• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:47
CEST 16:47
KST 23:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)63ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play Enough with this crap patch: boring and suck! Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June BSL Season 22 BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Games for Kids
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7711 users

[D] Playing the player, not the game

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Vandroy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Sweden155 Posts
June 27 2011 21:51 GMT
#1
I’m not sure whether I should have put this in the strategy forum the post sort got derailed from what I had intended in the beginning(so please move if it fits better somewhere else).

So I’ve recently been to both Dreamhack and Birdie(the second biggest lan in Sweden, I think) and this got me thinking.Tournaments are alot different from your everyday ladder, custom games and even craftcup, go4sc2(these are tournaments also but mostly bo1 and low price money) and so on. Not only is every match you play a bo3 or bo5 but there are also higher stakes so as price money, reputation, travel expenses, and every player knows this. These factors change the dynamic of matches alot and in my opinion give sc2 yet another layer of strategy that you wouldn’t see e.g. on the ladder.

What I am talking about is the mindgame part of sc2, about playing the player and not the game. To the unknowing bystander someone playing their opponent might look like a complete cheesy noob that doesn’t know how to play a macro game. This can sometimes result in a player getting hate unjustified even though we’ve seen this before in TSL, Dreamhack events, GSL, and to illustrate what I’m talking about I have two examples.

Nr 1. Morrow vs Jinro, TSL, ro32
Here Morrow baneling busted Jinro even though he walled off with 3 barracks and not everyone was happy with how the matches played out. After the games in the interview(see refrences) Morrow said that he hadn’t planned on baneling busting morrow but it was just too tempting when he saw the 3 rax wall.

So in the last game morrow had alot of information to base his baneling bust on; Jinro liked to go for fast medivacs after a fast expansion(delaying tanks or helions), in the previous 2 games Jinro went for said early game, it worked in the first game, and lastly busting 3 rax is really good because you can blow the middle one and damage all of them and that way take out production.

Nr 2. MC vs White-ra, Dreamhack Invitational, Final
In the last game of the series MC decided to proxy gate White-ra(and won) which resulted in alot of upset people, because it was cheesy and why would he gamble the ace match on a proxy? However af
ter the final MC tweeted that he proxied White-ra because he was 100% sure he would win, and who would not do everything to win the 100 000SEK(~1500$) price?

After a second look at the series one could note that White-ra had chosen not to produce his first zelot to get slightly ahead and MC noticed him using the exact same opening every game and could therefore be sure his 2gate proxy would win him the last game.

The point I’m trying to make is that this is not cheesy in a bad way, these are well-informed decisions done with in-game info, prior knowledge of your opponent gained through earlier games or other ways. I think not enough people appreciate how much knowledge and thought some players use behind their decisions and therefore are too early with insults like “he’s such a cheesy player” etc. etc.

What’s the best way to go about a bo5?
There are no absolutes here since it’s in the end all about what your opponent is thinking and who can get a better read of the other one. I will give my views on a bo5 with experience as both a player who has been to a few lan tournaments and also as a watcher of many pro tournaments.

To start off lets assume that your opponent is at around your own skill level because this doesn’t really apply otherwise. Start off with checking your opponents match history(if you have time) it can give you alot of useful information of what his standard opening is in your match-up, now to a closer look at the actual games.

Game 1
In the first game you have two choices, you can either play very aggressive with an all-in/cheese or you can play more defensive and standard while trying to get a feel for what style your opponent is playing. This can also be dependant on map, e.g. a 6pool can be very strong vs toss on shattered temple(especially if you get close pos) and it will also give you a confidence boost to get a fast 1-0 and then you can then proceed to play a standard game on the next map.

Game 2-5
After the first game you can choose to go many different ways depending on what you opened, whether you won or lost, and how you perceived your opponent. As a general guideline I think it’s really important to never get predictable because any build has flaws and can be abused by either aggression or greed from your opponent. Plan ahead on what maps can what build or cheeses be good, how can you switch up your game play. Lastly if your opponent continues to use the same build try to find holes where you can be aggressive or extra greedy to gain an edge which will later win you the game. Abuse what you learn about the player and the better the player the further you can take the mind game.

Last words
I hoped to shed some light on how much deeper strategy there is involved when on the surface it e.g. looks like a simple-minded baneling bust, and also give some advice of my own. Also those who want share your own thoughts on how you would approach a bo5 are welcome to do so.

Refrences
Morrow interview - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203475
MC twitter - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=212772
Uzsibox
Profile Joined June 2011
Hungary34 Posts
June 28 2011 00:51 GMT
#2
good writup. this is what i lack in playing low level plat tournaments. im confident in my tvz, most of my builds rely on z being greedy and me punishing him for it or being more greedy and getting ahead that way. this comes from mostly ladder experience and from my pp's playstyle. downside is that it bit me in the but when in a bo3 semis a guy went roaches twice off 2 base and after loosing the first i didnt think hed do it again -.-. there needs to be a given time when you can read your opponent. thats why high level tournaments are so different. the more someone plays the more his "style" gets figured out and thus countered. best example is MKP for a long time. he owned season 2 with his uniqe play style then we saw it decline as people figured it out.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 14m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko726
Ryung 705
LamboSC2 351
Rex 85
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 33544
Sea 1669
Mini 1055
Light 814
EffOrt 783
Soma 500
Horang2 476
Hyuk 388
firebathero 290
Snow 267
[ Show more ]
BeSt 222
actioN 211
Soulkey 126
hero 117
Rush 109
NaDa 97
Zeus 95
Sea.KH 84
Leta 83
Sharp 73
ToSsGirL 71
Hyun 64
Movie 47
JYJ 39
sorry 34
yabsab 28
HiyA 27
Free 26
GoRush 25
scan(afreeca) 18
Sacsri 17
IntoTheRainbow 16
Rock 15
NotJumperer 15
Bale 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Hm[arnc] 13
zelot 11
Dota 2
Gorgc9509
Dendi950
qojqva795
XaKoH 250
Counter-Strike
zeus383
kRYSTAL_81
edward55
Other Games
singsing1960
B2W.Neo1099
hiko1034
Beastyqt338
crisheroes294
DeMusliM284
Sick214
Pyrionflax129
Mew2King80
QueenE62
KnowMe48
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream20312
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 690
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 80
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis3285
• TFBlade1023
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 14m
Douyu Cup 2020
14h 14m
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Big Brain Bouts
1d 1h
Jumy vs eGGz
Harstem vs sebesdes
TriGGeR vs HeRoMaRinE
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 14h
Maestros of the Game
1d 21h
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 23h
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
Online Event
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
OSC
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-24
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.