EPTI died in both PTP and SNMM2. I need some love. I will, however, cohost a game, will that pose a problem?
Also used to love PM games, even when it´s limited.
TL Mafia XLII
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I died in both PTP and SNMM2. I need some love. I will, however, cohost a game, will that pose a problem? Also used to love PM games, even when it´s limited. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 12 2011 11:38 Varpulis wrote: I've got a friend who might be interested in joining, and he'd benefit from having somebody to guide him/converse with him. Trouble is, he doesn't use TL, so PMs wouldn't be a very effective form of communications. How do you suppose he will play in this game without visiting TL, when the game is on TL after all? | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Let´s see if I get a spot there, until then replacements is fine, thx. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I was already masoned and stuff. Let´s see, let´s see... We know the exact number of scum this game. That´s better than nothing I guess. Also I will not be for the first half of night 0, because it´s in the middle of the night for me. Kinda excited. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
I personally think that masoning people this early is risky, which is why I don´t understand it is being done again. Also, tell me if I´m still wrong on the Zodiac list thing, but I read the post where Ace first proposed one. If I remember correctly the whole use was so that
I was wrong on this list thing in the past, so maybe that´s why I am not a fan of this(In PTP it didn´t actually work out, so yeah) I advise one point though, that I think nobody ever mentions: When somebody makes you angry, don´t deduce that he must be mafia. I´ve seen it happen in every game I was in so far. Player A disagrees with Player B´s plan, calls him a shitty player or whatnot, and the reaction is almost always that Player B wants to lynch Player A, because "he is scum 100%". On a related matter, I think Sandroba´s plan is very simila to the Xelin plan in Mafia XXX, the game that Ver analysed. It can work and I will definitely go through with this. You see, to fuck with this plan, the scum have to risk a lot too and it doesn´t necessarily pay off. Sandroba needs to hold the circle on a need to know base. Not disclose all members to someone, only tell the Doc and Cop targets without disclosure if they´re in the circle or not. Theorizing why it would not work isn´t going to bring us anywhere. We have no alternate plan and we have no topic to discuss, so the thread will probably be filled with spam and wifom arguments instead. What else are we supposed to talk about? Doc targets, so scum can deduce who is a safe hit? Target lists are not useful, other than to see who is willing to discuss with minimal information available. That´s nothing else than guessing. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
If there is no beginning, there is nothing we can talk about. Normally the game starts with a day 1 witch hunt. Barring a humongous slip, the Town gets around 2-3 suspects which will all be green in the end. Then we all feel sorry that they were all innocent and lament that we had no information to base an opinion on. Then you scum hunt in the big mess that is day 1. What exactly is the best alternative here? I don´t see the point of waiting for daybreak to "analyse" the nightkill. Because there is no point to it. The scum might kill at random, and if not, the discussion is a huge pile of wifom. "Victim A was most suspicious of Player B, so they probably killed him to make Player B look suspicious herpderp." Ver might have said this plan was rubbish because he can think of ways to fuck with it. Think again, how can you fuck with this plan without being found out as mafia? You have to first get in the circle. So you are known by at least 1 person. Then you have to prove your claimed role by 1 night action. If you can´t you simply don´t get into the circle. So Veterans(role) stay out of the circle obviously. You can´t fake active night roles for long. The only thing able to fuck with this (kinda) risk free is when Sandroba is not only already maf but gets elected gf. This is a huge if in my humble opinion. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
You don´t plan to achieve anything, except that you are able to pressure scum to slip. Your assumption is, that scum buy *themselves* into a blatant trap. And then you hope scum, after you told everyone what exactly you intend to do, will still slip carelessly. You being able to scumhunt via PM is a pure assumption. You are convinced it is so, but everyone else has just to hope you are actually that good. I don´t think your plan is any better, espcially for the part where you tie up half the masoning ability of the whole town. Without any tangible benefit. You might as well get manipulated by a persuasive scum. There is no guarantee you won´t except for your promise to be Superman in PM-Land. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
This is ok, the zodiac list is also good, but please don´t start now with pro-town lists. I´m sick of those. Just saying this preemptively. For the record, the first victim from the zodiac list......At least it´s now a little shorter? | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
So compelling in fact, that I am placing my vote on Ilovejonn to increase his pressure a tiny bit. ##Vote: iloveJonn | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
ILJ announced On June 16 2011 02:40 ilovejonn wrote: (...) ##Vote: GGQ. But instead half an hour later: On June 16 2011 03:09 ilovejonn wrote: ##Vote: Aidnai Looks kind of like he doesn´t want to put the first vote on GGQ, but is ok being the 3rd guy on aidnai. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
2:40 he announces "vote GGQ" in the thread, but didn´t vote in the voting thread. Then 30 minutes later at 3:09 he decided to announce "vote: aidnai" and then actually put it in the voting thread. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
So the most stupid thing I can think: Hypocop anyone? Warning, Hypocop sucks and I´m well aware. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 16 2011 21:12 Impervious wrote: EBWOP - Also, I'd like to say that I really dislike sandroba's plan, and although RoL's plan is a little better, I don't like it either, because we could screw ourselves out of half of the towns mason abilities for the cost of a single red (if he's scum). Another thought: I'm not going to say who I've masoned or been masoned by. I'd advise everyone to do the same for now. Revealing it may be useful later on for scumhunting purposes, but right now it'll only clutter up any discussions, and I'm pretty sure the mafia could use it to easily distract us. A further thought: DT's - if you've found a red, you could push for a lynch, or you could try to look through the thread for any blue slips and find a vigi. If you find a vigi, you could simply mason them and get them to use their ability. Since the GF had to pick his role to appear, I'd doubt he'd pick it as vigi (although you never know), so this should be pretty safe. Otherwise, you could continue looking for more scum, and try to push for their lynch + breadcrumb your knowledge in case you die. It´s not that easy to find blueslips for a vigi in this thread. Discussion flows at the speed of snails, so anyone has ample time revise their post or just postpone them for a couple of hours and they will still be on the same page. What you propose will most probably achieve the following: Our blues will use their mason abilities on snippets and unsure reads. If they mistake lurking scum for a lurking blue, they invite themselves to a nice, beefy bullet buffet N1. Cops should breadcrumb their checks and that´s that. Aside from that, I´m disappointed that votes travel away from ILJ without any reason but prolonged silence in this thread. Look at the low activity. I would strongly consider that scum wouldn´t defend their buddies, but instead wait for people to get insecure about the case and change the vote on their own accord. Which happened, YM did drop the case already. Imho the Sinani case is jumping on townie acts scummy because he has no reads. Not having any noteworthy reads is not a crime especially in this thread where fuck all happens. The Aidnai case is laughable at best. The only thing that stumbled upon me is Demorcerfs first post: + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2011 08:13 DeMorcerf wrote: On page 9: "Focus on behavioral analysis because there is no way to legitimately break the game set up that doesn't come with considerable risk. . . . . Focus on behavioral analysis and putting pressure on people, that is how towns have won games in the past, and that's how we will win this game. Making a plan to abuse format is always secondary to behavioral analysis in any set up." At any point in the game... though I can't think of any logic to explain why they wouldn't do it before the first night ends. Has anyone seen a mafia that waited? Concerning this zodiac plan, I don't think I really understand why we wouldn't want the insurance-agents (medics) to keep as many of the most experienced players as possible alive for the first day or two and tell them not to attempt to save anyone on that list? The more of those players we keep around, are we not more likely to have a greater number of well-designed posts with strong analysis? Those players are the best at putting pressure and stimulating discussion and analysis. How do these plans work though if only a few people follow each of them? sandroba's plan seems overly bizarre and complex to me, I question how much useful and trustworthy information we could gain from it, especially if the majority of the town seems to have already expressed a strong opinion that they will not follow/ignore it. Rebirthoflegend's attempt to mass up mason-partners should allow him additional analysis of whoever does mason him, even if only half a dozen do so. If he is mafia though? I am wondering how efficient it will be if a large percentage of the town uses one of their two masons on the same, one person, couldn't it limit the ability of the town to disseminate information later on should that person die at some point or turn out to be scum? We shouldn't entirely rely on one person's analysis production obviously. Viscera, did Rebirth actually suggest we leave it just to him? Everyone should be contributing in analysis, those who don't attempt to do so are suspicious, aren't they? Second thing I noticed, he seems to be in love with questions marks. Dribbling about without any conclusion and reiterating a lot of what other people already said. You could shorten it into: "Sandrobas plan seems overly bizarre and complex to me. I doubt it would bring us any info even if it worked. As for RoL´s plan, we shouldn't entirely rely on one person's analysis production obviously. Viscera, did Rebirth actually suggest we leave it just to him? " That is the only thing I picked up so far, and it sure as hell is not much. He is with very likely just an insecure new player and town. But as this thread direly needs topics to discuss: What does the rest of you think? | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Keep one thing in mind: If there is a reason for someone to be lynched now, why wasn´t there a reason to vote for them the whole last 44 hours? In other words, any new suspects or cases that are made against people which are not built on recent posts are scummy like hell to me. For example: On June 17 2011 07:47 GGQ wrote: Lynching an inactive is a crapshoot, lynch an active lurker who is skating by with the barest skeleton of contribution. Lynch Impervious. Don´t bring new suspects to the table. There is literally no reason which wasn´t there 10 hours ago, so why bring it up now and not earlier? | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
"I could post a lot and help town, I just don´t want to. Maybe I will start to post more if you kill Kenpachi" Are you shitting us? Why the F' sign up to a game and then go ahead with a plan that gives you the chance of being Superman in PM land and then say "The game is boring I´m watching TV instead". Apart from any alignment, what kind of attitude is that? | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Back to post my thoughts in order: All 3 of the nightkills could be explained by the observation that Blues contribute as well as they can, but lurk most of the time. People told me this is not what a blue should be doing, but apparently they do it anyways. I think this works more or less for all 3 dead people. Or alternatively, since many people lurk this game, I think it´s entirely possible that at least 1 or them claimed in PMs, like Viscera assumes. If Mig did breadcrumb his Night 0 check, then it is most likely Sandroba. If he didn´t, it is likely he told someone via PM. Which is kinda bad since then he very likely PMed it to scum and probably scum only. A thought which crossed my mind:+ Show Spoiler + When RoL claimed his cop check came in, he talked about a cop that is in his mason circle. Linking Mig and RoL together, I think this could be a scenario: Mig had guilty check on Kenpachi. After some back and forth with RoL he decides to trust him anyway and make RoL claim it(RoL is supposedly a hive mind thing, being the target of a lot of masonings) But RoL is scum and had to claim exactly as Mig said to not alarm him. Then scum proceed to kill Mig. The end of this line of thought is RoL and Kenpachi are both scum. Kenpachi was checked by Mig, Mig told RoL. RoL is forced to bus Ken and does bus him in the weakest way he can, so people don´t take it seriously. Then Mig is killed. So if one of Kenpachi and RoL flips scum at any point, that doesn´t mean the other is cleared. So yeah, that´s about the 3 possible scneraios I see so far:
Aside from that conspiracy theory, I still want RoL to shape the fuck up. His attitude sucks big time. Wasting mason abilities and then not doing anything with it is very suspicious behaviour, so he gets my vote. ##vote Rebirth of Life | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
oups | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On June 19 2011 05:57 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: To explain that, I used that PM strategy to assure myself N0 medic protection because I assumed I was likely to get hit early on, and by pretending I was very important the mafia would be too scared to actually hit me, because I was likely to draw a protect. I actually never received even close to as many masons as I claimed. I have like 3 atm. Huh, odd. At the start I assumed your strategy was for you to draw a hit since you are veteran or already have a Doctor at hand to protect you. But isn´t this behavior rather selfish? Lie to get Doctor protection *and* be avoided by mafia hits. On the other hand there is LAL for a reason. If you lie too often, people stop believing you, even if you tell the truth. For you 2 questions:
Bonus question: Youngminii already told us he is masoned to RoL. If you really have only 3 masons, why did you find the time to post BS in the thread, but not PM anything serious with one of your 3 PM buddies? | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
He presented himself as some kind of PM Superman and one or two people actually said he is really that good. And now he can´t handle more than 2 people in PMs? You´re putting words in my mouth. My point is he didn´t PM anything serious with Youngminii. I don´t know with whom else he PMed and I don´t accuse him for stuff I don´t know anything about. | ||
|
Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
Also we are still waiting for RoLs reasons why Hiro is town. I´m not buying the genuine reaction to suspicion. In my last game GM was let off the hook for lynching the vig who shot a mole over the confirmed antitown player who was 90% certainly scum. All he had to say is "Sorry, I take full responsibility for this mess" and everyone forgave him. Hiro could have his buddies in his mafia circle make the perfect answers for him. So please indulge me why Hiro is town. + Show Spoiler + O a side note, the zodiac list seem to be rather fruitless(again) Rebirthoflegend BloodyC0bbler Node Mr.Wiggles Opz Youngminii So far I see 2 trends with this: 1. These people can go by with doing what us mere mortals do. 2. Every night 1 on this list dies as part of scum shooting routine. And the pressure on everyone else on this list does not increase, at least as far as I can tell. Maybe I just have another misconception as to what zodiac lists are supposed to accomplish. | ||
| ||
