EPTTL Mafia XLII
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
Also, ace should play | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 14 2011 13:14 sandroba wrote: @chaos yes, if I'm gf the plan pretty much screws town over, but you can still lynch me if a lot of blues are dead night1. You didn't read the plan carefully. If I'm miller the DT will NOT manson me, so I'll post that he didn't and we ignore the plan. If there are no DTs in the first 15 it's the same. Mafia doesn't know if there are medics on the first 10 so they have to risk hitting me and getting their kp blocked OR letting the plan work. You are assuming mafia has knowledge of this which they do not. If you flipped red to a check you would have to die anyway which means the dt has to find a way to get you killed. I will say this purely as someone who ran Salem mafia. You do not, and I repeat do not, try and organize the blues through 1 person. The room for infiltration/leakage of the entire town blue network would screw the entire town. Talking about how to operate in thread is by far the safest, as well as letting blues act properly with their mason links. Small cells are always better against mafia than one large circle. Especially given this setup. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
To start with. As sandroba proposed his plan and I have already said nay to it. I will move onto something I believe to be more useful. I attempted to do this in PTP but was sadly shot instantly and it was completely ignored. Huge mistake by the town in that game but lets try and get it running this time shall we. Zodiac list time. Rebirthoflegend BloodyC0bbler Node Mr.Wiggles Kitaman Opz Youngminii Scamp Everyone should be watching players very closely on this list. We as a group will draw insane scrutiny from town and as such dt checks should be used on anyone not us. The group of us should be forced to prove our worth to town. It also provides us with a list that if there are any reds in shooting into becomes dangerous as it lowers the possible hiding spots for them. This should effectively keep veteran townies alive and kicking longer while letting medics work elsewhere. Dts should be firing into people who are likely to be inactive, or have posted something insanely suspicious. Medics should protect anyone who is not listed above. Note: This is for night 0 and potentially night 1 only. Past that time frame enough information should be garnered in thread for blues to act properly and the vets to properly distinguish sides. As a general note. No dt check sandroba as based on his proposed plan no matter what he appears as it cannot be trusted. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 14 2011 13:30 sandroba wrote: If I return red to a check the DT can get me killed by mansoning someone else (since he won't manson me after I return red) and using him to as mouth to push for my lynch. However I'm not red lol. How can mafia mess with me? They have to guess my role AND I'll only tell them who to check. What advantage can mafia derive from this? Maybe organizing blues through one person is not ideal, but it's a start. People still have another manson oportunity which they can use in case I die/ they opt to not trust me. so a dt checks you, you flip insert whatever role. They know you could be whatever role you appear or gf. So if you flip red, you could be miller or goon. Dt random masons someone else and tells them to get you offed. Wait, now they have to blind trust someone? Or do another check and hope the person they then check pans out? Dt's shoudl not claim their role early game. They need time to clear people or damn them. They can push in thread or the like without directly inferring their role based on the information their checks give but should not be claiming to anyone this early. Once you can be sure someone is clear you can claim via mason, but not this early. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On June 14 2011 13:50 Scamp wrote: Oh hey I made it on a list. Did sandroba say that it discourages mafia from killing people on the list? Because I'm pretty sure BC said for medics to protect people not on the list, thus the people who are on the list are wide open. The advantage of it is if there are any reds in the list (i would assume there is at least one if not more) that shooting into the list this early on potentially outs themselves. It potentially protects people without the use of a med and lets them instead prot more likely blue snipes. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 14 2011 14:01 Pondo wrote: Why is it more likely for those 8 than opposed to any other random set of 8 players? I can agree with the whole focusing our attention on players to get more information out of it but thats about it. The list I gave is a list of the most experienced players in this game. This forces alot of pressure on us to A) be active B) because we have to be more active we give more information that would show our alignment These are the two most important steps. There are other bits that would go along with it, but forcing us to be active and perform is huge. Finding the mafia among the vets while keeping as many of the town ones alive is hugely beneficial and makes it alot harder for mafia to easily pick townie vets. This does not extend into long periods of the game. It is only really good night 0 and possibly night 1 based on how day 1 goes. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 14 2011 22:35 youngminii wrote: Quelling any form of discussion is terrible, if not scummy. The best way to analyse people is if said people are making discussion, it's very tough to analyse something that's not there. In any case, RoL's plan makes absolutely no sense to me. Who knows, maybe you'll find a scum or two, good luck with whatever you're trying to do. aidnai, you can have my spot on the list if you wish, I don't wish to be there at all. I agree with you in that BC shouldn't have told the medics not to save people on the list, leaving that opportunity open (and unspoken) gives scum wifom as to whether or not they should kill us. Instead, BC's taken this away and is hoping that they won't kill us in case they look suspicious(??). I don't even understand why it's suspicious to kill us, if I was scum I'd kill the vets straight away knowing they wouldn't be protected. Simple. Lets say that of the list, 2 of the 8 are red. If mafia begin firing into that list and say all 3 die. that is now 2 of 5. From past games experience, if a vet ever lives through most of a game while most of the others or all the others are dead, chances are your going to get vig hit or lynched just to make sure your not red. By increasing how hard town is looking at you the chances of getting caught super early is much higher. Town could potentially lose 3 vet players you are right, but mafia ones would be farther out in the spotlight to be caught. If medics protect into the list they are going to, but the extra attention is something no mafia would want this early into the game. Keep in mind I have said this before, this list is only usable for tonight and possibly night 1. Past that the information garnered will be enough for blues to intelligently check / med who has to be one would hope. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 15 2011 04:51 ~OpZ~ wrote: oh yeah....Let's go. I think Night 0 start is kind of crazy. Some people are gonna be all sad face in the morning. I haven't got a decent feel for anyone yet. I'll keep you posted. Some people have been posting a lot though. And I'm laughing a little at my name being on that zodiac list. Oh yea!! I'm up there with the likes of Ver, BC and RoL. Srsly, Ver and RoL haven't went to your house to punch you for that comment BC? =D Eh? Come on you've been playing for nearly as long if not as long as I have. Factor in your experience with the current player base I am well into the right for including you on it. Glad to see that your back in a game though ! | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 16 2011 07:09 Scamp wrote: Follow up aggression toward GGQ with what, exactly? I didn't like how much he seemed to value the PM system in this game. I asked for an example, he provided one, I still haven't changed my mind but I see his point. It really is a non-issue because our argument was more about how the game works rather than anything with the actual game. You, on the other hand, were playing like crap and I got you to cut that out. Are you scum that just got encouraged to play better? I'll decide that in the future. What I don't like is the implication that there is a good way to play and a bad one that vets can't do. While there may be some things you should never do there is no blueprint for how you play. I know you aren't the only one saying things like this but you mentioned me and I quoted you so you get put on notice. 1: You need thread presence to vote? News to me. 2: You're putting too much emphasis on the Zodiac thread. It's mostly just a list of experienced players that BC has seen before. Also I dunno if he ordered the list but if he did I was the last person on it. Obviously I barely made the cut. But anyway... 3: Experienced or no, you clearly have no idea of my history playing TL mafia and what I have done to earn recognition enough to make the list. More to the point, you don't know my strengths and weakness and overall playing style. So I don't see how you should be disappointed in my play unless you expect all vets to play a certain way. My list was in no way ordered in terms of skill, it was merely players I remembered were in the game as I was making it. However guys you are kinda looking at the thing a bit too seriously. It's meant to add pressure to us, but its not meant to make us do all the hardcore work for everyone. Scamps playstyle is not indicative to being the most vocal / active player pushing targets. Can he analyze? Yes. Does he make the same level of epic posts that you would see out of ver? not to my knowledge. You judge us by our actions and how we play not by which vets perform as you want them to. We each have different playstyles. Pressure us for sure, but don't expect our styles to meet what you expect unless the one you expect is the one we have done in most games we play. As for the current progression of the day. Youngmini good pressure on ILJ but its not enough to really push for his lynch at this point. The Post by post analysis you did just seems far to much like a tunnel for this early in the game. His general defense of himself is far worse than his posting before that but the general theme of townies these days seems to get pissed off and uncooperative when accused. Bad way to go but its the going trend. So far the only analysis that seems to have any glue behind it is on sinani. He needs to offer up some solid analysis for me to believe he had good intentions but bad way of expressing himself. I would like to say however that until he makes a post in the thread I will be sticking a vote on node. He didn't post anything serious during night 0 and he has been afk thus far into day 1. However I would like to get him talking. ##vote node | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 16 2011 11:07 Varpulis wrote: Activity level is disappointing, to say the least. Sinani, you posted a joke after all the analysis on you was posted. You've obviously been reading the thread, would you care to contribute? To the lurkers: Please post. Who do you think is scum? What do you think is a good course of action for the day? Give me a reason not to lynch you. The more townies lurk, the easier it is for lurking scum to hide. You're doing us a disservice by not posting. @Mataza wtf is Hypocop? Hypocop is a strategy of not medicing investigative roles. To do this the entire town claims dt, and who they check every night. As people die and someone eventually flips dt you will know which checks are valid and which are not. However it is an insanely scum favoured plan. I say this for one simple fact. Scum have more knowledge about roles than the town does. Scum knows the identity of 6 people. Anyone who claims to have checked on of their number and what that person actually flipped gives intel on who might actually be a dt, making it easier for them to snipe whoever the dts are checking/the dt's themselves. Its a horrrrrrrrrible strategy and by know means should be used. Had mataza not stressed how bad this idea was I would be pushing for his lynch right now. The only saving grace of it is that it will have people talking. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On June 16 2011 12:27 Varpulis wrote: ...except that it won't, actually, because everybody with a brain will say "bad plan, no." The responses will all be the same, so it won't be a discussion as much as an excuse for lurking scum to look like their contributing. God, is that a terrible strategy though. Playing into the scumteam's hands much? RoL, you promised activity and contributions in 9 hours: ...13 hours ago. Explain. Oh it is a terrrrrrrible plan don't get me wrong. But if the options are take shitty ideas to force discussion or let town lurk itself to death theres only one option really. This all being said, people have to start talking. We have FoS on sinani, aidnai, and Ilovejohn. I would like to hear from everyone in regards to these three. I will also propose this. If by say noon EST thursday (tommorrow for me) we have not yet heard from people on the zodiac list assume most of the 3 on the lynch docket are likely to be town or mostly town and we instead lynch an obvious uncontributing lurker. With the level of stagnance so far it seems better to kill someone who wont help at all than those who will potentially slip up later if red, or attempt to help if town. I don't like the idea of shooting active voices with so much inactivity. If the newer players are afraid of posting on chance of revealing their roles, ask the mods who are potential people that could coach them from outside the game or mason someone you feel could give you some help within it. Short of that inactivity will lose the town the game. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 16 2011 12:56 Varpulis wrote: If we can't get a good discussion going, I agree completely that we should lynch a lurker. Would non contributory Zodiac list members be candidates for such a lynch? On the subject of the current suspects: I think that ilovejonn is town, not sure about aidnai, and sinani is either scum or just playing very poorly, waiting to see his defense/actual contributions. I'm not confident at all that any of them is scum. If I had to pick one to lynch, it'd definitely be sinani. Depends on the vet to be honest. So far only node and RoL need to be accounted for as of right now. If both appear with decent posts I would say leave the list as it is and throw either dt checks into it, or give 1 more day to let everyone analyze the group. If they both stay horribly inactive lynching one of them is potentially more useful. If they are however active I would say we get a list of inactives and just lynch one. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On June 16 2011 20:10 VisceraEyes wrote: @BC What are your thoughts on the aidnai/ilj/sinani206 Lynch Prospect? I for one agree with youngminii's assessment of the vote-list so far. I have already said I am not happy at all with those 3 as prospects. None of them strike me as horrifically red and of the group the only one I would lynch is ILJ for basically saying hes going to be mad inactive most likely from now on. With all the lurkers jumping out and voting with very little justification, I honestly think we should be considering new prospects. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
Key two of these are RebirthofLegend and node. Seriously you two, shape the fuck up. Level of activity of node Jacinto Landec suggests we have potential modkills incoming, however if they appear to vote later I would say keep a close on eye them and if they jump on the easy bandwagon or not. That all being said, of sinani/aidnai/ilj (not sure why these 3 are still on the docket but whatever) ILJ has stated he will be inactive which doesn't help anyone but scum. Of the 3 he is the only one who would sit well in the case he is not mafia. My vote for now will still stay on node until node posts and or votes and I will then shift it over to ILJ unless a more compelling case for someone else has appeared. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 16 2011 22:49 Kenpachi wrote: kk. Time to get my shit on. /game face ... ill get my shit on later. ##Vote:Sinani206 Seems to be the only one suspicious Wait? this is your contribution to the thread? what the fuck. You know better than this Serious FoS. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On June 17 2011 04:49 sandroba wrote: For people saying FoS kenpachi, mainly RoL and BC. You guys are vets and have played with him countless times. He ALWAYS posts like that despite his aligment, specially early on and you guys know it. While I agree that he should step up his posting, because he's always useless early game, there's abosolutely no reason for you guys to FoS him based on that. I find that kenpachi, despite his useless posting, usually has nice intuition and will be easier to determine his aligment down the line based on his voting history. He didnt even provide a reason. He has shown is actively lurking the thread not posting anything remotely helpful, sheeping then randomly out of the blue calls the first person to FoS him off his bad posting gf. I have seen him do useful things, I have seen him do useful analysis as town. But playing the way he is it just makes it far to easy for scum to hide. With the game as inactive as it is with only about half the players posting the level of hiding ground for mafia is absolutely ridiculous. He has the experience to and ability to help the town now as it needs it and instead hes not. That gets a FoS. It is a fairly straight forward way to look at it. If hes going to vote properly justify it. Having to spend an entire game keeping someone alive just to determine alignment based on voting history is also a terrible way of doing things. You FoS them for what they do. Are they pushing bad lynches, not helping town, etc..... Is he guarenteed red? no, is he being a helpful town member? No. Are mafia much more likely to be unhelpful? Yes. ILJ, Sinani and aidnai have at least all offered something in defense of their self and to benefit the town. Kenpachi hasn't. He has also gone so far to say he doesn't intend on seriously trying anytime soon. On June 17 2011 04:57 Kenpachi wrote: I can understand how mad you are because most vets tend to have the same response atleast once (or more!) I say BC is mafia because I dont really see the usefulness in his posts. He made a lot of lists and pointed out a bunch of inactives (including you) but really, thats it. I guess its brash to accuse him of being mafia when i think there is nothing to talk about but still. You say I'm mafia because you don't see usefullness? How is me mentioning "hey, lynching people who are active on bad reasoning" useless? How about when we have little information we hit people obviously lurking. Prevent scum from hiding in lurkers and they out themselves. Yea deff useless mindset. You may not see much to talk about but you should at least be able to see whats being done wrong. Rather than help with it you instead sit back and do basically nothing. Everyone should jump off the 3 bandwagons as of now and opt to instead lynch one of these inactives. GrassGiraffe LandenC lazorbear I have never seen any of the 3 in a game before and they have all sat back and done nothing but lurk. Newbie mafia are likely to lurk rather than post out of fear for outing themselves, so this seems a smarter place to start than killing active players who will out themselves later if they are red. I did not include node in the list above purely because if he does reappear I would rather keep around someone who I know has the ability to help town rather than 3 people who are unknowns in ability. ##vote grassgiraffe | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
Canada7876 Posts
On June 17 2011 05:03 LandenC wrote: After seeing Kenpachis post I can see where he is coming from about BC. + Show Spoiler + Wanting DT's to check outside of the list, making him safe from check if red(but not if gf ofc). After seeing RoL jump to his defense after Kens vote, I think RoL and BC might both be red thus not having DT's check into the list helps them even more. + Show Spoiler + On June 14 2011 13:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: We as a group will draw insane scrutiny from town and as such dt checks should be used on anyone not us. The group of us should be forced to prove our worth to town. It also provides us with a list that if there are any reds in shooting into becomes dangerous as it lowers the possible hiding spots for them. This should effectively keep veteran townies alive and kicking longer while letting medics work elsewhere. Dts should be firing into people who are likely to be inactive, or have posted something insanely suspicious. Medics should protect anyone who is not listed above. Note: This is for night 0 and potentially night 1 only. Past that time frame enough information should be garnered in thread for blues to act properly and the vets to properly distinguish sides. Next is his only real vote or FoS from him. All other posts of his don't have much scum hunting. He votes for node so he at least got a vote in but it will pretty much go unnoticed. + Show Spoiler + On June 16 2011 09:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I would like to say however that until he makes a post in the thread I will be sticking a vote on node. He didn't post anything serious during night 0 and he has been afk thus far into day 1. However I would like to get him talking. ##vote node Rest of his posts mainly just general talk about lurkers lists and bad plans. No real scum hunting just pressure on lurkers. + Show Spoiler + On June 16 2011 12:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Its a horrrrrrrrrible strategy and by know means should be used. Had mataza not stressed how bad this idea was I would be pushing for his lynch right now. The only saving grace of it is that it will have people talking. On June 16 2011 12:41 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Oh it is a terrrrrrrible plan don't get me wrong. But if the options are take shitty ideas to force discussion or let town lurk itself to death theres only one option really. This all being said, people have to start talking. We have FoS on sinani, aidnai, and Ilovejohn. I would like to hear from everyone in regards to these three. I will also propose this. If by say noon EST thursday (tommorrow for me) we have not yet heard from people on the zodiac list assume most of the 3 on the lynch docket are likely to be town or mostly town and we instead lynch an obvious uncontributing lurker. With the level of stagnance so far it seems better to kill someone who wont help at all than those who will potentially slip up later if red, or attempt to help if town. I don't like the idea of shooting active voices with so much inactivity. If the newer players are afraid of posting on chance of revealing their roles, ask the mods who are potential people that could coach them from outside the game or mason someone you feel could give you some help within it. Short of that inactivity will lose the town the game. On June 14 2011 13:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The advantage of it is if there are any reds in the list (i would assume there is at least one if not more) that shooting into the list this early on potentially outs themselves. It potentially protects people without the use of a med and lets them instead prot more likely blue snipes. On June 16 2011 13:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Depends on the vet to be honest. So far only node and RoL need to be accounted for as of right now. If both appear with decent posts I would say leave the list as it is and throw either dt checks into it, or give 1 more day to let everyone analyze the group. If they both stay horribly inactive lynching one of them is potentially more useful. If they are however active I would say we get a list of inactives and just lynch one. On June 17 2011 03:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: OK as of right now we have a bunch of people who are hella lurking Key two of these are RebirthofLegend and node. Seriously you two, shape the fuck up. Level of activity of node Jacinto Landec suggests we have potential modkills incoming, however if they appear to vote later I would say keep a close on eye them and if they jump on the easy bandwagon or not. That all being said, of sinani/aidnai/ilj (not sure why these 3 are still on the docket but whatever) ILJ has stated he will be inactive which doesn't help anyone but scum. Of the 3 he is the only one who would sit well in the case he is not mafia. My vote for now will still stay on node until node posts and or votes and I will then shift it over to ILJ unless a more compelling case for someone else has appeared. I agree with Kenpachi, BC looks suspicious and gets my vote for now. Your new so maybe you don't understand some things. Day 1 is near impossible to scumhunt unless people realllly fuck up somewhere along the line. It's even harder when players like yourself opt to sitback and not post until pressured. You were lurking, you got called out, and suddenly the person who does it is red. You mention I am red because of the zodiac list? all the names of players on that list are people who will prove their alignment via play in thread, analysis done on them, etc... Dt checks are far more useful being directed at people (much like yourself) who are lurking hard and not contributing. If someone is unreadable because they skirt by sheeping the entire game a dt check can clear them or damn them very quickly. A gf is much more likely to be hiding in a list of veteran players than it is amongst lurkers as well. Making myself accountable for my actions and adding scruitiny to myself is not pro mafia, its pro town. You then mention most of my posts are on bad plans? pushing to kill lurkers? Wow, since when is trying to organize people from doing bad moves an anti town play? Trying to organize people and get them to realize bandwagons they are on are most likely wrong is not mafia play. Take a look at the major 3 bandwagons. All 3 started fairly early and had next to no opposition except from the players involved. No one was defending them? at all? Instead there was next to no discussion, people sheep'd onto some of those lists not even justifying themselves. That screams mafia are content to sit back and let the shit happen. Use your head people. | ||
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BloodyC0bbler
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On June 17 2011 05:26 sinani206 wrote: Oh yeah: ##Vote: Kenpachi Not only is your posting worse than in any of your previous games, it is also contradictory. I mean you always lurk but this contradictory and repetitive bullshit is really scummy. uh, hes not on the docket of being lynched right now. If town feels so strongly about him use a dt or vig on him, but don't waste a lynch on someone you can get talking in thread. | ||
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