EPTA Game of Thrones Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 21 2012 18:51 Acrofales wrote: Hi everybody! Well, Curu hasn't said I cannot speculate about Petyr's win condition. Remember that this is idle speculation, but I have read the books a number of times and if Petyr is anything, he is untrustworthy. He only serves his own means, so I am inclined to ignore everything he says, including that he is a vanilla townie  My hunch is that he must kill Ned Stark and keep Catelyn and/or Sansa alive until the end of the game to win. And then he pulls an OMGUS on 2 different people in a very short period of time. ##Vote: Acrofales Gumshoe, wake up and read day1 carefully. We already know who Littlefinger is 100%. It is given information. Your posts are yet to actually be relevant to the game. | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
Mayor elections are built into the game by the mod (at least I think so). This game doesn't have it, meaning you would need consensus from most players to get it going. You won't get that, and you would be wasting your time to try. Stop talking about mayors imo. | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
Gumshoe, with both your failing to read the Day 1 post, trying to switch back to policy discussion after suspicions have been thrown around, and calling for early roleclaims I am finding you to be very lynchable right now. | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
After that, I would like to hear your take on Gumshoe and those of us attacking him. | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 22 2012 07:11 chaoser wrote: and a few questions to DoYouHas. 1. Aside from him being defensive, is there anything else that makes you think Acro is mafia? 2. What about mattchew's non-pressure? 3. What do you think of greymist? 4. and can you give me a list of the top three people you are suspicious/getting scum reads from? 1. No, not really. Acro's initial posts came off as scummy for reasons I've already mentioned. His posts since have not cleared him in my eyes but they are a big step up from his starting posts. I've left my vote on him because I think he deserves to be under pressure and that pressure produced decent posts from him. Of course, now that I have explained this my vote means very little. 2. I don't like the way mattchew is posting. It is ignoring the fact that not only does he have to prove to himself that he is right, he has to prove to all of us that he is right. His style is alienating people who might agree with him which inherently reduces the value of his posts. You will notice that I am ignoring whether he is right/wrong, scum/town. That is because I don't know. In that last game I was in with him, SNMM7, he had a very similar style and was town. It was equally unhelpful then. So on one hand his meta suggests to me townie, but I find his style to be anti-town. 3. Greymist has pretty clearly aligned himself against Gum/Matt, and for Acro. He has also called BS on a number of things that I think deserved it. Honestly, I expect more from him (also, risk.nuke). Right now I have a null read, but if his trend of small posts continues that will move towards a scum read. 4. I'm going to hold off on that list for a bit. Partially so I can have more time to figure it out, and partially so I can spend more time forming my suspicions and less time defending them. | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
I agree with you that Acro is probably not a good lynch for today. However, I am getting frustrated with the too scummy to be scum defense of gumshoe. Mostly because this is the third game I have been in where it has come up regarding him. Perhaps this means I am biased and should do as Alderan says and give him time. I'm off to bed. It would be really nice if substantial posts were made by risen and risk.nuke for me to look at when I wake up. | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
You theorize that risk is chainsaw defending gumshoe by attacking Greymist. However, by not switching your vote to risk, you have opened yourself to exactly the same kind of scrutiny. You could be chainsaw defending Greymist by attacking risk. The fact that you didn't switch your vote over to risk makes your accusation that he posted the most scummy thing lack sincerity. Right now I see you, risk, and Greymist as pushing a gumshoe bandwagon while not appearing to work together. I don't like that risk strongly thinks Greymist is scum, but also thinks that Grey is bussing gumshoe right from the start. I don't like that Nicholas doesn't vote his strongest read. That is enough turn me off towards a gumshoe lynch. My vote is doing nothing where it is so I am going to sheep Samuel on Oberyn until I read a more convincing case or I write one myself. ##Unvote: Acrofales ##Vote: Oberyn | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
Also, I think Alderan is scum. More on this soon, I'll get to writing up my case. ##Unvote: Oberyn ##Vote: Alderan | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
First, what triggered my suspicion of him. Last game (NMMIV) Alderan blamed himself for a fair bit of the loss, citing his lack of activity as what he regretted most: On March 08 2012 12:29 Alderan wrote: This was my second post in the Obs QT thread. My inactivity fucked us. I apologize town. I would think that this loss would be at the forefront of Alderan's thoughts this game and since he identified his activity as a major problem, I have been surprised at how passive Alderan has been so far in this game. This raised my suspicion. This suspicion was confirmed when very quickly after gumshoe posts his wall of text Alderan jumps into the thread to defend himself after having been absent for a while. This read to me as active lurking from Alderan. Especially since Alderan stated in his first post: On March 22 2012 00:54 Alderan wrote: So, Alderan has been around in some capacity at all times, yet his filter is a little bit pitiful to read. Gotta love Day 1.... Anyway for those interested, Weekends (beginning on Thursday night) are much worse for me than weekdays, but I still should be around in some capacity at all times. Alderan's posting this game has been an odd mix of stirring the pot and trying to cool the thread off. In regards to Acrofales, he first cools, then stirs, then defends. The post I will draw your attention to here is this one. On March 22 2012 06:07 Alderan wrote: As far as Acrofales, it's always tough to tell the difference between noob town and scum, but his posts seem indicative of being reprimanded in the scumQT, resulting in the change of attitude. Not a bad choice if I had to vote right now. Fortunately we have a little time. He believes that Acro's change in attitude is the result of being reprimanded by a scumteam, but he doesn't cite what specifically in those posts made him draw that conclusion. What I find strange is that Acro's follow up posts which caused many people to back off are used by Alderan as a reason to be more suspicious. And yet after this post he attacks Mattchew for pursuing a shaky case against Acro, then ends up defending Acro after Samuel labels him as obvious lynchbait. This whole sequence makes me think Alderan isn't actually scumhunting, just stirring the pot while trying to be on the 'right' side of early conflicts. In regards to Gumshoe he stirs, cools, and becomes falsely ambivalent. It is the false ambivalence that bothers me here. Alderan's more recent posting has revealed that he has thought gumshoe is town for a while now, and that read is the basis of his suspicion of Greymist. He stated repeatedly that he wanted to wait for gumshoe to post before posting his case on Greymist, but I think this is fundamentally flawed. The core of his case (as I read it) is that Greymist is too veteran to fall for the clear lynchbait of gumshoe if he wasn't mafia. This case was clearly formed before gumshoe came back, and I am at a loss as to why Alderan needed to wait until gumshoe came back to post it. The case works under the assumption that gumshoe is town, and since Alderan is making a case with that assumption, he is biased in favor of gumshoe. Meaning that unless gumshoe came back with posts that looked completely scummy (very unlikely) Alderan's points against Greymist would hold the same value regardless of when he posted them. Then if gumshoe did come back with very scummy posts, it would be easy to recant his attacks on Greymist. So why wait? I think Alderan was playing super safe. Avoiding catching flak for posting a town read on gumshoe before gum came back. This also made Alderan's relative inactivity more palatable because he had already explained he was waiting for gumshoe before he posted more content. Alderan has spread suspicion around on a number of players, but does not actually push any of them. Lyter, Mattchew, Zealos, and yes, even Greymist. Lyter: Mattchew: On March 22 2012 10:54 Alderan wrote: Rereading through the thread, I think Mattchew's behavior has been bizarre to say the least. Everything he has commented on, whether it be the shaky at best case on Acro, or the "pressure" he has attempted to apply has come across a little bit disingenuous. I'm not getting hung up on the one liners, playing with him for the tail end of a game previously leads me to believe that it's just his style, but he is someone who tends to act on more solid cases than the Acro case. Zealos: On March 23 2012 04:19 Alderan wrote: @Zealos: Your contributions to the game thus far are as follows: - Identify the 2 most common lynch targets. - Place them into your lynch list. Thats it. That is incredibly scummy. I shouldn't have to elaborate why. Greymist: On March 23 2012 08:13 Alderan wrote: As for Greymist, I was waiting to say anything because I wanted to read your response post to ensure that I was not wrong on my initial read, and I don't believe I was. That said, I think Greymist is too experienced a player to actually believe a scum would make the mistakes gumshoe made early on. Any semi competent scum team would have identified gumshoe's posting as weak after asking about the mayor, and coached him through his next few posts. Instead Greymist suggested that the scum stood idly by and watched Greymist go blue fishing the very first day..... Right..... Lots of suspicion, but no real attempts to push any of them. TLDR: Alderan's meta from NMMIV suggests that he would be more active and proactive this game than he has been. Alderan's first post and quick response to Gumshoe's points against him imply active lurking, which I see as scummy. The way Alderan dealt with gumshoe and Greymist is strange. Alderan's play has been largely passive and safe, but he still manages to throw out plenty of suspicion. Alderan's lack of pushing his suspicions shows me a reluctance to take the responsibility and attention that pushing a lynch would garner him. Let's lynch us an Alderan | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
On March 23 2012 19:13 Acrofales wrote: I am not getting a scum read on Alderan. I have read DoYouHas' case and it seems to be entirely built from meta. Now I am inclined to disregard meta-arguments except for those people who know each other really well: one prior game does not make a very good analysis. Particularly it seems as if DoYouHas' argument hinges on Alderan playing the same in both games, which according to him is suspicious. WTF. Other than that I have gone through Alderan's filter, and while he does not seem to be contributing much, his few content posts seem town-oriented. My case against Alderan does not hinge upon his meta (which btw, I have played 2 games with him. 1 scum, 1 town). That is what tipped me towards him being scum. I know there is a stigma against using meta against anyone that isn't a complete vet, but I think when a person says they screwed the town with their inactivity and apologize for it in their last game, it SHOULD be a red flag when that person posts little and avoids making cases or taking stands. But let's move past meta, because my case really hinges upon the fact that Alderan has been spreading around suspicion while avoiding the spotlight of actually making a case. We are about 6 hours out from the deadline. Alderan has been suspicious of Lyter, Acro, Matt, Grey, Zealos, Layabout, and now SLJ. But he has not really pressured any of these people (with the possible exception of Layabout, but I happen to disagree with him that Layabout's posts have been scummy). Instead, he posts a short reason why they are suspicious, immediately drops it, and moves on to someone else. I find that behavior to be very anti-town. Alderan is good enough to realize (yes, he is) that if you want reactions you need to actually push someone. He has given no reason for anyone whom he suspects to take him seriously, because he isn't really trying to convince the rest of us. He just wants to look like he is scumhunting, without actually doing it. Even now his vote is on Layabout because he had "been lurking, and when you do actually post it's just one liners or one liners with a lot quoted. You have provided nothing to the town". I find that strange because when I look at Layabout's filter I see him making it clear who he thinks is scummy and why, defending those thoughts, and pointing out voting that seems inconsistent. It is true that his filter is pretty sparse, but I definitely don't find it to be absent any substance and/or scummy. If Alderan was really going to choose a lurker why not Evan? Evan has an even shorter filter than Layabout's and has a poorly explained vote on Mattchew to top it off. Then there is Alderan's bungling of Greymist and gumshoe. There was no reason for him to wait on his Greymist case or act like he was still null towards gumshoe. And even after gumshoe came back without disproving Alderan's case, Alderan decides to vote Layabout instead of Greymist. Alderan keeps going through the song and dance of scum hunting, but he never actually gets around to doing it. Can we please start this game off on the right foot and lynch Alderan? | ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
| ||
|
DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
##Unvote: Alderan ##Vote: evantrees | ||
| ||
