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Active: 1165 users

[M] (2) TPW Cascade

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-20 21:37:11
July 19 2011 09:25 GMT
#1
[M] (2) TPW Cascade (EU & US)

[image loading]


Overview

map: Cascade
players: 2
size: 134x112
nat2nat distance: 119.7 AU
XWT: 1

Concept: Compact map with various expansion patterns and paths.

Visual design inspriration: Ireland, Siberian Tundra, Norwegian Fjell, Ico, Rohan

Thanks: to all TPW guys for their feedback, support and testing


Overview Images

+ Show Spoiler [overview] +
[image loading]

[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler [analyzer images] +
[image loading]

[image loading]



Concept

+ Show Spoiler [Idea] +

The map offers several options of possible expansions on cascading cliff levels. The circular positioned bases surrounding a central area with a single XWT are connected with multiple paths.

From the main and natural base the map allows two directions to expand: A third base separated from the natural base with a small lowground leads into a fourth base on highround, while a backdoor that is easy to control allows to take a 1gas + 7mineral base early or as third base that is savely situated in front of the main and connects to a close alternative fourth that is tucked back between main and the highround fourth. Depending on who has control of which of the high-ground expos and based on the expansion patterns chosen by the players, different interesting map splits will emerge.

This provides varying game situations and descision making depending on the players' expansions to provide entertaing matches.

While the map uses many level changes, ramps and chokes, several areas are very wide and connected by multiple paths to create a balanced playground for all three races, e.g. Protoss can be strong in the low ground area between natural and third expansion, but the third can also be attacked through two much wider paths.

The bases are distributed in very similar distances all over the map in order not to promote two or three base play, but continous expanding. While the map is small enough to allow quick micro oriented games, it is big enough to support intersting macro games with big battles in different areas. With the different options for expansions players can try to push and force the opponent into a specific direction or also try to maintain a passive stance while taking an unsuspected base at the other end of the map.


+ Show Spoiler [Visual design] +

A map should play well and also look good, but the aesthetics should never overwhelm gameplay. Following this dictum I decided to use a custom tileset utilizing various textures within a small color range of greens, browns and greys based on the Monlyth tileset.

The map's visual design is strongly inspired by the landscape of Siberian Tundra, the Norwegian Fjell, Ireland, the game Ico and the landscape of Rohan like it is pictured in the Lord of the Rings film trilogy.

Conscious that each area should look distinctivly different, I tried to texture each base individually. As a result the overview looked a bit cluttered and I opted for a rather uniform all-over texturing that looks very sharp and clean, but still natural and nice. The design mainly uses grass, stone and flagstone all over the map while utilizing the fog to allow better distinction between the differnet cliff level.

In SC2 there are many maps that are really dark and others that are much to saturated in colors. Therefore I made a map that is light and rather monotone, but still full of well dsigned details.

The map's name CASCADE is true to the fact of many ramp of differnet size running up and down all over the map, but it is the waterfalls and multiple water levels that are eponymous for this map.



Map images

+ Show Spoiler [The areas] +
The areas:

[image loading]
main

[image loading]
nat and backdoor with destructable rocks

[image loading]
1gas-7min secure alt-third in front of main

[image loading]
third with highground and LoSBs to allow easier access and hide stuff

[image loading]
the other third also has some beautifull waterfalls in close proximity

[image loading]
highround fourth

[image loading]
alt-fourth tucked in between highround fourth and main


+ Show Spoiler [special interests like wall-ins, creep…] +

Specials interest like wall-ins, creepspread, etc.:

[image loading]
a nice observation spot for overlords

[image loading]
one creep to connect main, nat and alt-third

[image loading]
one creep to connect nat and third

[image loading]
ForgeFE complete wall-in with 2pylon, gate and forge

[image loading]
walling of the regular access towards nat


Zaphid
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1860 Posts
July 19 2011 09:58 GMT
#2
Consider mixing in some more textures, the map looks really incomprehensible.

I'd phrase it as "too much brown"
I will never ever play Mech against Protoss. - MVP
sCnDiamond
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany340 Posts
July 19 2011 12:17 GMT
#3
I agree with Zaphid on the problem, but i would solve it by switching some textures for new ones. All textures you use on this map have harsh contrasts and this gives it a very agitated look. Maybe you can change one or two for smoother ones?
formerly spinnaker.
NullCurrent
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden245 Posts
July 19 2011 12:42 GMT
#4
On July 19 2011 18:58 Zaphid wrote:
Consider mixing in some more textures, the map looks really incomprehensible.

I'd phrase it as "too much brown"


If you look at it from the overview it looks kinda the same. But not every map needs to be like Dual Sight or ICCup Testbug, in fact, if you have too many distinct textures and don't mix them properly it looks boring (example: Shattered Temple or Tal'Darim Altar, too much plain green grass on those two despite them not using many distinct textures).

Also, you shouldn't always go for high-contrast, or very different styles, as you don't want the aesthetics to be distracting from the actual gameplay on screen. The focus for the spectators are not the map aesthetics, but what actually happens on screen. Sure, a good looking map contributes a lot to games looking good, but if every map looks like it was made by a schizophrenic it would jut be too distracting for viewers and players alike.

In this case Samro went for a mountain-ish style with rocks and dried grass, which imho blends nicely into the layout. If you look at the detail shots you will see that they clearly look distinct, with different texture-mixing patterns on different parts of the layout, making it easy to see which part you're on without making them too different to destroy the aesthetic feel of fields and hills with some crumbling stone-buildings.
The Planetary Workshop - TPW - Mapmaking Team
Mereel
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany895 Posts
July 19 2011 12:52 GMT
#5
u like it now?^^
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]
TPW Mapmaking Team
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-19 13:22:41
July 19 2011 13:05 GMT
#6
Sure tastes are different, but also taste relates to what one is used to and what one expects.

When I did the visual design of this map I was actually following this idea of a huge grassy and cold highland, like Tundra in Canada or Siberia, but also like the parts of Middle Earth known as Rohan. (I guess I already wrote that somewhere, if you bothered to read it)

So why should someone put a lot of time in a visual style that is rather low key, not very rich in contrast and flashy effects?

The answer is quite easy and was my actual starting point, when I began to design the maps texturing: Pro gamers in all sorts of competitive games use very low graphic setting, originally to speed up the game, but also to make the visuals less distracting from actual gameplay. So why not try to design a map, that is rather monotone, non-distracting, easy on the eye and still rich in small detail and intersting to look at?

Look at the map in game, play it or at least browse through the numerous screenshots, instead of focussing on the overview image that is rather noisy.

First and foremost I wanted to make a good map, but also I wanted to do something new in texturing and kind of start a discourse on how much flashy, gimmick-stuff has to be pressed into a map, to make it detailed and interesting. The map's visual design is far from perfect - I have to keep that for my next map (; - but I have to admit I am very happy with the outcome.

I hope for at least more elaborated arguments on my aims for this map's texturing and the outcome (in ingame view) - Maybe even some comments on the map itself!


edit: the images look quite a bit more noisy than the texturing is ingame, because the imgur jpg-compression ratio or something.




On July 19 2011 18:58 Zaphid wrote:
Consider mixing in some more textures, the map looks really incomprehensible.

I'd phrase it as "too much brown"


I appreciate your honesty, but do you really think the map is incomprehensible in-game? Or do you rather refer to the overview image?



On July 19 2011 21:17 spinnaker wrote:
I agree with Zaphid on the problem, but i would solve it by switching some textures for new ones. All textures you use on this map have harsh contrasts and this gives it a very agitated look. Maybe you can change one or two for smoother ones?


Thx for your advive for switching for smoother textures, but I have to admit I am kind of fed up with green grass texturing everywhere. You may be right, that the dry-grass texture just is a bit to rich in contrast.
Did you look at the ingame screenshot with the Overlord close to the end of the OP? Is this too noisy, really?
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-19 14:35:35
July 19 2011 14:28 GMT
#7
I... can't find the main. :'(

edit: OK, i see it now
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
July 19 2011 15:30 GMT
#8
Damn you, I was going to use Rohan grass landscape in my next map! :D

I like your aesthetics tho, it's simple but all those bricks are a nice detail and certainly took long to do
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
sCnDiamond
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany340 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-19 18:04:51
July 19 2011 17:58 GMT
#9
On July 19 2011 22:05 Samro225am wrote:
Thx for your advive for switching for smoother textures, but I have to admit I am kind of fed up with green grass texturing everywhere. You may be right, that the dry-grass texture just is a bit to rich in contrast.
Did you look at the ingame screenshot with the Overlord close to the end of the OP? Is this too noisy, really?

Hey . I guess it's mostly the dry-grass texture which makes it unresting. I see your point in being fed up with battlefields on green meadows. It's rather boring to look at after a while. So maybe this is just my opinion, because i like smoother textures better.

I made a screenshot and fiddled a bit in the editor with it.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

In the red circles i think contrast/smoothness is okay, while in the blue ones contrast is too high. Maybe you can just paint a smoother texture of matching color over it to easen the contrast. i guess it will shift the tone a bit, but it should maintain its unique look. I am not sure which textures and lightning you used, but i guess it's Tarsonis Grass. I tried it with Agria Yellow Grass and found it to be quite fitting in 75% Tarsonis / 25% Agria. Might be worth a shot.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Please don't take this as a criticism on your map making skills - you are doing great and it's easy to see that you put a lot of effort and thought into your maps. It also doesn't mean that i want you to drop on the Rohan/Fjord Theme - I really like it. I just feel that you need to wangle it a bit to cater more to gameplay.
formerly spinnaker.
AaronJ
Profile Joined January 2011
United States90 Posts
July 19 2011 18:19 GMT
#10
Is there back door rocks to the main? I think I see some but it could just be a doodad. (My comp has very bad resolution) The map looks good though.
Violence is never an option, unless he started it.
SidianTheBard
Profile Joined October 2010
United States2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-19 18:22:22
July 19 2011 18:21 GMT
#11
You would think all you TPW guys would have a way to upload them onto US servers especially since there are now 20 slots available instead of just 10. I'd like to play this map before I said any feedback. If you can't get it on US, you can PM the map file and I'll host it up for ya for a little while.
Creator of Abyssal Reef, Ascension to Aiur, Battle on the Boardwalk, Habitation Station, Honorgrounds, IPL Darkness Falls, King's Cove, Korhal Carnage Knockout & Moonlight Madness.
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-19 19:42:30
July 19 2011 19:39 GMT
#12
On July 20 2011 02:58 spinnaker wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On July 19 2011 22:05 Samro225am wrote:
Thx for your advive for switching for smoother textures, but I have to admit I am kind of fed up with green grass texturing everywhere. You may be right, that the dry-grass texture just is a bit to rich in contrast.
Did you look at the ingame screenshot with the Overlord close to the end of the OP? Is this too noisy, really?

Hey . I guess it's mostly the dry-grass texture which makes it unresting. I see your point in being fed up with battlefields on green meadows. It's rather boring to look at after a while. So maybe this is just my opinion, because i like smoother textures better.

I made a screenshot and fiddled a bit in the editor with it.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

In the red circles i think contrast/smoothness is okay, while in the blue ones contrast is too high. Maybe you can just paint a smoother texture of matching color over it to easen the contrast. i guess it will shift the tone a bit, but it should maintain its unique look. I am not sure which textures and lightning you used, but i guess it's Tarsonis Grass. I tried it with Agria Yellow Grass and found it to be quite fitting in 75% Tarsonis / 25% Agria. Might be worth a shot.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

Please don't take this as a criticism on your map making skills - you are doing great and it's easy to see that you put a lot of effort and thought into your maps. It also doesn't mean that i want you to drop on the Rohan/Fjord Theme -
I really like it. I just feel that you need to wangle it a bit to cater more to gameplay.



thanks for the elaborated analysis! the two textures indeed are the very grass textures I use. Maybe I should use Agria Yellow grass in low opacity in more areas. tbh I personally prefer the sharper look, but this could be an easily applied fix in areas were the textures are too noisy. Nevertheless I will try around to smooth stuff in a few spots.

criticism is fine and great when it is this well argumented!


On July 20 2011 03:21 SidianTheBard wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
You would think all you TPW guys would have a way to upload them onto US servers especially since there are now 20 slots available instead of just 10. I'd like to play this map before I said any feedback. If you can't get it on US, you can PM the map file and I'll host it up for ya for a little while.


I think I will get the map on US tomorrow!

Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
July 20 2011 21:37 GMT
#13
Updates OP

Online on EU and US
VaySept
Profile Joined April 2011
France39 Posts
July 21 2011 20:31 GMT
#14
The map is great, just tested it with a friend.
But two weird things:
Some ramps seem invisible on the top overview. And the colours look better in game as in the overview (a bit more greenish and yellow then brown and gray).
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
July 28 2011 15:36 GMT
#15
I like the way this map looks and it's layout. Good work
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
July 28 2011 15:41 GMT
#16
is this the new call of duty map?
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