EPTTL Mafia 'Area' LIII
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Mementoss
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On April 15 2012 03:46 Mattchew wrote: /in Hopefully mattchew is not on the scum team he might out them all on his death  jk <3 | ||
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On April 15 2012 18:20 Incognito wrote: Half the mafia are immune to night KP, which makes vigs more than useless. Why are the mafia being rewarded for good town play? Why are they being further rewarded when the vig dies? Then you increase volatility further by concentrating mafia KP into 2 of their members and allow the mafia KP to be halved after the 1st mafia death, and eliminated after 2. Keep in mind with a good vig shot we half the mafia KP | ||
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On April 21 2012 09:24 Mattchew wrote: what about roleblockers laya? Not a role, but I guess mafia could switch there KP to kill the vigs. | ||
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On April 21 2012 09:52 johnnywup wrote: I think the plan falls apart if there isn't either a vig or a tracker, which is why I brought up that it's possible we don't have a vig. And what stops mafia from claiming vig then killing? Tracker sees that they kill the person that they kill, but hey it's a misfire right? Possibly, then if we policy lynch failed vig shots we could possibly waste lynches killing townies. But we wouldn't know anyways. So I feel like the plan is flawed from that perspective. . Well Vigs come up GF and cant kill while Goons can kill. So if someone claims misfire and you double track them, you can confirm goon if they shoot again. | ||
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On April 21 2012 10:05 johnnywup wrote: Mementoss, I never said it wasn't productive. I only said it was hypothetical. I didn't say hypothetical=unproductive. I think it's very important to talk about this kinda stuff right now. It seems like a waste to go through things that possibly aren't even in the game. Also I'm just saying that say a scum could give an opinions towards the town that directs blue in a way that doesn't benefit town. I'm not sure of the best course of action towards vig. Im trying to think why a scum would want to claim vig. If there goon and they get tracked they are going to get killed. If they are GF they just bring attention to themselves. I guess they could claim a shot that didn't go through as there would be no counter claim and try to kill an innocent townie by making them look like a mafia. But its a suicide plan. VE says kill all claimed vig shots, or tracked vig shots. On the face this seems scummy as you might kill a town. But I think it is a reasonable point. If you kill a claimed shot, you have at least a 40% (if 3 vigs 2 GF) chance of hitting scum, but it is more likely 50%(2 vigs 2 GF) or 66%(1 vig 2 GF). That is assuming a townie wouldnt be stupid enough to lie and fake the claim. The only problem is we really can't verify if we killed scum or not. But this might scare real vigs away from claiming shots. Sooo not sure what to do. Lol. | ||
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On April 21 2012 10:37 gonzaw wrote: If mafia claim vig, and claim to shoot a target, and then do so with their own KP, this can happen:
I guess this means that maybe the GF's won't fake-claim vig, and the Goons will instead? In that case, if we ever lynch him, he will flip Goon and we will know 100% that he was scum when he's lynched. If he was GF and we lynched him, since he would flip GF we wouldn't be 100% sure he was scum. So to fake-claim, scum have to choose between: -Being protected from trackers, but not creating confusion if they ever get lynched, nor having to rely on JK's to claim their shots or -Creating confusion if they ever get lynched, but not relying on JK's to claim their shots, nor being protected from trackers. The point is that they have to choose, they HAVE to do something. We will force them to react to our plans, and hopefully they fuck up their plans/fake-claims and we catch them easily. I think your messing up here Goon would never claim vig. He would need to claim hitting a godfather, then we lynch that person they come up not godfather and we half the mafia KP. Or he says jailkeeper saved the shot, then jailkeeper could counter claim. Or we could just kill the vig claimer right there. Also GF does not have KP. He will need to claim hitting a GF, or jailkeeper. Then we do the same as above. I really see no reason to fake claim as mafia, unless its a special late game circumstance. | ||
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Mementoss
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1. Vigilantes do not claim. 2. Vigilantes do not shoot. That is until.... 3. Vigilantes CAN shoot after 2 GF's drop. But Mementoss this is a WASTE OF TOWNS BLUES. You know what no, vigilantes rarely ever hit. And in this case if they do hit they have a 50% chance it doesnt go through and we have no way of telling if they are lieing or not. So fuck that. The best case scenario for us is mafia killing our vigilantes by mistake at night. That stops all confusion of the mechanic. So vigilantes, play like Vets, you wanna soak up night hits. Also butttt Mementosss this might be super duper late in the game. I don't care. THIS game is about killing the goons. GF kills can't be seen as helpful till late game when they are super confirmed, or if they are killed at night in which case they were a vig. Killing 1 goon is confirmed and halfs the mafia KP. Killing 2 goons, allows us to just chill with no night kills for mafia. Im confident we can win with 0 mafia KP. 4. After 2 GF's drop Vigs can start shooting (yay) But, claim your shots before you shoot them. This means, all Jailkeepers stay AWAY from the fucking targets. Vigs this means there is very little reason your KP shouldn't be apparent at the night. The only way the night KP doesn't go through is this. There are 2 vigs, or more. 1 GF is dead 1 Vig is dead. Vig shoots a GF. The probability of this situation seems very low imo. And even so in this case, we kill the claimer first then we kill the claimed shot. Worst case we go 1 for 1. Also if we are lucky mafia shoots a vig, which means a GF pops at night, in this case we wait till 3 GFs drop to shoot and claim. Vigs shots usually are only useful at killing lurkers, but they drop town numbers quick. With this fucked up mechanic I don't mind them not blowing there load early and saving for late game, where we have a lot better chance to kill goons. TLDR; -Vigs dont claim dont shoot until 2 GF's flip. (special circumstances 3) -Vigs play like vets -Vigs hurt town more then they help early game -GF's aren't the droids were looking for GOONS are the key to winning as town | ||
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Mattchew paqman case Marvellousity case VE vs Gonzaw case | ||
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Gonzaw: At first glance I think his plan looked pretty good. But after thinking about it, it seems fishy to put our blues in the open. It also tells scum whether or not we have tracker and jailkeeper if 2 vigs claim. Giving them more information then they need and giving them less fear about the possibility of them. Also it takes away the best case of the miller mechanic. Being killed at night, by mistake. I think my plan is superior. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=14#279) I think the "scum" slip is honestly VE reading it wrong. I think its just him meaning "us" as in the town. It felt like he genuinely wanted the town to use it. Also, I'm not saying ignore scum slips, but in more cases then not these slips are made by town. It can be used as supportive evidence but not as the main case on a lynch imo. I think a lot of VE's case against his plan is ignorant and uses JK mechanic but it was addressed by gonzaw. But, I think the case was in good mind trying to bring the discussion from mechanics, to scum hunting and pressuring. Also I know this gonzaws town meta from LI but he is spamming a bit again, sorta like HEY EVERYONE ALL ATTENTION ME sorta deal. This is consistent with his town play though. But stop spamming while your around you don't have to reply to every post and ask everyone to post about you, etc. Overall: Null leaning town VisceraEyes: The case against him by Gonzaw was purely OMGUS. It used an example of a scum slip as him being town for a defense, it didn't put anything against VE. It also says he doesn't explain why the plan is bad, even though VE went into excrutiating detail with why he wasn't on board. I think it's good that VE has came out to take discussion away from all this blue and mechanics into the scum hunting mode, even though his case is based on something that seems not lynch worthy. Then pushing it in an odd way, with one liners. Gonzaw makes the case all about him by saying basically you think my plan is bad and discrediting it, and I scumslipped while I was town. Overall: Null leaning town. Mattchew: Here is the whole OMGUS case against him: On April 21 2012 23:00 PaqMan wrote: BJ wtf did I just read. The only posts that made any sense was the one about the mass roleclaims and the fos on marvellosity, which I agree on. I think he'd be a good candidate for a vigi shot. I'm voting for mattchew. Dude's scummy as hell. Also, That's his only post since the game has started. He'd be a good vigi shot as well. ##Vote: Mattchew What is this I don't even. He contributed more than most people, that didn't even post or just posted agreeing statments. Like VE I think this was meant to be pressure towards you on fishy behaviour. Your OMGUS case also makes you seem more scummy as well as someone jumping right to your defense. Overall: Leaning Town Paqman: I don't think the case that Matthchew put against you was amazing, but it definitly pointed out some inconsistencies and wishy washyness, and made you post something other than, yeah I agree with gonzaw. It also showed your OMGUS reaction. Overall: Null leaning scum Marveoulosity: I agree completely with the BJ case against you. Your posting, while not contributing. Asking questions towards people, just to get responses, to make it look like your contributing to discussion. While never posting your own unique thoughts. Based on your other games, this seems very unlike you, as you rarely post these types of one liners, and usually are a contributer. BJ says it best, your lurking in plain site. Overall: Looking pretty scummy ##Vote: marvellosity | ||
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I scim thread I will read tommorrow,. it seems like saame old people aruguing like blahj blaj and everyon else is like fuck you im not gunna post shit./ like seriosuly the lurkers are laughing or are just bad, at this game also blazingjitse, more like fucking blazhing hand c u 2morrow | ||
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Hes a vig looking to ensure his death N1 to get rid of a confusing GF mechanic Hes really bad at playing blue roles He somehow thought it would benefit him or the town but it really doesnt Trying to stop from getting lynched Reasoning for VE claiming as scum: Trying to get a counterclaim out of another JK making it less likely that VEs claim is true Trying to get more credibility and get someone killed on his "scum" list Trying to stop from getting lynched Trying to confuse the town The claim really doesn't make much sense either way. It reminds me a lot of his fake claim in LI where he was in fact scum. He claimed when the lynch could have went either way, and afterwards he claims to be the smartest player in history and lays out the whole scum team that he found. Gotta re-read to get a consensus on this play. | ||
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Lets go through this for you: -Lets Lynch Gonzaw (in this fashion FOR THE TOWN LYNCH GONZAW IM SURE HES SCUM) -Lets Lynch Bill Murray ( in the same fashion) Then this: On April 22 2012 13:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Do we lynch BM or Mattchew? This is the first time you've even mentioned Mattchew in your filter since your first joke vote. You give no reasoning behind the Mattchew suspicion at all. Then this: On April 22 2012 22:06 VisceraEyes wrote: The scum are Bill Murray, gonzaw, MidnightGladius, layabout as far as I can see. I want to kill BM first. Where'd Mattchew go? Now this: On April 22 2012 23:15 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not actually - I don't think I'm any better that anyone else - only slightly more experienced. I'm trying to use reason as a defense, but it's not really working. Anyway, I'd like to hear EVERYONE'S thoughts on the BH/Jitsu hydra please. As hyperactive as they were pre-game, they should have been in here freaking out by now. I actually feel like I want to lynch BH/Jitsu more than BM at this point. What do you guys think? Now you want to lynch BJ, even though they weren't on your scum team just a few posts earlier and you never even mentioned them other than, they should be all over my claim. They should be posting is your only reasoning against them. Not being in the thread at a particular time is not a case sorry to say. This is also very relevant to your scum meta in LI, odd claims, massive suspicion switches, can't keep your stories straight or keep your head on straight for that matter. You keep mentioning things such as after I flip you'll be sorry and such. As well as saying things like "THIS IS TOWNS BEST OPTION THEY WILL FLIP SCUM FOR SURE!" Your play is ridiculous to say the least. Your the most scummy in my mind right now. Unvote: marvellosity Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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VE very well could be JK, his claim doesn't make sense either side. If we don't lynch him and his claim is true, scum will most likely take care of him either tonight or the next night. Maybe by then he can somehow prove his claim. I think its best to wait it out. Worse case by lynching him we take out our own blue. Let mafia waste KP on that. BM should be vigged if we have a vig, claim the shot before you shoot. If he doesn't die, We know that, either the shooter or BM is GF. Hes lurking and acting scummy, but hard to tell cause he has like 3 posts. Lynching him doesn't tell us anything if hes town, shooting him is the better option. Also I like gonzaws case on Risen. His posts lack meaning and consistency. He has a hard time to commiting to anything and his emotions are all over the place. Im happy with a Risen lynch over the other two. Risen looks scummy, and the other two cases will hopefully work themselves out with night actions/ VE somehow confirms his claim then gets killed by mafia KP. ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##Vote: Risen | ||
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