-tell unless you can show that they should be playing differently, (basically unless WBG or VE start making terrible cases it's not a scum-tell) and given how vocal he is and how much pressure is on him I would expect to see much more things that actually make me think scum-agenda from him if he were scum. *There is one rather important caveat here, while rereading him I noticed that aside from his focus on his own meta that I've already commented on he also just gets very defensive overall which makes me less sure of him being townie than I would have been, this is a reservation but not enough to throw away my overall read. Also VE I did not see the change in play that you were pointing to with him, he seems to be playing "the jester" just as much now as he had been before. So Mattchew I answered your question, now I have one for you, you posted your reads on everyone (which btw was very helpful and thank you for that) but I'm particularly curious about your reads on WBG and VE, you say you think they're both town because you don't think they would "play this way as scum" but you also would change that opinion if they live too long. First I'd like you just to explain a little more specifically what way they're playing that makes you think they're town, you seem to think that they're both very good (per you saying that you might change your read just because scum let them live) so how can you be so sure on them. Also as a comment I think it's a bad idea to let your reads be effected so much by what the scum do with them, it seems like it would be a cop-out to actual behavioral analysis, sounds like "I'll just assume they're town, if they get shot obviously we'll see what they are, if not they must be scum for not getting shot". Also please post on each of them separately even if it takes separate posts and more time, it's problematic when people and reads on people start getting grouped together, it lets scum just pair up with and act a bit like a townie without having to worry as long as the person people associate with them is obv-town. Wrote this up a little bit ago and just saw the day-post, I'm gonna look through ET's posts from yesterday, if scum didn't shoot a vet which apparently is the standard here they probably had a specific reason to want to get him out of the way, even if not confirmed townie's thoughts should be useful. On the stuff going on now I like both tunkeg and zealos for scum. And that feels wrong to me, it's unlikely we pick out two scum this early in day two without any connections from others, I had a scummy read on tunkeg from very early but since then nothing's lit up from him, zealos on the other hand has been getting steadily worse, I'm gonna look through both but right now I would prefer zealos. Also Hiro what the hell does that even mean? | ||
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