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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
Also caught up on the thread huzzzzzahhhhh. Now lets start my post off with some quality. Foolishness is the lack of wisdom. In this sense it differs from stupidity, which is the lack of intelligence. An act of foolishness is sometimes referred to as a folly Now, everyone is prob going "BC why are you quoting this?" The reason is simple. There is a current campaign by foolishness to get BM elected. Now, BM is an unknown variable in the current metric of TL mafia. I say this because with as much time as he has had off from TL games he may have changed his play style via other forums. He could have "restrictions" of sorts provided by the host to make sure he doesn't ruin the game as his reputation portrays. However the most interesting reason is simply that he has not posted yet. Foolishness is running a campaign for bm proclaiming him town, yet, the man has yet to post as of the time i am writing this. I dont know about you, but I think my definition holds true at this point. Now for a serious campaign. I am running for mayor. Why am I running for mayor? Because I think I am one of the most experienced players in the roster who has the ability to lead. I am a generally a vocal player, and to those who have played with me before someone who is usually a fairly straightforward read. These players would include foolishness, incog (whos sharing an account). The ones who should based on asking me for advice/playing on teams with me as red/being fubar'd by my red play are sandroba, wiggles, visceraeyes, opz and possibly a few more. I am accountable for my actions. I say this because if I say i will do something I will do it. A scum me rarely pokes his head out without reason, and as such I am willingly to put spotlight on myself at all times to keep the town assured of my alignment. I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like. (I have already done this with foolishness, he knows better). I will actively harass lurkers to play in this game as opposed to lurking, failure to begin playing will result in advocacy of vig shots. In short I will lead. As opposed to letting the town run around under the reigns of a player not used to being put in the position to lead I am willing to do so. This also helps keep me alive as I will be a high priority mafia night target. They know I am coming for them, and I will not stop until they die. Vote for BC, vote for accountable and vocal leadership. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On January 13 2012 16:26 Bill Murray wrote: the one thing I'm taken aback about is whether or not Foolishness would buddy me this early as mafia from what I've seen of Foolishness, when he's mafia, he likes to sit back until day 2 I don't believe this is his scum game, but I'm only leaning on him I have a legitimate towntell from someone else moot point overall, his town play and scumplay is almost always "inactiveish" till day 2-3 when he starts to actively post. Changing this behaviour would be normal given his history of dying early in games. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On January 13 2012 16:56 bumatlarge wrote: BC if you hang foolishness I'll consider voting you. But you have to promise to be superactive, not Mr, oh I'm BC and I 'm just gonna come in on day 3 and do stuff. I guess if you are serious running for mayor. Bill has a point though, why would foolishness push bill as mayor when bill hasnt posted? It seems rather neutral, but not necessarily moot. He's drawing alot of attention. I couldn't think of a better way for him to say "HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT ME" its a good way of saying "look at me" however to label bm with an alignment of townie already when bm hadnt posted is sketchy as hell. and yes I have time for this game barring any of the "oh jesus someone died/got super sick/huge rl issue". As for hanging foolishness, he would have to continue being super wtf as his first few posts have screamed. I will also if it is something people want update the thread with my work schedule so people have a general idea of when I will and won't be around the thread tommorrow/saturday when it is posted. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 13 2012 17:10 Bill Murray wrote: It is not Foolishness's game I don't see how it is a moot point whatsoever I am not going to create a huge wall post, and sound like a high school football coach cyber_cheese is confirmed scum in my eyes. If I'm elected mayor, I'm lynching him He's acting like I haven't posted at all, when my post is right above his. To further his agenda, he's attacking bumatlarge for coaching power roles, when in his own post, he goes on to tell power roles to not run for mayor based on being power roles. Hypocrisy, and scum skimming, are just the icing on the cake, however. I had a scum read on him the minute he tried to get a lynch pushed through on Mr Wiggles, and then took his vote back when he realized it was for mayor. He was trying to get a mislynch pushed through for his scum team in my eyes. If he's town, oh well, he didn't even read any of my posts DIRECTLY ABOVE HIS, and he has not only proven he isn't reading, but already contradicted himself. eh? not that I want to start the first huge argument of the thread but. Do you agree that it is possible for someone to change their style? I am willing to give cheese about 20ish-30ish more minutes to respond to you before I make up my mind on him as well, I know my giant post was written as you posted 3 times. If he posts within the next bit of time badly or doesn't I will have him on a shit list. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 13 2012 17:12 Bill Murray wrote: I don't think he's doing that whatsoever if it's not a reaction test, I'll eat my shoe Always possible, but pushing you for mayor is a fairly strong reaction test and links the two of you near at the hip from game start which is insanely uncharacteristic of him. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
On January 13 2012 17:15 sandroba wrote: Also we need to consolidate our candidates. If everyone and their mother runs for election mafia can EASILY get whoever they want elected due to spreading of votes. So if you are running just because it's "standard" for you to run or you don't trust Y or Z please step down and take the time to analise the handful of candidates that actually have a shot and can make a difference. Having the town's best interest in mind does not mean necessarily running yourself. Anyone who is not actively posting/scumhunting/etc... who is running for election by the end of the first 16-18 hour period (only saying this long as the game started at a lateish period for alot of people) then their candidacy should be invalidated as they are not actively participating in a level that is expected from our elected officials. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 13 2012 21:52 Toadesstern wrote: am I the only one who thinks BC's campaign is a little weird? I'm reading page 25 right now and I can't stop thinking about it. It feels off for some reason imo. I can't really put it down to something but although he said he's going to be accountable and vocal it doesn't feel like like townie-BC from the 80 player game. I voted him back than because I thought he's townie in that game and a lot of people said it's too dangerous to vote him because it's an instant-lose if he's scum. He answered a lot he made reasonable posts and everything he posted looked townish while I got the feeling he's trying to pretend to be town this game. Just take the part about foolishness for example. Sure foolishness is weird and someone has to point that out alright but I don't like that part at all: Sounds like "hey guys, see this? I am totally town! I put some effort in this and got pro-town things rolling". Does he really have to point out he's doing good? I'd like people to judge him on what he's doing themselves. Could be nothing at all but as mentioned I got a weird feeling when reading his posts and to me it's nothing like the last game I saw him play. Other than that: Still on page 25, still reading, still don't like palmar's post. However I actually like VE's post a lot but doubt that he's going to be mayor. He's putting some effort into this game and I don't think that that's his mafia-play at all. As you are really the only person to respond to me about my campaign I am delighted to respond and hopefully remove your doubts of me. As you point out my post is "weird". You make note of how I am "pointing out that i am good". Rather I am pointing out I will be active. There is an extreme difference and anyone who has seen responsibility will know what I mean as I pretty well was inactive and posted the bare minimum. As for the "i voted last time because people said hes took dangerous and insta lose if hes scum" you are missing the core bit of that game where I actively argued with people over fear mongering as what someones potential alignment is without a solid reason (no analysis) is not a valid reason to deny votes. This has not happened this game as everyone thus far seems to be running on their own merit as opposed to talking down fellow candidates. As for the current thread. Palmar makes On January 13 2012 18:34 Palmar wrote: I have no intentions of running for mayor or caring much about the mayor elections. I'm probably going to be voting VisceraEyes, depending on how dumb he will be through the day. statement. The last big game that was run Palmar got mayor and I got sheriff. Palmar hardcore ran that game, and invested a huge amount of his time into the game. For him to outright say "i have no intention of running for mayor" he would have been able to stop and seem like a fine post. But continuing with "or caring much about mayor elections" is where he comes off horribly wrong. He as shown in the past to care heavily about elections and the active pushing for towns to succeed. He then throws his support behind a player based on "how dumb they might be" over a reason like "I believe x is a solid candidate" or "I am voting for x because i believe they have solid scum hunting" etc.... It comes off as very curt and unlike the palmar I have personally played with in the past. On January 13 2012 18:25 Cyber_Cheese wrote: I'm reading through and commenting on peoples play, yes. It was to draw out some reasons behind actions and thoughts that I'm trying to understand the motivation behind. At the time I was making that post, you hadn't posted. I made a joke about lynching Wiggles. Bum looked like he was ready to focus the elections around power roles. I was discouraging that situation. Making up your mind on someone not even a quarter of the way into the first day? Seems legit. Yes, being bad at scumplay isn't inspiring. I haven't shown off my town prowess on this forum yet, so I don't have any epic winning streaks to brag about. Suffice it to say votes on me aren't misplaced. Everyone *should* be active in theory, but things can come up, and I guarentee that won't happen with me Scum will run for mayor, and more than likely they will be scummier than most of town. If we inspect the candidates closely, we can easily discern at least one. wtf is this post? Your post is nothing if not confrontational without saying anything important. You attack someone earlier for not adding things to the discussion of the thread however you fail to do so here. You want to be elected yet your primary posting style at the moment is to make a massive quote post with 1 line explaining your take on a specific quote. In some cases, 1 word. This is not the behaviour indicative of someone the town would want to lead them. To quote you "I haven't shown off my town prowess on this forum yet, so I don't have any epic winning streaks to brag about. Suffice it to say votes on me aren't misplaced" As the way you are playing now all votes on your are misplaced. You are not posting in a manner that is inherently decent. You are not posting frequently with decent contented posts to get a solid read on you. You are not actively attempting to assert a mark on the role that puts you in a spotlight for good reasons. You are in a spotlight because you are insanely shifty in the eyes of many players. EVERYONE should not be voting cybercheese unless he turns his game around now. Even if he is townie and he is insanely good he should know that his posts at the moment are terrible and are not ones that indicate the qualities someone who would be a good leader. As for my take on the other candidates. At the moment I am willing to get behind either meapak, BM, or bumatlarge. of the current people running, each of them has shown they can be active, make intelligent posts, and have clear ones that help get a general read on them. Everyone should be giving their take on who of the current candidates would make the best mayor. This way we can lower the total people "running" by taking the top 3 or 4 choices and voting as opposed to having 7-8 people running. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 14 2012 02:31 VisceraEyes wrote: BC, if you're town I think you'd make a fine Mayor - especially if you're as active as you've been so far this game. My issue with you is solely based on meta - you like most of the other vets tend to not play until D3 when information is high and chance for mistakes is low. There's NOTHING WRONG with that, it gets results...but I'm interested in a candidate who is going to be playing the game ALL game...not just D3 on. Eh? in smaller games with a core group of players where they are decent enough to dodge a solid read until d3 is why at least I typically am not active till then. However. In larger games right from the getgo you have to be active. More new people, more people to hide in (as such people tend to slip up more as there is a level of security). As such by being active now and analyzing and calling people out you can snag them early or catch someone before they start getting coached by their team if red. This is something I like doing if at all possible. I do appreciate your concern so I would levy you this question. Provided I do everything I said I will in my campaign post, as well as continue being active all through day 1 (as thats all we have to vote on) would you be willing to vote for me? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 14 2012 02:30 Mattchew wrote: BC who are you voting for, and Look at palmars play in mr wiggles mafia, I think he is trolling and fucking around so that he doesnt get killed by mafia. The last 2 I played with him he's gotten a raw deal for being good at town. Everyone who is good at this game can get shafted 1 game to another. It sucks but it happens. We all have off games, we all have games where we make the right calls and at least some of them turn up offing a bad townie instead of a red. Being good and getting shafted will happen and should not make you bitter and apathetic. If that mindset was one you carried based off past experiences I would say don't sign up as it is only detrimental to the town. As for who I am voting for? I already said which 3 candidates I most like at this moment and am going to wait till farther into the day to decide. One of the others may rise up and impress me, one of the 3 i mentioned may post and get on my radar etc.... | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 14 2012 02:55 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Yes it's less helpful than it could be. That does not mean there was no content. Bill Murray needs to explain his read, and why it convinced him so much for starters. BC, who would you vote for right now and why? Moreover, who would you lynch, and why? It is a style of posting that does not, in my opinion, warrant the gain of mayor or pardoner. If the only style of posts you are able to make are the type you are then nothing seperates you from how say, ggq is posting. In my experience and my own thoughts, a leader should be a strong prominent poster. This means everyone has a ton of information on you based on your actions that in some cases could be scum reads or town based on how your opinion lines up (did your analysis snag a green not red, etc...) A leader has to be contributing in a way that puts them above and behind that of your average player and puts the strain to always perform on them. As for who i would vote for, already answered although I havent chosen which of the 3. For lynch at the moment? I have you, palmar and gqq on my initial list, but with such a small amount of time passed no one has posted enough to get a solid read on. I do expect more out of incog at this point in time however. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 14 2012 02:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Absolutely - I've made my concerns for you known and if you prove them to be unfounded then I'll absolutely support your bid. What's it going to take to get your support for mine?  Stay consistent in what you promised and "out perform" the other 3 i have listed in that regards. You are a newer name and I know you are more easily manipulated than myself or the other 3 i listed. However, if you can prove to me via actions that you care more about the town than the other candidates I would vote for you. Active players are key for the elected roles, experience is also a huge bonus, but just having someone who will not jump out for a few days doesn't help anyone. In that you were correct. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7875 Posts
Read this post fully before posting. It is something that everyone must read, and that everyone must comment on That is right friends, this post as I am writing it is near one of the most important posts of this game day. You are going to ask? Why BC? Simple. I am about to do something that will cause people to yell and scream at me. I am roleclaiming. I am mason Note what I have done? I have now put myself from the statistical chance of flipping a town aligned role of 80%ish and lowered it to a solid 50%. I am now either 50% red or 50% blue. I am doing this for a few reasons. 1) in this game there could exist masons on both sides of the equation. As such dealing with them early is key as they work behind the scenes of the game. 2) it is a confirmable role, stress this point, ROLE. I can confirm my role at the beginning of a day cycle as opposed to at the end of a day cycle 3) I am being transparent. By giving this information now, reading me becomes far easier. There will never be the "is he blue trying to breadcrumb etc..?" 4) goes along with 3, however it outs one of the masons now. It stops the discussion later of people discussing all the people who are masons and who is believable late game whereas we can cover at least one of them now This also sets the town up in a very advantageous way. Why you ask? I am elected and now town knowingly knows I am active in pms. I am not elected and not auto lynched by mayor and same information is known. It also forces the mafia to deal with me as they have no idea what I am doing in pm land. Do they try and kill who I am talking to? Do they use their own masons and attempt to find out what I have said, etc.... This I feel is the most advantageous day 1 use of my ability. I have already used my mason use for the day and will say who I used it on after this post in the nearish future. I am leaving who it is out as the purpose is to generate discussion on my claim, not on who I chose to mason to. As to detail of why I did this aside from the general points I made? Everyone will have an opinion on this claim. Some good, some bad. People will have to have an opinion on this subject however. EVERYONE will have an opinion. Do not just post "wtf bc you dumb fuck why would you do this". This is a debate about me specifically being a mason and if I should be elected, not elected and lynched, or not elected and left for the mafia to deal with me. All vets, all new players, all semi experienced players will have an opinion and it is needed. Anyone who fails to properly contribute on this matter. I have thought this claim out and realize that generally claiming day 1 is bad, however I feel at least with this mechanic and how it could be abused it should be discussed (especially with a high profile player such as myself possessing it) now and not later. On the most important note that this post will do however is generate serious discussion. How do you all wish to proceed with a mason claim? Specifically my mason claim? | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 14 2012 03:39 VisceraEyes wrote: BC, I consider your claim to be scummy for this reason: you're essentially leveraging your role to win you this election. Discuss. Eh? Vote for me on what I say not my claim. The mason mechanic is something that will be insanely hard to deal with late game. You and I both know this from a game I mason'd you when I was red. I wanted to discuss how to deal with masons, however as I wanted to heavily discuss it it would be inherent that my role was in fact mason. It is easier to just claim it than imply. I am well aware this claim has actually screwed my chances to a degree of being elected but the annoyance of masons late game without discussing them is worth at least 1 person forcing the topic now. If i don't get elected because of it, so be it. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 14 2012 03:49 Jayjay54 wrote: I don't get it, BC. Why now? From what I read here, you were on top of quite some voting lists, including mine? So why would you roleclaim when your campaign was good enough on its own. Also, I'd like to line up with VE here. There's seriously nothing that says "I am town" here. Or would you consider your claim a bad play if you were scum? Therefore, I am glad that I didn't vote yet, because if I had, I had to unvote. Sceptical now. Being a mayor or sheriff whereas would rock does not outweigh what masons in generally can fuck up later in the game. I am one of whatever the end number is. If i don't get elected fine, however, is making everyone aware of at least one of the players who is capable of being active in pms a bad thing? As opposed to just saying "wow now your scummy" Discuss how we want to operate around masons, pros, cons, etc... Of all the roles in this setup, it is the only "confirmable role" but it is also insanely sinister as players can plant seeds of doubt, fish roles, etc... | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 14 2012 03:57 Jayjay54 wrote: and that's kinda what you just did. you seeded doubt. why not win the campaign => roleclaim => comfirm. how would that in any why fuck up late game? the timing just seems off. Because i believe its important to get the discussion with as early as possible? Masons act the instant day 1 begins. Whereas all other roles act at night in the exception of a jack using their mason ability (i believe). This claim where "ill timed" only puts me at risk to a day 1 lynch to confirm my alignment. My role is confirmable. I can help assist the town via same actions I would do as a leader without the elected position, and with my claim mafia now has a hard time dealing with me. HOW as a group, do we want to deal with all masons as a whole? I say this as simply put. Not everyone is going to be a mason. Anyone could be mason'd. With a role that is potentially in the hands of both scum and town alike we need to discuss this now. Anyone who has seen me play before recognizes my stance on role does not = alignment, and with a powerful role like mason this shit has to be dealt with sooner rather than later. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 14 2012 03:58 VisceraEyes wrote: BC: Well, obviously you're no GF this game, because you claimed a confirmable role. Unless I'm mistaken, scum can't be mason AND GF, yes? DT checks will be accurate on you...so there's that. Confirming your alignment, in my opinion, should be paramount because I find it EXTREMELY likely that you would have elected to be mason on the scum team (for reasons that should be obvious to you and several others.) What's your plan on confirming your role? Are you going to out who you've masoned with? Are you going to let them do it at their own pace? I will out my first mason shortly, I want the debate to however move towards how to deal with masons as a whole. I say this because you know from experience with me just how subtle a touch can be needed to manipulate/confuse someone. A mafia mason will have the experience of a team in manipulation whereas a town member has their own ability to run with. On January 14 2012 04:01 Toadesstern wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 14 2012 03:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The Day 1 Important Discussion Post #1 Read this post fully before posting. It is something that everyone must read, and that everyone must comment on That is right friends, this post as I am writing it is near one of the most important posts of this game day. You are going to ask? Why BC? Simple. I am about to do something that will cause people to yell and scream at me. I am roleclaiming. I am mason Note what I have done? [1] I have now put myself from the statistical chance of flipping a town aligned role of 80%ish and lowered it to a solid 50%. I am now either 50% red or 50% blue.[/1.] I am doing this for a few reasons. [2] 1) in this game there could exist masons on both sides of the equation. As such dealing with them early is key as they work behind the scenes of the game. [/2] [3] 2) it is a confirmable role, stress this point, ROLE. I can confirm my role at the beginning of a day cycle as opposed to at the end of a day cycle [/3] 3) I am being transparent. By giving this information now, reading me becomes far easier. There will never be the "is he blue trying to breadcrumb etc..?" [4] 4) goes along with 3, however it outs one of the masons now. It stops the discussion later of people discussing all the people who are masons and who is believable late game whereas we can cover at least one of them now [/4] This also sets the town up in a very advantageous way. Why you ask? I am elected and now town knowingly knows I am active in pms. I am not elected and not auto lynched by mayor and same information is known. [5] It also forces the mafia to deal with me as they have no idea what I am doing in pm land. Do they try and kill who I am talking to? Do they use their own masons and attempt to find out what I have said, etc....[/5] This I feel is the most advantageous day 1 use of my ability. I have already used my mason use for the day and will say who I used it on after this post in the nearish future. I am leaving who it is out as the purpose is to generate discussion on my claim, not on who I chose to mason to. As to detail of why I did this aside from the general points I made? Everyone will have an opinion on this claim. Some good, some bad. People will have to have an opinion on this subject however. EVERYONE will have an opinion. Do not just post "wtf bc you dumb fuck why would you do this". This is a debate about me specifically being a mason and if I should be elected, not elected and lynched, or not elected and left for the mafia to deal with me. All vets, all new players, all semi experienced players will have an opinion and it is needed. Anyone who fails to properly contribute on this matter. I have thought this claim out and realize that generally claiming day 1 is bad, however I feel at least with this mechanic and how it could be abused it should be discussed (especially with a high profile player such as myself possessing it) now and not later. On the most important note that this post will do however is generate serious discussion. How do you all wish to proceed with a mason claim? Specifically my mason claim? 1) That's obviously bullshit. The chances to win lottery aren't 50% because you either win or you don't... but I see what you want to tell us 2) why? 3) no it's not. You're masoning someone. That someone is going to tell us if you masoned him. If you are a mafia you could tell us you masoned a mafiabuddy and of course your buddy will tell everyone you pm'ed him. 4) I don't realy care about what's going to happen with discussion later on if whatever might happen. I want to get a town mayor right now and for that reason I'd much rather see things tell give me something on your alignment than something that might or might not improve future-world 5) I'm pretty sure mafia will have to deal with you no matter what. That is if you're town. It's not like mafia is going not kill you because they think you might be a green instead of a blue and therefor you're no threat to them. Incorrect for you good sir. my role unlike anyone elses is confirmable. However my role is able to appear on both town and mafia sides thus rather than claiming "i am townie" and having the 80ish% chance of being one of the townie i am now firmly 50/50. My role is confirmable, my alignment isn't. You can clearly say "you were either 1 or the other before" however I have removed fake claiming almost entirely. Mafia do not benefit from me fake claiming this, nor do town. as for how I can confirm my role at the start? I mason at the beginning of a cycle not the end. As for saying its not confirmable? If i am a generic red and claim mason my mafia buddy says i masoned him. I die flip mafia goon he fucking dies. The only people who in their right mind would claim mason, are mason. As for also saying im not transparent? You know my role, I am even trying to discuss the role itself. If you do not care about the possible damages of a mafia mason late game and only care about the now then you are not playing in the best interests of this town. You must always look ahead. If there are roles that could potentially fuck town two days from now that wouldn't have if we talked about them today then we talk about it today. Period. as for mafia dealing with me? Say for arguments sake, there are 4 masons and 1 is red. I don't get elected and am not lynched by mayor. Mafia now has the option of killing me and thus reducing the number of people they can hide amongst and masons are confirmable. By claiming, town will always be analyzing me and determining if i am red or blue and choose to off me based on it. Mafia have the risk of killing me early and thus potentially outing one of their own early on or leaving me alone and hope the town ignores me. The longer I live the more benefit i am to the town and if i die by mafia shot I out one of their own slightly faster. Now. How do people wish to deal with masons as a whole? Do all discussions made get posted in thread? Do we opt to not talk to people who mason you, etc... This is an important matter, move just passed my personal claim and look at the role as a whole. Here is a link to a thread where masons were discussed before to get an idea why I think its important to discuss. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=278946 the situation proposed there is obviously different from this game but the important none the less. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On January 14 2012 04:02 EchelonTee wrote: @jay, it was a posting mistake, that would be a pretty sorry way to try and get town credit. I have spreadsheets and stuff, which is where it came from. its not good practice imo to post tells without substantiation, thus I would've rather not posted that tidbit. And what's with the -mafia tag, is that just a dig at my post? I don't like foolishness but that doesn't mean bm is bad. will return to this again later. Current opinion on BC: wouldn't it have been better to get elected then mason one of your bodyguards? To get a tell on them? You already had a good shot at getting elected... I don't see as this scum though, more like a weird gambit. Posted from phone, will post more later. why would I wait that long? I am able to use my ability at the start of a day cycle and have it last into the night I believe. The more use I get from it the better. However, keep in mind if I have been mason'd this long, everyone else who can mason also most likely has. I also get the names of the bgs very late into the night or into the next day (or start of day 2) based on if the mafia opt to sub into the bgs. | ||
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