• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:31
CEST 14:31
KST 21:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)31ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo23Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted SC2 Planner - The StarCraft II Build Planner [TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ STARCRAFT MOVIE - Last Night at the Command center BW General Discussion Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSLAN 4 is Coming! Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7106 users

[D] Playing the player, not the game

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Vandroy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Sweden155 Posts
June 27 2011 21:51 GMT
#1
I’m not sure whether I should have put this in the strategy forum the post sort got derailed from what I had intended in the beginning(so please move if it fits better somewhere else).

So I’ve recently been to both Dreamhack and Birdie(the second biggest lan in Sweden, I think) and this got me thinking.Tournaments are alot different from your everyday ladder, custom games and even craftcup, go4sc2(these are tournaments also but mostly bo1 and low price money) and so on. Not only is every match you play a bo3 or bo5 but there are also higher stakes so as price money, reputation, travel expenses, and every player knows this. These factors change the dynamic of matches alot and in my opinion give sc2 yet another layer of strategy that you wouldn’t see e.g. on the ladder.

What I am talking about is the mindgame part of sc2, about playing the player and not the game. To the unknowing bystander someone playing their opponent might look like a complete cheesy noob that doesn’t know how to play a macro game. This can sometimes result in a player getting hate unjustified even though we’ve seen this before in TSL, Dreamhack events, GSL, and to illustrate what I’m talking about I have two examples.

Nr 1. Morrow vs Jinro, TSL, ro32
Here Morrow baneling busted Jinro even though he walled off with 3 barracks and not everyone was happy with how the matches played out. After the games in the interview(see refrences) Morrow said that he hadn’t planned on baneling busting morrow but it was just too tempting when he saw the 3 rax wall.

So in the last game morrow had alot of information to base his baneling bust on; Jinro liked to go for fast medivacs after a fast expansion(delaying tanks or helions), in the previous 2 games Jinro went for said early game, it worked in the first game, and lastly busting 3 rax is really good because you can blow the middle one and damage all of them and that way take out production.

Nr 2. MC vs White-ra, Dreamhack Invitational, Final
In the last game of the series MC decided to proxy gate White-ra(and won) which resulted in alot of upset people, because it was cheesy and why would he gamble the ace match on a proxy? However af
ter the final MC tweeted that he proxied White-ra because he was 100% sure he would win, and who would not do everything to win the 100 000SEK(~1500$) price?

After a second look at the series one could note that White-ra had chosen not to produce his first zelot to get slightly ahead and MC noticed him using the exact same opening every game and could therefore be sure his 2gate proxy would win him the last game.

The point I’m trying to make is that this is not cheesy in a bad way, these are well-informed decisions done with in-game info, prior knowledge of your opponent gained through earlier games or other ways. I think not enough people appreciate how much knowledge and thought some players use behind their decisions and therefore are too early with insults like “he’s such a cheesy player” etc. etc.

What’s the best way to go about a bo5?
There are no absolutes here since it’s in the end all about what your opponent is thinking and who can get a better read of the other one. I will give my views on a bo5 with experience as both a player who has been to a few lan tournaments and also as a watcher of many pro tournaments.

To start off lets assume that your opponent is at around your own skill level because this doesn’t really apply otherwise. Start off with checking your opponents match history(if you have time) it can give you alot of useful information of what his standard opening is in your match-up, now to a closer look at the actual games.

Game 1
In the first game you have two choices, you can either play very aggressive with an all-in/cheese or you can play more defensive and standard while trying to get a feel for what style your opponent is playing. This can also be dependant on map, e.g. a 6pool can be very strong vs toss on shattered temple(especially if you get close pos) and it will also give you a confidence boost to get a fast 1-0 and then you can then proceed to play a standard game on the next map.

Game 2-5
After the first game you can choose to go many different ways depending on what you opened, whether you won or lost, and how you perceived your opponent. As a general guideline I think it’s really important to never get predictable because any build has flaws and can be abused by either aggression or greed from your opponent. Plan ahead on what maps can what build or cheeses be good, how can you switch up your game play. Lastly if your opponent continues to use the same build try to find holes where you can be aggressive or extra greedy to gain an edge which will later win you the game. Abuse what you learn about the player and the better the player the further you can take the mind game.

Last words
I hoped to shed some light on how much deeper strategy there is involved when on the surface it e.g. looks like a simple-minded baneling bust, and also give some advice of my own. Also those who want share your own thoughts on how you would approach a bo5 are welcome to do so.

Refrences
Morrow interview - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=203475
MC twitter - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=212772
Uzsibox
Profile Joined June 2011
Hungary34 Posts
June 28 2011 00:51 GMT
#2
good writup. this is what i lack in playing low level plat tournaments. im confident in my tvz, most of my builds rely on z being greedy and me punishing him for it or being more greedy and getting ahead that way. this comes from mostly ladder experience and from my pp's playstyle. downside is that it bit me in the but when in a bo3 semis a guy went roaches twice off 2 base and after loosing the first i didnt think hed do it again -.-. there needs to be a given time when you can read your opponent. thats why high level tournaments are so different. the more someone plays the more his "style" gets figured out and thus countered. best example is MKP for a long time. he owned season 2 with his uniqe play style then we saw it decline as people figured it out.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #136
YoungYakov vs SHINLIVE!
herO vs Percival
ByuN629
CranKy Ducklings229
SHIN 99
Ryung 84
CranKy Ducklings SOOP20
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 629
LamboSC2 358
Rex 112
SHIN 99
Ryung 84
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 20948
Hyuk 1770
Jaedong 734
firebathero 672
Zeus 595
Mini 428
EffOrt 294
Soma 268
actioN 227
NaDa 193
[ Show more ]
Light 175
Hyun 160
Rush 128
Snow 125
Soulkey 125
Shuttle 111
Mong 103
ggaemo 90
Free 73
Sharp 72
ToSsGirL 66
Liquid`Ret 52
hero 46
Sea.KH 41
[sc1f]eonzerg 40
Movie 36
PianO 30
JulyZerg 25
GoRush 22
JYJ 21
scan(afreeca) 21
Noble 13
Sacsri 10
Hm[arnc] 10
sorry 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Terrorterran 1
Dota 2
Gorgc5952
Dendi568
Fuzer 125
syndereN118
XcaliburYe67
Counter-Strike
kennyS2482
olofmeister1616
x6flipin314
markeloff138
Other Games
singsing1660
Liquid`RaSZi941
B2W.Neo692
Lowko479
Hui .322
Pyrionflax94
QueenE45
Trikslyr23
MindelVK10
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream13992
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream2298
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 39
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2439
• TFBlade559
• HappyZerGling159
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
21h 29m
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 16h
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
OSC
2 days
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
4 days
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
5 days
Online Event
5 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.