Introduction:
This map is my first finished work ^.^
I had this idea for a map which would feature two "castles", one on each side, and have a pretty nasty middle area where most of the fighting would happen...
*EDIT*
Made some big changes to the layout, big thanks to IronManSC, as well as ArcticRaven, shizaep, and TrueZerG for helping getting my thoughts straight regarding balance issues.
Right now I'm most concerned about the new 3rd base area - especially the positioning of the watchtowers, and the line of sight blocker i included. Not sure how this will affect gameplay; i think it will be either really cool, or break the map completely. please let me know if you have any insights ;-)

Changelog:

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-Ramp from the main to the natural has been turned diagonal, to prevent Terran and Toss from having to wall off with an extra building. Also jutted the high ground out to overlook the natural ramp.
- Ramp into the natural repositioned to face what was previously 5th base; now 3rd base. Also widened.
- Blocked the exit to what was the old 3rd base with destructible rocks; that base now hopefully serves more as a backdoor.
- Drastically changed the 12 and 6 oclock position bases; moved them close to the main base and added a second ramp.
- Repositioned the watchtowers to that they only reveal the 3rd base and one path of attack.
- Generally widened the middle area to create more open space.
- Double-checked pathing to avoid medivac abuse.

Aesthetics:

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Map Analyzer:

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[url=http://imgur.com/lXnRU] [image loading]

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Original Post / First Version~~
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Playable Bounds: <132x100>

Introduction:
Just wanted to get some feedback on this map. Its my first "finished" work.
I had this idea for a map which would feature two "castles", one on each side, and have a pretty nasty middle area where most of the fighting would happen. I think it the end the mid ended up being a little too small... What do you think, TL community?

Aesthetics
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Map analyzer
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Thanks and GL HF out there!

TrueZerG

43 Posts

February 14 2012 02:30 GMT

This is rather interesting, you rarely see maps with such easy bases to take and defend, It would make for some nice macro games,

shizaep

Canada2920 Posts

February 14 2012 05:49 GMT

I think the concept in itself is solid.
However, the natural choke is much too small. I understand that you want it to be "easily defendable" but I just don't think it would make for very good gameplay. The natural area could also use some more aesthetics. Also, with all the narrow chokes/high grounds, I think it's a somewhat terran/protoss favoured map and lends itself well to turtling. Just my 2 cents, see if you can get some of the TL mapmakers to give you some advice.

I think I was a bit too harsh in my critique, as it is your first map but I'm just venting the first things that come to my mind, hopefully you can use it constructively, my apologies. Good luck.

TheFish7

United States2824 Posts

February 14 2012 06:15 GMT

On February 14 2012 14:49 shizaep wrote:
I think the concept in itself is solid.
However, the natural choke is much too small. I understand that you want it to be "easily defendable" but I just don't think it would make for very good gameplay. The natural area could also use some more aesthetics. Also, with all the narrow chokes/high grounds, I think it's a somewhat terran/protoss favoured map and lends itself well to turtling. Just my 2 cents, see if you can get some of the TL mapmakers to give you some advice.

I think I was a bit too harsh in my critique, as it is your first map but I'm just venting the first things that come to my mind, hopefully you can use it constructively, my apologies. Good luck.

No need to apologize, this is exactly the sort of feedback I'm looking for!

I think you may be right about the choke at the natural, and the aesthetics. I was toying with the idea of making the choke bigger, or moving it somehow, but could never settle one something I liked. I do think the natural could use some work.

As for the aesthetics, I'm limited by inexperience and lack of time. I'll revisit once I get some more exp under my belt.

I'm a zerg player most days and in fact the whole time I was making this thing a voice in my head was telling me that this map is a zerg's nightmare! However, just to play devil's advocate, (Terran's advocate?) creep is really easy to spread on this map, and the center expansions make for tempting third bases; the islands at 12 and 6 oclock are meant to be alternative 3rd's for Zergs, (although maybe this isn't viable) and the center has a rich vespene geyser which should be fantastic for gas heavy (mutalisk) builds.

Thanks for the feedback!

IronManSC

United States2119 Posts

February 14 2012 07:13 GMT

The ramp into the mains need to be diagonal for strictly build-order balance purposes. You cannot wall off a 90-degree ramp properly if a terran were to go for a 1-base all-in, so make sure those main ramps are diagonal (It's preferred that you face them toward the natural, not away from them).

The ramp into the natural (from the center of the map) needs to be strongly re-positioned. First it should be closer to your natural because with a natural this wide open it's so easy to proxy your opponent. Secondly, because of this base layout, it needs to be positioned so that you can get to the 6 o'clock base and the top left base in equal amount of time (assuming you spawned on the bottom left). Thirdly, you should never have two open entrances into your natural unless the back door is blocked by debris or rocks. This discourages protoss FFE and puts each race in a very uncomfortable spot when trying to secure 2-base play.

The 12 and 6 o'clock bases need to be hugging the main bases more. They are too close to the opponent's center base.

You need to strongly reconsider your watch tower placement. The current placement is really, really bad because if you're on 2 bases and your opponent takes your watch tower, you're screwed because it reveals your only two entrances to get out. A watch tower should never reveal the natural ramp. That's just too close and puts the defender at a massive disadvantage --- zerg in particular. Watch towers need to be positioned dynamically so that they cover the main attack paths while still allowing opportunities to go around them without being seen.

Hope this helps.

ArcticRaven

France1406 Posts

February 14 2012 07:23 GMT

Creep spread won't balance the general chokiness of the map. Not at all.

Not either the siegeable expand that controls all attack paths (PF on rich geyser, go mech, put 6-7 tanks and a viking cloud there, you can shoot at your enemies while they have to go around the center donut, there is only one possibleattack angle, no flank possibilities, a line of void that prevents the vikings from getting fungaled... it's the perfect turtling position, it controls all attack paths and it has a rich geyser o___________

Some more minor flaws :
1 - currently there is no way to know that the center gas is high yield. Highlight it with a green omni light doodad.
2 - the main is too small to fit an entire terran base inside ; the northeast one has droppable tidbits of terrain behind it - fix it.
3 - cardinal ramps are very annoying to wall ; especially in the main this is a big issue.

TheFish7

United States2824 Posts

February 14 2012 20:45 GMT

Updated. thanks everyone for the feedback.

ArcticRaven

France1406 Posts

February 14 2012 21:43 GMT

This is already much much better. The main could bear getting enlarged just a little bit, though (31 => 35-40 to be perfect) i'm still worried about the easy turtle on the center bases.

An important and easy fix to the map is the 3rd base. Reposition the minerals so they face outward, and widen the path leading to the base. This will make it look much more natural. Moreover, you should place the rocks so you can safely take your third without having to break them, because zerg will have a quite hard time without it.

Pocky52

United States463 Posts

February 14 2012 23:52 GMT

You should change the vertical ramp to the 4th(?) so that it is 45 degrees clock wise, and I'd also remove that side piece on the third, leading to the Xel'naga. I don't think this map actually needs Xel'naga towers, since it is already quite small. I'd change the opening that you have on the third to a ramp that is 90 degrees from the main ramp, and remove the horizontal one. This would make the third a little more vulnerable, but still pretty easy too hold. I just think that the side part is unnecessary, and possibly detrimental. The last thing I'd say is to push in the high ground in the center towards the lake, as I think it is probably too chokey, and forcefields would be very (ie too) good at defending right there, simply helping zerg and terran get some better engagements. The map is chokey enough in my opinion. Beyond that, I think that the map looks quite nice, and has a pretty decent layout and a cool theme.

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