EPTDeath Factory Mafia 2
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 28 2012 10:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay so...I thought if you "end up" in a lethal position, you die. Do you mean if someone PoP's you onto that spot over the course of the day? I think he means the danger zone that burns at the end of the day. The insta-kill position is being pulled off the queue completely. I think this video might explain things better: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
Let's try not to throw our pushes and pulls around too liberally, or at least not anymore than we have to if we can. That means that we don't end up wasting a whole bunch of pushes and pulls that have the net effect of cancelling each other out because people disagree. Though it's tempting, I don't think we should kill more than a couple people each day, barring anyone basically claiming scum. The last game ended with a whole bunch of people dying on day 2, so based on the probability of queue altering abilities, we should probably pull townie looking people, or people we don't want to die forward a little. Maybe keep them towards the middle of the queue, in case there's some kind of queue flipper. What do you guys think about the item? Partway through day 1, we can decide on one person who we want to get it, and then who we want to push them and pull them back. The thing is, the people who do that have their voting powers nullified, so we need to decide on who would be best to do it to, and keep it organized, so no one "accidentally" goes off the queue. I'm going to bed now. Feel free to post a lot while I'm sleeping. Don't toy with me. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On April 02 2012 01:24 VisceraEyes wrote: At this point, trying to go for the item is going to cause us to not have votes for who we want to incinerate. Going for the item now is a bad idea. I think we should wait until someone is close to the item before we discuss going about actually trying to acquire the item. My two cents. Well, someone who's close to the item is going to be someone who's in the queue, a.k.a. someone we want to lynch, barring any weird powers that moved them there. Pre-edit: Layabout #1 ninja. Something we actually have to watch, is that we don't push people we want to lynch into the item range. This could cause a lot of trouble, if they got something like the swapping power. As well, this means that it's harder to insta-kill someone if we wanted to flip them in the middle of the day, because they have to move through the item first and can save themselves. The insta-kill will actually be pretty useful for things like confirming DT checks, because then we can act on them, and don't have to wait for the next cycle. People who fall off the queue and die get flipped as soon as they die, right? I forget what voting system we used exactly in DF, but it didn't really work, because people didn't all agree to use it, and some people decided to just do whatever they wanted. I don't think implementing one is going to work in this game, just due to how historically, it's pretty much impossible to get everyone in a game to follow a plan. A better thing to do would be just to develop general guidelines for how to push/pull people. Maybe something like every push/pull has to have an explanation. Don't push someone until you make a case in the thread, and hopefully get a few people to agree with you. Same thing, if you pull someone back, you state valid reasons for doing so, i.e. "I disagree with him" is not a valid reason. If you don't want someone to die, you'll have to actually explain why. This will hopefully stop both the problem of everyone cancelling out each others moves, which has no net gain for town besides seeing who they pushed or pulled, and the problem of creep towards the queue, which will happen when everyone pushes whoever, and a lot of people move back towards the queue, making queue extending abilities or mass push abilities a lot more dangerous. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On April 02 2012 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote: There's no reassurance that anyone is town, Wiggles. I'm interested to see what he does with the item, as that will be more of an indicator of his alignment than discussing whether or not he's worthy of the item. I don't "trust" Palmar, but I know he's smart/experienced enough to know what to do and what not to do with the item if he's town, so I "trust" that I'll be able to gauge his alignment based on how he acts with it. What do you suggest we do Wiggles? Wait for a confirmed town before we get the item? So do you suggest we kill BM to test his alignment to confirm myself and Snarfs so that one of us can get it? Does that not seem like a horrifying waste of PoPs to you? No, I don't think someone needs to be confirmed to get the item, but I think that we should see how they post, and get an idea of what their alignment is. There's a difference between judging someone to be town based off their posts, and just blindly trusting them. I think the best indicator of his alignment would be him posting, but he's not doing that, so there's absolutely no reason to think he's town. How he uses the item won't even tell us very much about his alignment either, in my opinion, and that's if he even tells you what it is. It's easy to think of ways to use the items that look pro-town, but don't actually benefit us. I find it interesting that when I ask a question about why you trust Palmar enough to give him the item, you make gross exaggerations and act incredibly defensive about it. I didn't suggest someone has to be confirmed to be eligible to get the item, and I didn't suggest to flip anyone to try to confirm people, or to waste our PoP's getting the item with someone far up the queue. Why did you jump to being so irrationally defensive and using exaggerated rhetoric when I asked you a simple question, VE? @WBG: I'm not exactly sure who I want to kill right now. Based off this last post, and thinking that giving Palmar an item because he asked for it is the most pro-town thing we could do, maybe VE. Or, based on his complete lack of effort, we could flip Palmar. What do you think of Palmar and VE, WBG? I see you linked a couple people who haven't posted and said you want to kill them, so what do you think of Palmar with his one post? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
All the claims coming out are silly. Half of you aren't even under a ton of pressure, and that makes your claims even more nonsensical. Looking at you, Palmar and risk.nuke. Palmar claimed because someone guessed his role. risk.nuke claimed... just because, from what I can see. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I'm still trying to decide between Syllo and Shrubbles for who I think is scum between those two. I'm leaning syllo right now, based on their posting. He's done some pretty weird and contradictory things, that have already been pointed out multiple times by others. I'd actually like both him and Shrubbles to get in here and post more to defend themselves, though, as it would give me a much better read. Right now, my reads on those two are pretty weak. Like I said, syllo looks worse to me, but Shrubbles looks bad too with his complete lack of posts, jumping in on the palmar thing, and then a big post attacking the other two people he was checked with, but nothing else. So, Syllo>Shrubbles, but I'd like them both to post more, so I can get a more concrete read. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On April 03 2012 10:03 VisceraEyes wrote: I pull out ze Wiggle Call (patent pending).... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://a1.s6img.com/cdn/box_004/post_14/492090_12052083_b.jpg) YOU RANG? On April 03 2012 10:00 wherebugsgo wrote: actually let's just get him to post. Wiggles, who would you push right now for scum and who would you pull? I know you said you liked syllo for lynch best out of the trio; what do you think of prplhz and Palmar? As a general note I think we need to keep tabs on the missing players right now; notably, Mattchew, BM, and cascades. Out of those 3 I'm most comfortable with killing cascades. Like I said, I want to see Shrubbles and Syllo post a bit more. If they don't do so, or their posting doesn't change my read, I'm planning on pulling Syllo. I think either of Mattchew or Bluelightz are good targets for my push, and I'd probably go with Bluelightz. I don't like Bluelightz' claim, as it comes out of nowhere, and serves no pro-town purpose. I don't really see the point of it, except to maybe scrape up some kind of town cred. If he's telling the truth about his role, it means that we can't do anything during the day until we decide who to pull to explode the possibly trapped places, and it also lets scum move people there if they have hidden pushes/pulls, to net extra kills. Like I said, revealing his role at that point makes no sense, and serves no good purpose for the town. His other posts aren't stellar either. Mattchew's been somewhat useless and I'd like to see how he responds to actual pressure. I don't like his posting so far. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On April 03 2012 10:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Wiggles make me understand - were you trying to get a rise out of me to further your read? It seemed very contradictory to me sir, and I'd like to hear your reasoning. The wind-up thing was a pun, because we're all toys. It really meant nothing, just like how I ended the post with "Don't toy with me.". I wasn't trying to get any rise out of you, you did it yourself. I asked you why you trusted Palmar enough to give him the item, and you went off on some rant about confirmed townies and how I think we should flip BM and waste all our PoPs on that so we can confirm people. From my perspective, I asked you a question, and you went a little crazy. So, I asked why you went off like that. I'm not sure where you read me as trying to get a rise out of you. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
##Push: Bluelightz | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
If we can, we should put some people we want to check into next to him, and get him to check. We could also 1-1 trade syllo or Ceph by checking them alone to get the scum, and then if the one determined to be scum flips town, flipping risk.nuke. Unless they're a miller, I don't see a reason for them to appear as scum on day 1, if risk is telling the truth. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I'm going to wait, and see what kind of answer I get to this. It will influence how I act today. Bluelightz said that positions 24 and 2 are bombed, which means a point in the danger zone already, and the very other end of the queue. So long as we don't pull people we don't want to kill, we should be fine. The bombs are already laid, so killing bluelightz right now won't do anything. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to see if he's telling the truth, and then if he lied about the bombs, kill him the next day. He also shouldn't lay any more bombs. The point of this idea is to use our PoPs on other people, and hopefully get better discussion. risk, can you please answer my question? Your power is still useful if you pop it one minute before the day post, if the queue is revealed again. Do we get to see the queue at the end of the day? Also, sorry for only glancing at who died before posting, lol. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On April 05 2012 01:11 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm at a cafe on my phone having breakfast (weird for me actually) but this is oddly relaxing. Wait wtf Wiggles is suddenly against lynching Bluelightz? What's with the meek response Wiggles? Why do you not want to see him flip immediately? You claim we should use our PoPs on other people but don't even offer one to begin with. The hell? Bluelightz I really don't see how you could be town. If you actually are town you must be deficient of about 3/4 of the brain cells everyone else possesses, for reasons already mentioned several times (I.e. The position 24 bull) Why do you want to see him die immediately, especially since apparently the OP says that flips don't show up until the end of the day? When I saw that the queue was hidden today, I changed my mind a bit about Bluelightz. It doesn't make sense for him to claim his role, if he had foreknowledge that the queue would be hidden the next day. Not claiming his role, would have let him use his power and blow up potentially four townies, without us knowing anything about it, especially if scum can see the queue. If scum can't see the queue as well, then they wouldn't have used his power in the first place, since they can blow up from it themselves. At this point, we're limited in lynching by the number of pushes/pulls we have to pull people to the ends. This is especially exacerbated when we have people wanting to go for the item each day. This makes it so we have even less pushes and pulls to actually kill scum. So, in my mind, I'm willing to take the risk of leaving bluelightz alive today. If he lies about his bombs, we kill him instantly. If he's telling the truth, then we can get him to use his power again, and that will free up a lot of our pushes and pulls for other uses, like the items, or just killing a couple more people, since we can pull targets to the two bombed spots if they're close instead of all the way to the end of the queue. This would be for people who are not priority flips, but who we think are scummy enough to die. WBG, can you give me some concrete reasons for needing to flip bluelightz as soon as possible? So far you've just been running under your initial reason of him running away when pressured, but I haven't really seen much else since then, besides you calling him scum. On April 04 2012 23:09 Acrofales wrote: Hi guys, I'm mafia fishing for a vigilante so I can shoot him tonight, but I won't be mad. I promise!!! Don't be silly. Firstly, most vigilantes are one-shot. Secondly, if this one isn't, we don't know that, so he could just claim one shot. So, why would I fish for what's essentially a VT now? Next, they need to claim their shot, or else I'm just going off the assumption that it was a scum kill, which changes how this played out. Shrubbles being shot by a vig makes sense, but him being shot by scum has some interesting implications. If we assume that there was a scum between Ceph, Syllo, and Shrubbles, then why would scum shoot Shrubbles? He was considered most suspicious after Syllo among the three, so if Syllo was the scum, then you're only hastening his death. If Ceph is the scum, then you ensure that Syllo will flip, though it lets us know that Ceph is the scum quicker as well. If there's no scum among the three, mafia know this, and shooting Shrubbles makes sure that we most likely lynch Syllo, and if he flips town, Ceph. Basically, it sends us on a wild goose chase. Can anyone answer why scum would shoot shrubbles when there's basically a list check that you're shortening by killing him? The only reasons I can think of, are that we're looking at the wrong person (syllo), or there isn't really a scum between the three of them. This is especially true considering the check doesn't confirm people as town, so lynching a scum out of them does nothing to clear the other ones, so it's not like scum had to worry about DT-checked townies or something like that. That no one actually questioned the kills is concerning. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
##Push: Syllogism Risk.nuke, why did you push Cephiro instead of using your ability at the end of that day again? WBG, are you actually scum-hunting and trying to form reads? I see you saying this a lot and throwing around names, but there's not much content, and it's super nebulous. What made you decide to change your mind on Bluelightz somewhat? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On April 06 2012 00:17 Tobon wrote: Since that point, both BlueLightz and Wiggles have completely ignored the fact that Syllo is already doomed and have now wasted their pushes on him trying to look like they are doing something useful, when in fact, they are throwing their pushes away for absolutely no town purpose. They were both on my potential scum list, even though I was reading others as scummier, but this is both of them completely ignoring discussion and acting 100% anti-town. Please use all remaining pulls on BlueLightz and all remaining pushes on Mr.Wiggles. ##Push Mr.Wiggles Are you being purposefully thick? There's nothing that says that Syllo didn't get a teleportation item and switched himself with someone, or that if he's scum they don't have hidden pulls or a queue altering ability that can save him. It's much better to just push him off the edge, than let him sit there and then we can all act surprised and confused if he ends up living through the end of the day. Use your head. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On April 06 2012 01:06 Tobon wrote: My bold. What an odd turn of phrase, from day 1 before anything happened. Sure isn't following his own advice today, is he? The already widely commented upon attempt to find the townie with the gun. There is literally nothing else in his filter. It's all empty words and waffling back and forth about Bluelightz, trying to get town-cred but then dissuade us from actually doing anything to kill him. Oh snap, he used the word nullify! Are you serious? I can't tell anymore. If you want another reason for the syllo push, everyone decided to invest heavily into pushing syllo today. There's no guarantee that he'll actually die at the end of the day. Pushing him will help ensure he actually flips, and make sure that the investment of nearly all our day 2 resources doesn't go to waste. Leaving him just on the edge is incredibly dumb. Remember what happened to VE yesterday? Now imagine the same thing in reverse with Syllo, and it doesn't even tell us anything about his alignment, it just wastes yet another day. Next, about the vig thing. Please, please, please someone tell me how knowing that someone on town's side actually shot Shrubbles benefits scum more than town? If town killed him, scum already know that! The point of the vig claiming the shot is so that we know that it was really town who shot him, and not scum. The vig is assumed to be a VT now, so I don't get why I would desperately need that information, especially when I would already know the vig's aim is off, and thus I don't need to worry about him. So make an actual argument for why that is scummy besides saying it is. Please, I'd love you to. I want to murder you with logic. On April 06 2012 01:15 Tobon wrote: I'll also note that VE was reading Wiggles as scum. This was his last post related to other people (the ones after were only about his own Pony Powers), before he took the hidden push and burned horribly 30 minutes later. VE was wrong. He had an over-reaction to my question, and when I called him out on it, he thought I was trying to get a rise out of him. He was also someone who didn't actually have any case on me, besides calling me scum over and over. He was tunneling. So are you now. | ||
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