EPTDeath Factory Mafia 2
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
I'm ready! /cue spongebob | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
##push visceraeyes Now seriously, I just got off from work, this weekend was crazy, I couldn't post at all and blah-blah-blah-no-one-cares. I'm still sorry, though  .Just finished reading the thread. I'll post my opinions soon enough, but for now, I see no point in leaving Palmar hanging. My read of him is mostly null (though the only game I played with him he played like he didn't care and was scum all along), but the being caught stranded the way he is convinced me he's town unless VE is actually scum and they're doing a crazy play to get everyone's trust (yeah, I doubt it). VE's plan sounds sound. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On April 03 2012 06:43 Cephiro wrote: @Sbrubbles : What is your reaction to risk.nuke's ability? Essentially means there is at least 1 scum in you, me & syllo. If he was lying, he'd be risking a counter claim, since his role is known from the previous game. I think he's telling the truth. Admittedly, neither you nor syllo are strong scum reads in my book, though I think he feels scummier than you, so I'd vote for him if that was the case. I'm not gonna pull him yet pending the VE rescue, though. Reasoning: On April 02 2012 01:50 syllogism wrote: The problem with free for all PoPing is that once someone throws down their vote, they can't get it back. If that is allowed, scum can throw away their vote while hasty townies can waste theirs. If we later reach a consensus on "lynching" someone, the votes may not be there and we'll gain less information as some people may have already used "their votes". On April 03 2012 04:18 syllogism wrote: ##push Bill murray Rereading cephiro first before I decide on my pull. Sbrubbles hasn't even posted which could be him not wanting to play due to rolling scum, but I really dislike lynching someone based on no information at all, besides the supposed role information. Syllo makes his case for some secondary voting mechanism by criticizing that free for all PoP allows both town and scum to waste their PoP. Then he throws away his vote on BM randomly. Free for all posting doesn't mean town doesn't try to reach a consensus and he pushes regardless. Is he trying to make his point about organized secondary voting being better or throwing away his vote as scum? His whole discussion with BM, questioning both the claim and game balance around it was an especially useless and space consuming discussion. BM's information isn't relevant for now and claim may or may not be true, but itself it wasn't scummish, so I don't see the point in dwelling in that. Lastly he tries to buddy with you to quickly throw me down. No waiting for me to post? Just "pulling him because he hasn't posted yet"? At least it makes more sense than his BM push, but still, if I was gone for good, there would be reason to expect a replacement, so why rush on me? Cephiro, aside from you trying to get me killed (though unlike syllo, at least you tried talking before using your PoP), I can't fault your play too much. You're mostly null to me, though you have your scum points. At the beginning of the game I would agree on your stance on getting Palmar the item, in that the items are so much more useful in the hands of scum that it isn't worth a 3/4 chance of town getting it. But after he got close (before he was frozen), he just couldn't complete his task, which would be easy with a scum buddy, so I think he could be read as town. Threatening to off him is terrible play from a town perspective. It would lead the town in a bad direction (you'd be lynched if he turned green) and sounds like blackmail above all. That is scummish in my book. Also, your overall agressiveness on Palmar seems a bit forced. Based solely on posting it's hard to argue he is anything. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
##pull syllogism Another point is that we may be able to get another lynch in by pushing. There are still 8 pushes around and what I see as two viable candidates: Bluelightz: Gives a town read list almost first thing in the game then gives a strange explanation and lets it drop. Wtf? Pressured, he claims an ability that I just can't see as being town. I mean, lay down bombs and only he knows where they're at? Even if it's legit, I think it'd be too risky to use it. Above all, I think he needs to come here and use his pull. Cascades: He does a pull on Palmar to just to check if he was telling the truth when there was no purpose in him lying, even if he was scum. I mean, it would make sense if he was arguing in favor of Palmar getting his item, but otherwise a strange move. His suggestion on writing down what you expect to happen when you PoP imho doesn't add much and doesn't help. But it's a way to appear useful. This is the strange thing, though: On April 03 2012 01:17 cascades wrote: Dumb role, but if it is what you got, can't blame you. I like Bluelightz 's response. Going to cut him slack for his earlier inactivity due to wife/internet and stuff. How can he cut Blue's slack when he never pressured him in the first place? Opinions? | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
Lets consider him null, for argument's sake. By lynching him we would have: 1) 1/3 chance of nailing scum 2) Better idea of Ceph's and my own alignment 3) More PoPs the next day, given that less PoP's would be devoted to figuring out which one of us is/are scum So, that tells me that those who ended the day without using their pulls (Bluelightz, Zenthor, Acro and Palmar) either: 1) Have a solid town read on him 2) Weren't around at the deadline and chose wilfully to end the day without using their Pulls 3) Are scum and don't want to lynch their buddy Syllo As I said, I have a scum read on Syllo, but I can see someone interpreting him as null. That said, I don't believe anyone here has a solid town read on him. So, tell me guys, which one is it? | ||
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On April 04 2012 00:28 syllogism wrote: Your reason for thinking I'm scum is laughable to a point I don't believe it can actually be your honest take on the situation. How was the vote on BM "thrown away" and "random? To the contrary, my vote/push was well reasoned and well timed. Perhaps the concept of time zones is foreign to you, even after I pointed it out, or are you being malignantly ignorant? There was no consensus, a significant portion of players had already used their votes and no one was willing to express their willingness to vote wbg/bm when I asked about it.Utter garbage. This is also nonsense. Not all claims are equal and anyone familiar with how games are balanced can deduce whether a role is likely to be present in the game. While BM's claim is no neutral survivor balrog, it is still dubious. Snarfs and VE's alignment weren't in question. BM's claim is for now unverifiable and didn't have any impact whatsoever on the discussion at the time. Aside from this, the power itself doesn't seem OP in my opinion. Knowing all this and still wanting to question the claim (and in fact push BM based on it) instead of ignoring it was counterproductive behavior. Right now, I believe, might be a better time to discuss this. Personally, I think a DT check (if we have one) on BM to check his and Snarf's alignment wouldn't be worth it, but I can see some merit to idea. Thoughts? + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2012 00:28 syllogism wrote: Again, I can not "wait to post" when there is a more pressing deadline than the actual one; that is to say when I have to go to bed. The real question is why it took this long for you to actually post. Why "rush" on you? Because there is a believable red check which implicates either you or cephireo. Modkills/replacements in day 1 can happen, which is why I have been against day 1 lynches based purely on 0 posts. It happened that I wasn't able to post on the weekend, but I managed to get in before the deadline. If this is the basis for lynching me, then it is a terrible one. I wanna add that like you (from your supposed "town" viewpoint), from my point of view, you and/or (most likely "or") cephireo are scum. The fact is, I think there are more suspicious people out there I'd like to focus on, but there's a believable claim that one of you two are scum, and I see you as scummier than him so far. The rest of the Town has to figure this situation out. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On April 04 2012 03:09 Tobon wrote: @Sbrubbles: you are posting well, but you need to stop and pick someone else to analyze. Pointing the finger at Syllogism is too self-serving for you at the moment. Provide town with more analysis of someone _not_ in your little suspicious group of 3, and maybe you get reconsidered. What do you think of Bluelightz, for instance? Starting with bluelightz, compared to his play in Aperture (in which he was scum), he's posting just as little and no reads here whatsoever (there he made some fake reads as scum). There on day 1 he completely randomly suggested someone to be mayor, essencially pulling a crappy town read out of thin air and he did the same thing this game. His claimed ability sounds inspired by a town ability from DFM 1, and would in theory work to make it easier for town to get a few lynches off with less PoP. But, since scum have hidden push/pull abilities, it has a terrible potential to backfire. Also, he might be scum and telling the truth about his ability so he can lie about which space is safe. Although it outs him, it wastes a day of lynching and kills at least 2 townies, which would be worth it, especially since he already has suspicion on him. I think he's the best potential lynch right now. Next, cascades contribution to town is nonexistant. He suggests a policy at the beggining of the game, uses his pull to check if Palmar was telling the truth (when, even if Palmar was scum, the was no reason for him to lie), threatens people for not posting (when his posting lacks in both number and quality) and makes a big post that contains solely his defence. I am for lynching him. To not forget, there's MrZentor who was active at the begining of the game but seemingly disappeared (and also didn't use his PoP). I know it sounds like hypocrisy me calling someone a lurker, but in this case he was here from the beggining. Might be a good target for night checks/abilities and a good lynch target if he remains mia and we have enough PoPs. Syllo and Cephi, I think we've made our points. Sure enough the rest of the town will know what to do when the day begins. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On April 04 2012 07:40 wherebugsgo wrote: God damn, I just lost everything I was typing. Long story short: Syllo I think is most likely to be scum out of the three because he has avoided taking concrete positions and defending them. His push was very weak on BM (he wanted to see if there was approval, and I found that odd). Syllo doesn't look for approval when he searches for scum; he finds them and then asserts his opinion strongly. At no point did I actually think syllo truly believed that either BM or I were scum yesterday. Contrast his day 1 here to Storm and you'll see what I'm talking about. In addition, he was fixated on the plausibility of BM's claim rather than whether or not it actually made him scum. If you apply even an ounce of critical thinking to the idea that BM's roleclaim is implausible because it could potentially confirm 5 townies, you run into the same problem with risk's roleclaim. So why then did syllo never question risk's roleclaim? Imagine risk activating his ability with one person on his slot and two both above and below, with the result being no scum there. Isn't that the same plausibility problem syllo brought up with risk.nuke's roleclaim? Cephiro: I don't find him to be scummy at all. I found that he has reached many of the same conclusions I have, and for different and equally valid reasons as well. This is a good sign as a townie. He has also put in plenty of effort in trying to find scum, and has been very transparent throughout. Sbrubbles: He is partly the reason I am unsure about syllo. Syllo pulled him after deeming Cephiro to be town, and if syllo is actually town then Sbrubbles is definitely the scum among the 3. However, based on what little he has posted, I can't fault him. His points were mostly valid (although the argument "we should kill syllo even if he is null" is rather odd, I didn't follow the logic) and the only reason people have called him scum is for his relative inactivity. I meant that if your read on him (or me, or ceph) was null (you didn't assume anything), the lynch would have 1/3 chance of hitting scum (against 1/4 if it was a random lynch), with the advantage that if it misses, you'd have good lynch candidates the next day (and be able to use the PoPs the next day for other ends). I think these are good odds (even better if one thinks he's scum). Under these circumstances I think people who didn't have a strong town read on him should have taken the shot. They didn't. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
Of course, there is the chance that you may be a townie with an ability of the like, but I don't think you have an move-related ability because you could have used it harmlessly at the end of day 1 to provide an easier roleclaim later on and if you have an information-related one, I trust you will enlighten us at the beginning of day 2. If this is not the case what are you? A gimped toy? | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
Dear god, I've got to stop getting into games that start on weekends  | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On April 04 2012 06:48 layabout wrote: Bugs give me all you got within the next 20 minutes! Find the Mafia: cephiro syllo sbrub On April 04 2012 07:40 wherebugsgo wrote: God damn, I just lost everything I was typing. Long story short: Syllo I think is most likely to be scum out of the three because he has avoided taking concrete positions and defending them. His push was very weak on BM (he wanted to see if there was approval, and I found that odd). Syllo doesn't look for approval when he searches for scum; he finds them and then asserts his opinion strongly. At no point did I actually think syllo truly believed that either BM or I were scum yesterday. Contrast his day 1 here to Storm and you'll see what I'm talking about. In addition, he was fixated on the plausibility of BM's claim rather than whether or not it actually made him scum. If you apply even an ounce of critical thinking to the idea that BM's roleclaim is implausible because it could potentially confirm 5 townies, you run into the same problem with risk's roleclaim. So why then did syllo never question risk's roleclaim? Imagine risk activating his ability with one person on his slot and two both above and below, with the result being no scum there. Isn't that the same plausibility problem syllo brought up with risk.nuke's roleclaim? Cephiro: I don't find him to be scummy at all. I found that he has reached many of the same conclusions I have, and for different and equally valid reasons as well. This is a good sign as a townie. He has also put in plenty of effort in trying to find scum, and has been very transparent throughout. Sbrubbles: He is partly the reason I am unsure about syllo. Syllo pulled him after deeming Cephiro to be town, and if syllo is actually town then Sbrubbles is definitely the scum among the 3. However, based on what little he has posted, I can't fault him. His points were mostly valid (although the argument "we should kill syllo even if he is null" is rather odd, I didn't follow the logic) and the only reason people have called him scum is for his relative inactivity. Conclusion? Vig Sbrubbles! By the way, thanks for hosting, Ace. The game had a lot of promise. | ||
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