Lord of the Rings Mafia

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DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 11 2011 18:59 GMT

#13

nvm, not sure if i wanna play in this though

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 11 2011 19:44 GMT

#18

eh /in

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 11 2011 20:02 GMT

#20

ive actually been busy so i dont think im gonna be a posting machine in this game but we'll see

its hard for me to resist

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 16 2011 23:18 GMT

#136

From the looks of the OP there will be more than one faction in this game. I don't know much about LoTR lore actually. Are there any neutral characters/factions that might make sense in the context of the game?

I know Tom Bombadil was kind of a neutral figure right? He was just concerned about his forest or whatever

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 16 2011 23:51 GMT

#141

On September 17 2011 08:43 prplhz wrote:
Gollum was clearly evil and the Ents were clearly good, although they were pretty lazy. Ask yourself, would an omnipotent Gollum have sided with Gandalf? Would an omnipotent Treebeard have sided with Sauron?

Also, why are we talking about neutral factions when we should clearly be talking about Voldemort and the Ring Wraiths?

Gollum wasn't evil. He didn't want to take over Middle Earth or join Sauron or anything he just wanted the ring for himself.

It's something to talk about. There's no election so we either have to find something else to talk about or all pile votes onto a random player and see how they respond and what to do about it. How do you suggest we get the Day 1 ball rolling then?

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 00:02 GMT

#145

Greymist straight up asking for the ring day 1 doesn't bode well for him.

##Vote Greymist

I don't think our mod would hand the ring off to an evil player day 1. It's probably with a Frodo , Bilbo, or Gollum if we have any of those roles. So we know Greymist either has a protown power that is greatly amplified by the one ring, or is part of a neutral/evil faction that needs the ring for some reason.

And Chaoser is right. We can't spend this whole game talking about roles. Scumhunting is #1.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 00:30 GMT

#155

On September 17 2011 09:26 supersoft wrote:

Show nested quote +

what? they gave "good reasons"?

So you agree with them, that your question about the ring is scummy, although it was only a joke.
You dont need to be nice to people if they vote you for no reason just because they are vets here.

There is no good reason this early. The real reason is to start discussions. Kitaman just voted for somebody without saying anything at all, at least we're discussing something now. If bandwagons exist, mafia are drawn to them and the more we talk and the more people vote, the easier it is to catch them.

If you're expecting a well thought out scumhunt 10 posts after the day then you should stop because that doesn't ever happen

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 00:42 GMT

#163

this isnt a pm game so we dont need a confirmed townie

the only real use of a confirmed townie is its a center for everyone to claim to

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 04:13 GMT

#206

On September 17 2011 12:54 Navillus wrote:
EBWOP: I'm actually curious, I'm still really bad at mafia and I want to know.

if you're town it's absolutely pointless to claim VT

if you're scum it has a point which is to make people think you're VT

thats why

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 06:19 GMT

#231

TranceStorm has a bad plan. Big deal, hopefully he can be made to see the problem with it. The main problem is that this game is not about confirming townies using mechanics we don't understand the goal is to find and catch scum.

Wherebugsgo I don't know your metagame but here's what I see.

1. begging for the ring in every post
2. vague allusions to why you want it
3. voting for TranceStorm and FOSing him with no reasons.

You're playing absolutely detrimental to town. This is not pro-town play, it is not how we catch scum. It's how shit gets stirred and people always let bad scum like this slide (coag in countless games) because they figure "oh no way scum would act so brashly or bad".

##Vote wherebugsgo

At the very least, if you aren't scum, you are a stellar example of how town players should never act

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 06:22 GMT

#232

On September 17 2011 15:17 TranceStorm wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 17 2011 15:10 Ciryandor wrote:

On September 17 2011 15:03 TranceStorm wrote:

On September 17 2011 14:57 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

On September 17 2011 14:36 TranceStorm wrote:
Debating about who should get the ring and what each role can or cannot do at the moment is pointless at the current time. However, I do like one of the plans that was proposed by a few people: having the person who successfully passed on the ring claim themselves. This way, we can enable a 'chain' to be made - i.e. the first player can confirm the second player once the second player has passed on the ring themselves. This is all dependent on the assumption that evil players cannot pass the ring themselves which as Radfield pointed out, is probably a true assumption.

Given this, however, this plan would probably only be effective for the first few 'passes' and perhaps near the end of the game when town circles become more clear. The risk after the first few days that the person holding the ring is killed, or has the ring stolen (which is a possible role according to the OP) makes the plan ineffective.

Therefore, I think that such a plan should work for the first 2 or 3 days to confirm at least one or two people. Any thoughts or ideas about this? I haven't fully fleshed this out yet (i.e. the possibility of fake claims is strong), but its probably a better discussion than the arbitrary finger-pointing going on at the moment.

I'm not sure if you realise it or not but that plan sounds awfully anti-town.
How do we guarantee that even those 1-3 people can pass the ring in the first place?
And even if they can, how does that confirm anybody?

In this game, only people with roles that relate to the ring should bother searching for it secretly, and if the ring is passed it will either be the fruits of their efforts or a complete accident.
As for the effects of the ring, there is no real way to find out, the only people that know are the ring bearers and mentioning that you have it/explaining what it does is virtually ensuring you get killed overnight in the hopes that you can't pass it.

First, if the players in question cannot pass the ring, then the plan does not go into effect. A player only announces that they had the ring in the previous turn. If they can't pass it on, they stay silent and we are none the wiser.

Second, given Radfield's argument that evil players probably don't have the mechanic to pass the ring (otherwise they would pass it amongst themselves), if we can get two successive passes, that would confirm at least one player. The danger of course is passing to a mafia player, but that probability initially is small.

At any rate, I think it is pretty likely that the ring will worm into non-town hands (whether 3rd party or mafia) given that non-town players will constantly search and probe every turn. There's no way to comprehensively prevent them from getting the ring, therefore, why not get some benefit to it.

Finally, another point that can be made is that the player who passes on the ring and reveals themselves can also reveal what the ring does. Given that every player already covets it, it would be nice to at least have that information.

Why would they have to expose themselves? Given the fact that the Ring more likely than not provides some sort of power according to one's stature/role; any scum that have an interest in it would take the first opportunity to kill the bearer so they could claim it for their own in order to enhance their powers;

and one could easily take it by force if someone claims it after getting passed on and not state that they passed it on as well.

Your insistence in putting the ring-bearer as of now into the open with this strategy is something that merits scrutiny, it distracts the Forces of Good getting at less active players by attracting attention to you if you are town, but I have a vibe you have scummy tendencies.

I divided your posts into three parts.
(1) My point is that the only time a person ever claims is if they have passed the ring on to another player. They don't reveal who that other player is. The mafia don't know who that second player is.
(2) Sorry. I don't quite understand what you are getting at here. You wouldn't claim that you just got the ring. The key is that if two successive passes are done - then we have two players who can confirm each other. (i.e. player 1 says that he did pass it to player 2 on turn x and player 2 confirms this).
(3) At least my plan is generating important discussion compared to the silly banter thats currently going on. If someone else would like to generate serious discussion, I would invite them to do so.

We don't know anything about the ring. Passing it on to scum could have terrible consequences. If we knew exactly what the rings powers were and what powers each player had relating to it then we could maybe form some plan for its use but otherwise this discussion is pretty much off the table.

In the lore of LOTR the one ring basically reflects the power of its holder. A simple hobbit like Frodo simply becomes invisible holding it. But a powerful wizard like Saruman or god forbid Sauron could use it to become basically invincible/mind control/etc. And I'm not sure the ring will have evolving powers (just speculating) but hopefully my points be simple to understand

1. We have no idea what the extent of the consequences would be if the one ring were to fall into the hands of an evil player.
2. We have no idea what the ring even does other than the player who holds it or maybe some other role has knowledge.
3. It is not worth risking getting the ring on the wrong side of the town simply to MAYBE confirm a few players.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 06:30 GMT

#235

On September 17 2011 15:25 Ciryandor wrote:

Show nested quote +

Are you saying that his activity is a good reason why he should be a policy lynch, for being detrimental to village planning and strategy? I sort of agree, but TranceStorm's strategy only means that it exposes townies, because it's easy enough for a scum who cannot wield the ring's power to its full extent to be deprived of it by or pass it to a bigger scum who can actually make use of it if the initial ring-bearer throws it to them, which would blow the whole tactic out of the water. Also, it could have negative repercussions by allowing a nominally cleared scum player to actually take out townies from within.

Considering everything that's happened so far I feel pretty comfortable leaving my vote on the player who comes in demands the ring without explanation, mocks the player who calls him out on it, and accuses people of being scum with no explanation.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 06:31 GMT

#236

On September 17 2011 15:27 TranceStorm wrote:
@DrH. Fine, those are valid points. I didn't fully flesh out my plan as well as I imagined it would be and underestimated the risks.

But, wouldn't it be a good idea to set the rule that if a player does ever pass on the ring, they reveal its powers? We already know that everyone wants the ring (both town and non-town) so I think it would be beneficial to town discussion to know the ring powers. (if they don't change like you fear they might).

That's up to that player. Assuming the power of the ring doesn't change that might not be such a bad idea but then we have all this WIFOM about whether they're confirmed or not and it basically paints a big target on their head for the mafia to hit

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 07:26 GMT

#244

You aren't impressing me

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 08:07 GMT

#250

does your role require you to shitpost or is it just something you do for fun

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 19:46 GMT

#329

It's generally agreed that a 50/50 bandwagon is pretty much the ideal situation for mafia. Actually when the town all agrees on one player that is the scummiest and tunnels them leaving no wiggle room, that is the worst scenario for mafia because assuming town was correct they have no way out of it.

Vain is definitely being antagonistic and the fact that he slipped under the radar for such bad posting isn't a good sign.

People seem to be complaining that we're still talking about Gollum or the ring or whatever but most of the discussion on the last few pages is about a lynch so stop complaining. I'm keeping my vote on WBG until I make up my mind. Vain, Drazerk, prplhz are all people I'm looking at.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 20:35 GMT

#337

Drazerk never said that you're scum because you have posting restrictions. You aren't making any sense and now that you're getting "pressure" to scumhunt you're showing the worst case of scumhunting I've ever seen.

"TranceStorm is scum TranceStorm is scum Trancestorm is scum" is not scumhunting. Neither are OMGUS votes based on bad misunderstandings of what another player is saying.

You said your first vote/reasons were bad. Yet in that same post you say "
I already found you scum, look at TranceStorm." That's some big confidence for a "bad" vote. Cut the bullshit. It's obvious that what ever you are, you're not here to help us.

Honestly on Day 1 I'd be more content lynching a pretty sure SK/Third Party player than some gut scum read that is probably wrong and end up killing some VT or power role that is actually helping us. As far as your posting all you are is an annoyance and a distraction.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 20:49 GMT

#341

On September 18 2011 05:39 wherebugsgo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Are you fucking kidding?

Drazerk didn't say anything about me being scum other than "leaning" scum on me. In the same post he says there are "definitely posting restrictions" when participating in a conversation about me talking about the ring in posts I make.

Drazerk is scummy. I also think TranceStorm is scummy, I don't think my vote reason was bad, I just didn't explicitly state my vote reason. I wanted it to appear "bad" to promote discussion (which I did, no?)

You specifically said this.

THIS GUY IS SCUM.

He thinks, "wherebugsgo has a posting restriction"=he must be scum.

Hey genius, guess what, I'm not scum just because I have a posting restriction.

Drazerk never even once implied that you having a posting restriction makes you scum. So no, I'm not kidding my point still stands. He never said or implied it was scummy. Sorry. This entire quoted attack on Drazerk is based on a bad misunderstanding.

You didn't say anything about TranceStorm being scum other than he was scum and that was it. It wasn't until way later that you explained your vote (giving us all of one sentence of justification). If that's your basis for voting Drazerk, perhaps you should vote for yourself.

Oh I see you're playing bad on purpose to "promote discussion" i.e draw all attention to yourself and make the whole day 1 discussion worthless. Very good town play, bravo.

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 20:50 GMT

#342

but your vote reason on me is even worse than mine.

I figured people would pick up on my bad vote

DoctorHelvetica

United States15034 Posts

September 17 2011 20:52 GMT

#343

On September 18 2011 05:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
My vote is on prplhz, at least now. Let's c if anything new comes up before day ends.

##vote prplhz

Contributed nothing this game so far now just announcing a sheep vote. Explain why. Why is prplhz more convincing than other candidates? What do you think about the gollum/ring discussion?

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