|
Allo folks, I have 3 maps for you today. I'm experimenting with a lot of layouts here and trying to figure out what works and what doesn't in these three.
(REVISIONIST HISTORY NOTE: originally exile cell was first in the order and cracked cell was second)
May 9th Update:
Cracked Cell is my focus currently, and it has a new jungle aesthetic. Additionally, the center has been modified: a new set of ramps has been added which connect to the high-ground pods, and LoS blockers have been placed in the gap between this new set of ramp and the old ridges.
The map is much more aesthetically pleasing and I am planning on using it as my submission to MotM for this month.
Cracked Cell
(Updated May 9th 2012)
Cracked Cell is a 2-spawn map which the second map was based upon.
Mostly self explanatory. Highground pods on each side are watched by Xel'naga towers and provide access to all of the expansions.
Center is mostly wide open but has a ridge on each side.
Bounds: 128x132
Overview:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kRsXz.jpg)
Old Overview:
+ Show Spoiler +
Angled Overview:
+ Show Spoiler +
Analysis:
+ Show Spoiler +
Closeups:
+ Show Spoiler +
Exile Cell
(Updated May 3rd 2012)
The second is Exile Cell, a 4-spawn rotational map.
Third has attached backdoor to fourth. It's fairly easy to expand either way around the map depending on your opponent's position (all spawns enabled).
The center is blanketed in Xel'naga vision and provides access to every part of the map.
Ridges form chokepoints and it is possible to become trapped in the center if your opponent gets a good position, so going around the long way may be useful.
Map is fairly open, so holding Xel'naga towers is crucial to surviving. Walling off later bases is also useful.
Bounds: 140x140
Overview:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YsHhw.jpg)
Simplified Overview:
+ Show Spoiler +
Angled Overview:
+ Show Spoiler +
Analysis:
+ Show Spoiler +
Manic Sedition
The last is Manic Sedition, a 2-spawn map which was inspired by the last map.
Both third options are very wide open, and natural highground-pathway extends to both of them.
Highground pods on the side of the map provide vision with Xel'naga towers over crucial areas which have access to all of the expansions.
Center is wide open with very small entrances, at least until the rocks are destroyed.
Top left and bottom right bases are half-bases.
Bounds: 132x124
Overview:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/V2UVb.png)
Angled Overview:
+ Show Spoiler +
Analysis:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Rky
|
exile cell looks quite similar to ESV Vicious, though the other two are really cool.
|
These are all nifty. I like seeing multiple riffs on a theme. A lot to chew on, I'll be back with comments at some point.
|
The first one you can lock down all of the attack paths pretty easily using the towers, so it would be very easy to prepare for any attack and turtle up on three or four bases.
The second one looks like you can hit the natural with tanks from across the gap.
The third one looks really nice. It doesn't look like tanks can hit the natural and the watchtowers don't cover everything. By moving to the watchtower you put yourself out of position to protect the natural, so it encourages some decent positional play across that space. That said, taking a fourth base might be quite difficult.
|
And I thought you had disappeared. Good to see you again 
I liked all of these a lot, and they are actually quite different from one another. I think you should keep all three ^^
Just a little concern : for all three of these, the thirds are quite far away. Also on Cracked Cell, the rocks are unnecessary I think.
Why not use LoS blockers ? I think their interactions with Xel naga towers could be quite cool in all of these.
|
On April 30 2012 19:45 Yonnua wrote:
The first one you can lock down all of the attack paths pretty easily using the towers, so it would be very easy to prepare for any attack and turtle up on three or four bases.
The second one looks like you can hit the natural with tanks from across the gap.
The third one looks really nice. It doesn't look like tanks can hit the natural and the watchtowers don't cover everything. By moving to the watchtower you put yourself out of position to protect the natural, so it encourages some decent positional play across that space. That said, taking a fourth base might be quite difficult.
I agree with everything he said, but on all three maps the main base minerals and gas seem to be too close together, but maybe that's just my bad eyesight.
|
On April 30 2012 15:00 EcstatiC wrote:
exile cell looks quite similar to ESV Vicious, though the other two are really cool.
A lot of my inspiration for that one was from ESV Vicious and Antiga Shipyard. 4-spawn maps are kinda new to me (my published list is 14 2-spawn and 1 4-spawn right now), so any of them I make will probably be very similar to other 4-spawn maps.
On April 30 2012 15:09 EatThePath wrote:
These are all nifty. I like seeing multiple riffs on a theme. A lot to chew on, I'll be back with comments at some point.
I usually end up doing several maps in one theme and then trying another theme. I've 5 or so that I haven't posted up here yet in a space theme and 2 in a monlyth theme similar to An Open Face. Aesthetics are sort of random decisions for me, I think of a layout and just grab a random tileset.
On April 30 2012 19:45 Yonnua wrote:
The first one you can lock down all of the attack paths pretty easily using the towers, so it would be very easy to prepare for any attack and turtle up on three or four bases.
The second one looks like you can hit the natural with tanks from across the gap.
The third one looks really nice. It doesn't look like tanks can hit the natural and the watchtowers don't cover everything. By moving to the watchtower you put yourself out of position to protect the natural, so it encourages some decent positional play across that space. That said, taking a fourth base might be quite difficult.
The tower layout is basically borrowed from ESV Vicious (I was like, "wait, I can put towers everywhere?!"). Two alternatives I've considered are removing the central pod and replacing all 4 towers with 1 middle tower, or reducing the vision range on each tower/moving them further in so there's a small outer-rim that's undetected. The large coverage range was kind of my excuse to then make the base layout very open and spread out, though.
I checked, and you're right, the gas is in range, so I'm going to move them a little further away and add some doodads to prevent this.
Yeah, the idea with the third map was to accentuate the important-highground aspect of the second map. You're right about the fourth, though, all of your options seem too open and far away. I may need to make changes.
On April 30 2012 19:59 ArcticRaven wrote:And I thought you had disappeared. Good to see you again I liked all of these a lot, and they are actually quite different from one another. I think you should keep all three ^^ Just a little concern : for all three of these, the thirds are quite far away. Also on Cracked Cell, the rocks are unnecessary I think. Why not use LoS blockers ? I think their interactions with Xel naga towers could be quite cool in all of these.
I think the thirds on the first two are pretty close, though the third map may be a bit far.
The rocks on Cracked Cell are because I wanted to make each player have more ownership over his half of the map. That is, I wanted the map to be split more vertically than diagonally, because otherwise the corner bases are 50/50. Its something I need to work on, I think.
I kept looking for places to add LoS blockers on these, but nothing really stuck out to me, and I didn't want to add them if they didn't add something to the map. Though, I think I might replace the rocks on Cracked Cell with them. Surrounding the xel'nagas with LoS blockers might be interesting, though.
Thanks for all the feedback.
|
Quick notes on all maps:
Your mineral lines are weird... Maybe try looking at some blizz maps or ESV or TPW maps to get a feel on how to make them better? It helps if you make them diagonally oriented. Yours are kind of diagonal kind of cardinal... they're weird. This just results in weird mining rates which you don't want on your map.
Mains could be bigger. You are at 27.9 CCs and you want to be more at like 35 CCs. Really 30-35 is fine but if you shoot for 35 you have some leeway.
The close spawn rush distances on the first map and the rush distance on the second map might be too short... I don't know. If it's over 115, it's fine, but it would be preferable for those to be like 125.
Exile Cell
Good map overall. Solid proportions and map flow. An interesting design, if nothing overly unique or game changing. I really like the rocks at the third. They are unique and I think they will play interestingly. The center is also interesting, but again pretty standard.
I like the watchtowers because they are split between the spawns. And although together they see a lot of the map, each individual tower is not overpowered.
This map grows on me more and more as I look at it, so that's good.
Suggestions: If you make the mains a little bigger (you may have to push the playable bounds out one or two in each direction to do this) and also move the natural out away from the center of the map it will make the map feel much less cramped. As of right now, terran players will have trouble with production on this map, as there isn't much room for building buildings.
Cracked Cell
I dig it. I'm just going to go straight into suggestions because I like it well enough as it is but with some improvements it will be awesome.
Suggestions: Remove those rocks at the counter clockwise fourth. They kill the map.
Really long explanation here:
+ Show Spoiler +As of right now with the rocks you seem to be encouraging a vertical split of the map. Here's a little picture of that for you: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VnLAH.jpg) Now, I've drawn the base expansion order on there and the lines of defense for each base. Notice that between bases 3 and 4 there is a huge shift in the direction of expansion and the direction the line of defense expands to. This makes the fourth harder to take because it involves vast shifts in concentration of units. Also, it spreads to a whole different section of high ground. That's difficult. Suddenly this map is promoting 3 base death ball play because the fourths are annoying to take (one has rocks and one is far away/difficult/one that I described above). Now look if you removed the rocks and players expanded more freely counter-clockwise: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/odSrZ.jpg) Bam! Fourth is easy, so if one player is death balling, the other can expand more to counter it. The direction of expansion is consistent. The watchtower helps in defense of the far bases. Expanding aggressively is suddenly encouraged! Also, the final line of defense is shorter. This is good because the players do not have to run all over the map to defend all of their bases. There are enough points of attack to keep it interesting, but the line of defense doesn't cross the whole map. In the vertical split, the final lines of defense were also at the same spot. That means the last bases will hardly ever be taken because it requires too much dedication from the player's army. Now macro games are really possible! Yaayyyyyyy. Another note: I notice above that you talked about the rocks encouraging players to expand clockwise. The thing is, a player will naturally want to expand counter-clockwise because the defense lines are shorter. They can get more resources per unit of land they have to control. And I think the map just flows better counterclockwise.
Please read the explanation, as it will help with what I am also about to say.
Do the same thing as I said for the first map in regards to the natural and main. More space there is good.
I would also suggest pushing the clockwise thirds further away from the main so that counter-clockwise expansion is more encouraged. Again, this simply promotes more macro style games as opposed to 3 base death-balling.
Really a solid map. I hope you continue work with this one.
Manic Sedition
This map has some inherent problems that make it difficult to really work on. Because of that, I'm just going to address those problems but not their solutions. If you come up with some smart solution, bravo, but I think the other 2 maps offer better possibilities for improvement.
The thirds are both wonky. They are very open and a little far from the nat. The counter-clockwise one is better, but the high ground above it makes it less desirable. The indecisiveness here makes the rest of the map feel very wishy-washy to the player.
The fourths and fifths are unclear. Which is which? A player could take both at the same time (or similar times), which often happens anyway, but they are so far away from the thirds that it would require too much investment for the likely possibility of losing the expansions or getting a runby in the natural.
Overall the proportions (level of openness versus chokiness) is off in this map. There are some areas that are very choky and some that are very open. It's not an easy fix to make.
The idea on this map isn't bad, but the execution left quite a bit to be desired. In general, the second map you posted is a much better 2p map, so I'd say scrap this one and work on that one to make it awesome!
Overall
You show a lot of promise. Some really solid proportions in the first two maps (although the mains are a little small and the rush distances a tad short in spots).
These maps aren't anything super new, but you have some great ideas. Keep 'em coming. We love new ideas (if they are well done )
These maps will provide a really solid base for you. They are pretty standard, but from here on is where you can start to really make some sick new maps. Build off of these and you'll go to great places.
|
Amazing post by Rumblebadger there. I couldn't have said more. I especially think he's right on Cracked Cell.
|
The first map I think would be better if the inner ramps in the middle would be whole instead of split. It gets really really cramped there with the small chokes. The outer split is good, breaks it a little from the usual boring, but the inner ones really make it hard to manouver (specially with the rocks there).
Sick maps sir (2nd one is epicly good, remove the rocks tho as RB said)
|
Wow I love Manic Sedition; a real original take on how a base will look like. I can't really tell much about the possible balance issues that may arise without testing it, but I certainly will.
|
I really like all of these concepts. Overall, the middle one is my favorite because it seems the most original out of all three ideas. I think that if the two low ground paths into the middle were not there, it would increase positional awareness in the late game and make the map more technical by forcing players to travel up the high ground hills to travel between bases. I think that this change would make games on Cracked Cell more interesting.
|
I do have to add that my post is more in regards to if you want to make your middle map a macro map. If you are trying to make it a very aggressive map, I am not the person to ask (Personally I'd say Barrin or ProdiG are best at that style of map-making). But I will say that that map can't be aggressive with an easy third. But just making the third harder wouldn't really make it aggressive....
|
Sorry for the absence, I've been swamped the past few days. I've updated Cracked Cell and Exile Cell.
- Both: Stretched the maps out in order to move the natural back slightly so it is out of tank range and expanded the size of the mains.
- Both: Adjusted doodads near the fourth(?) base to keep tanks from sieging the natural.
- Cracked Cell: Removed the debris and widened the choke where the debris used to be.
- Cracked Cell: Moved Xel'naga tower slightly and extended vision range.
Also, I fooled around in photoshop and superimposed the influence map onto the summary and made a simplified overview image for both maps.
On May 01 2012 08:18 RumbleBadger wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Quick notes on all maps: Your mineral lines are weird... Maybe try looking at some blizz maps or ESV or TPW maps to get a feel on how to make them better? It helps if you make them diagonally oriented. Yours are kind of diagonal kind of cardinal... they're weird. This just results in weird mining rates which you don't want on your map. Mains could be bigger. You are at 27.9 CCs and you want to be more at like 35 CCs. Really 30-35 is fine but if you shoot for 35 you have some leeway. The close spawn rush distances on the first map and the rush distance on the second map might be too short... I don't know. If it's over 115, it's fine, but it would be preferable for those to be like 125. Exile CellGood map overall. Solid proportions and map flow. An interesting design, if nothing overly unique or game changing. I really like the rocks at the third. They are unique and I think they will play interestingly. The center is also interesting, but again pretty standard. I like the watchtowers because they are split between the spawns. And although together they see a lot of the map, each individual tower is not overpowered. This map grows on me more and more as I look at it, so that's good. Suggestions: If you make the mains a little bigger (you may have to push the playable bounds out one or two in each direction to do this) and also move the natural out away from the center of the map it will make the map feel much less cramped. As of right now, terran players will have trouble with production on this map, as there isn't much room for building buildings. Cracked CellI dig it. I'm just going to go straight into suggestions because I like it well enough as it is but with some improvements it will be awesome. Suggestions: Remove those rocks at the counter clockwise fourth. They kill the map. Really long explanation here: + Show Spoiler +As of right now with the rocks you seem to be encouraging a vertical split of the map. Here's a little picture of that for you: Now, I've drawn the base expansion order on there and the lines of defense for each base. Notice that between bases 3 and 4 there is a huge shift in the direction of expansion and the direction the line of defense expands to. This makes the fourth harder to take because it involves vast shifts in concentration of units. Also, it spreads to a whole different section of high ground. That's difficult. Suddenly this map is promoting 3 base death ball play because the fourths are annoying to take (one has rocks and one is far away/difficult/one that I described above). Now look if you removed the rocks and players expanded more freely counter-clockwise: Bam! Fourth is easy, so if one player is death balling, the other can expand more to counter it. The direction of expansion is consistent. The watchtower helps in defense of the far bases. Expanding aggressively is suddenly encouraged! Also, the final line of defense is shorter. This is good because the players do not have to run all over the map to defend all of their bases. There are enough points of attack to keep it interesting, but the line of defense doesn't cross the whole map. In the vertical split, the final lines of defense were also at the same spot. That means the last bases will hardly ever be taken because it requires too much dedication from the player's army. Now macro games are really possible! Yaayyyyyyy. Another note: I notice above that you talked about the rocks encouraging players to expand clockwise. The thing is, a player will naturally want to expand counter-clockwise because the defense lines are shorter. They can get more resources per unit of land they have to control. And I think the map just flows better counterclockwise. Please read the explanation, as it will help with what I am also about to say. Do the same thing as I said for the first map in regards to the natural and main. More space there is good. I would also suggest pushing the clockwise thirds further away from the main so that counter-clockwise expansion is more encouraged. Again, this simply promotes more macro style games as opposed to 3 base death-balling. Really a solid map. I hope you continue work with this one. Manic SeditionThis map has some inherent problems that make it difficult to really work on. Because of that, I'm just going to address those problems but not their solutions. If you come up with some smart solution, bravo, but I think the other 2 maps offer better possibilities for improvement. The thirds are both wonky. They are very open and a little far from the nat. The counter-clockwise one is better, but the high ground above it makes it less desirable. The indecisiveness here makes the rest of the map feel very wishy-washy to the player. The fourths and fifths are unclear. Which is which? A player could take both at the same time (or similar times), which often happens anyway, but they are so far away from the thirds that it would require too much investment for the likely possibility of losing the expansions or getting a runby in the natural. Overall the proportions (level of openness versus chokiness) is off in this map. There are some areas that are very choky and some that are very open. It's not an easy fix to make. The idea on this map isn't bad, but the execution left quite a bit to be desired. In general, the second map you posted is a much better 2p map, so I'd say scrap this one and work on that one to make it awesome! OverallYou show a lot of promise. Some really solid proportions in the first two maps (although the mains are a little small and the rush distances a tad short in spots). These maps aren't anything super new, but you have some great ideas. Keep 'em coming. We love new ideas (if they are well done ) These maps will provide a really solid base for you. They are pretty standard, but from here on is where you can start to really make some sick new maps. Build off of these and you'll go to great places.
First of all I believe my mineral placements are regular enough, as they only vary slightly from standard placements, and many of them are standard placements. Most mineral placements you see in maps are half/half or full/zero in terms of vertical v. horizontal patches. Mine are usually half/half or three quarters/one quarter.
Secondly you raise a good point about the main size and I did increase this accordingly (normally I shoot for 35 anyways).
Thirdly I read your thoughts about Cracked Cell and I agree with you, and have changed it accordingly. I wasn't looking at it quite the right way, I think, and so the rock placement was awkward.
Finally the main thing I agree with you on the third map is that the proportions are off. I'm still puzzling over this one and I may or may not attempt to revise it. There's a lot I like about the map, but it didn't all come together quite right. I'm still thinking about it, at this point.
On May 03 2012 08:59 Antares777 wrote:I really like all of these concepts. Overall, the middle one is my favorite because it seems the most original out of all three ideas. I think that if the two low ground paths into the middle were not there, it would increase positional awareness in the late game and make the map more technical by forcing players to travel up the high ground hills to travel between bases. I think that this change would make games on Cracked Cell more interesting.
My only issue with that is I think it might make the middle too closed off, i.e. not open enough. Maybe if I extended the ramp as well, it could work, but for the moment I prefer having the low ground route. I do see your thinking, though, and it's something I want to incorporate more into my maps, but this one might be maxed out.
On May 03 2012 09:53 RumbleBadger wrote:
I do have to add that my post is more in regards to if you want to make your middle map a macro map. If you are trying to make it a very aggressive map, I am not the person to ask (Personally I'd say Barrin or ProdiG are best at that style of map-making). But I will say that that map can't be aggressive with an easy third. But just making the third harder wouldn't really make it aggressive....
I'm not after aggressive maps, so it's not a problem. A lot of the little things I do with my maps are there to make aggressive play less favorable (for instance, usually I put the mains and their mineral lines in the very corner edge of the map to make harassment of the main more difficult, and I avoid putting airspace around the main). The main/natural/third layout of all three maps is intended to create a situation where the main is surrounded and cannot be dropped without first being seen by the natural or third.
|
I think you should add LoS blockers in these lowground paths, in order to make them less attractive and give a reward for highground control. Also it becomes an ambush site.
On a side note - do you read your pms ? ^^
|
On May 06 2012 06:43 ArcticRaven wrote:
I think you should add LoS blockers in these lowground paths, in order to make them less attractive and give a reward for highground control. Also it becomes an ambush site.
On a side note - do you read your pms ? ^^
I considered that, but it just feels unnecessary to me. However I am looking to see if there's any spots where LoSBs would be useful so I may try it anyways.
Also, I didn't even see that, sorry.
|
May 9th Update:
Cracked Cell is my focus currently, and it has a new jungle aesthetic. Additionally, the center has been modified: a new set of ramps has been added which connect to the high-ground pods, and LoS blockers have been placed in the gap between this new set of ramp and the old ridges.
The map is much more aesthetically pleasing and I am planning on using it as my submission to MotM for this month.
Any criticism on the new aesthetic is appreciated, I haven't done this style before. I'm going to add some closeups to the main post momentarily.
|
I LOVE the aesthetics. Fantastic blending work with the textures, I can't tell which ones you used where (which is good). It's not distracting, but still very pleasing.
This map is starting to look very polished. Good luck in motm!
|
United States10125 Posts
cracked cell has a very similar base layout as cloud kingdom. but its different with the middle and stuff. I really like all three maps though, all are very well done.
|
On May 10 2012 11:23 RumbleBadger wrote:
I LOVE the aesthetics. Fantastic blending work with the textures, I can't tell which ones you used where (which is good). It's not distracting, but still very pleasing.
I can :D
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kbffB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0UpAV.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EEyNc.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ehZRc.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JnNWG.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6Sy8W.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GEMlO.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QlkHE.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Bh0cl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/E5ISI.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/psKwz.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oMYuX.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OrIkz.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tQBC3.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Pix66.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eCHqI.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/50YhX.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qO0CY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LvWXt.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PBGja.jpg)
