EPTOn May 31 2011 16:18 youngminii wrote:
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Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia III
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
I agree with lynching lurkers. It will help us in many ways beyond simply eliminating a useless player, and we will gain much information by it. That being said, I'm going to be really busy this weekend and don't expect to really get into this till Monday. I'll not be lurking, but I won't be my usual super active day 1. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On June 04 2011 17:26 Ace wrote: KavCaprio! I'll get you lynched for that yet! You just made yourself a nemesis. Even if I can only be slightly annoying, I'll still do what I can to get you lynched. Even if I have to settle for lynching your effigy. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Firstly, having a vet claim so that he can get checked by a cop is an incredibly pro-mafia plan. The only way that the town will know that he has been cleared by the cop is if the cop claims, and then we will lose the cop. Even if there is no counter claim, and they are accepted as innocent, people will start to follow that one person. How many times must it be said. The town CANNOT rely on blue roles. In addition, Town CANNOT rely on confirmed townies being correct. I'm honestly confused how this got this far, or why Youngmini, an experienced player, is advocating it. "But we will get someone who can lead the town!" you say? Wrong. This is a terrible idea. We cannot rely on a small group of people to do the work. This has been said time and time again in post game discussion. You cannot give all the responsibility to a small group of people, confirmed or not. What happens when the mafia kill off the head, and we are left with nothing to analyse because no one else has been putting any effort into scum hunting? Everyone must be working together to find scum. Also, on the lynch, Mataza is a poor lynch. We focus on lurkers today. Mataza is active enough with his posting that we will be able to analyse him fully later, but lurkers will give us very little to analyse. I've shown with my dead body more than once, that it is a bad idea to lynch active people day one. Let's not make someone else prove it. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Oh wait. He just posted. ##Vote: unichan | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On June 05 2011 05:18 youngminii wrote: I did say I won't be pushing for it but ok if thinking a plan is good makes me suspicious then lol I don't really know how to defend against that. I still think vet claiming is the best idea btw but as I said I'll let it be. Hesmyrr, I never said my pressure. In any case I did say I was an advocate of lynching the inactives. ##Vote: unichan It's entirely dependent on the plan. If you supported a plan where we no-lynch for the rest of the game, you are obviously supporting scum. Obviously you are not supporting something so obviously pro-scum, but you bet I'm going to call out people who are supporting pro-mafia plans. (Note: Bad plan !(necessarily)= pro-mafia plan. Pro mafia plan = Bad plan.) Having the vet claim will only benefit mafia. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
The discussion today went well imo. There was pressure, people who weren't posting started, and the people that I felt were scumiest from early in the day got looked at. (sinani for posting completely out of place post count lists.) + Show Spoiler [Day 1 Lynch] + I know this is a bit late in the day, but let me make my opinions on the day 1 lynch clear: Lynching a lurker day 1 is good. This is why: First, it pressures people to stop lurking. We we only "pressure" without actually being willing to lynch, then the pressure is a facade, and people can safely lurk all they want. Second, lurkers cannot be analysed later because there will be little to no information that we can use to analyse them by. Beyond that, we have several newer players in this game, and as is well known new scum players tend to lurk. (Not every new scum player, but the majority). This means that are more likly to find a player amongst the lurkers than we are amongst the more vocal people in the town. For this reason, untill we are able to look at more information (i.e. day 2) I suggest we lynch a lurker. Now, I think that I need to clarify what I mean by a lurker: A lurker is someone who is not posting much, but more importantly is someone who is putting very little content in thier posts. (Content being original ideas, opinions, and reads) + Show Spoiler [For Palmar] + Simply lynching the person who is the most inactive as a policy lynch isn't a great idea, i agree. However, there's no way that the town would ever simply pick the most inactive person so I think that your dissagreement is misplaced. There is a group of inactive players atm, and out of that group we should pick the scumiest. Should we be gunning for sucm? Absolutely, but we have to think ahead also. Day 1 lynch is natoriously hard to get right, so let's do two things to make sure we come out on top at the end of it: 1 If it's we lynch a townie, then let's make sure it's one of the useless townies. If we aren't too sure who is scum, let's shoot into the group that statistically will have a higher percentage of scum in it: Lurkers. Keeping all that in mind, we scum hunt as usual, but we keep the spotlight on that group. I'm not saying that we shouldn't pressure people, we shouldn't discuss, we shouldn't hunt. We should do all of those things. But at the end of the day, we play it safe and lynch someone who is not contributing, and soneone who will be hard to analyse later. All in all it's the best choice to make unless someone makes a big scum slip. Discuss who is scummy. Pressure people. Lynch a lurker. They are not mutually exclusive. + Show Spoiler [Veteran Claim] + I don´t know what good a designated town leader/coordinator does in a game without PMs. Since everything he says is in the open, he cannot coordinate night actions without letting the scum know it. That leaves analysis and scumhunting, for which we don´t need a leader. Actually a single, declared leader is detrimental, as it can devolve into "follow the leader" and scum sucking up to him. This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier. A leader does us no good in this game. It only puts a bigger target on our most valuable player. If we all contribute then it doesn't matter who dies, the rest of the town caries on. If we leave it up to a few leaders the mafia can snipe them and then roflstomp the rest of the inactive town. In anycase, I think the point has been made, and it's up to the vet to decide to do the right thing and remain annonomous. ------------------------- Reading up now, will respond to current events (the vet claim) | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
So I was going to press for Original Name, becaues he was lurking back and not posting much other than defence. This claim (which sinani's been painfully obviously hinting at for the since he asked if a vet could be lynched) is changing things. If I were mafia, and I was about to be lynched, I would 100% claim vet. It's not confirmable unless you are shot, and obviously the mafia isn't going to shoot their own member. After they claim vet they have an excuse to be alive for the rest of the game "Because the mafia know that I am a vet". In short, the vet claim makes me think more than anything that Sinani is scum. I think I think that the vet claim is a last ditch attempt to save their own, and by the looks of it it's going pretty well. ##Unvote ##Vote Sinani | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Since there has been a vet claim, and people are defending him, that reason is void, and I am left with a strong scum read. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
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Kavdragon
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Sorry if this covers anything that has already been said, I'm still working offline and posting when I get a brief connection Right, so I know I didn't start the bandwagon on Sinani, but I certainly made sure that it stayed that way. I accept the responsibility for this mislynch as I feel like I was the person who stopped a possible rescue. I accept the scrutiny that will come because of the mislynch, and will do my best to answer any questions you may have about my play. I'll start by responding to the general aditide towards my play which was summed up by YM: "he's virtually only said "lynch lurkers" then disappeared." I was only here for the beginning of the day and I gave my opinions and advice on the two prevailing subjects: A Veteran claim (which I was against), and whether or not to lynch a lurker (which I was for). I already explained why I've been reletivly inactive, and as i mentioned then, I should be able to post more now. Enough about me though. Firstly I think that talking during the night is a GOOD thing and we should definetly utilize the time to our advantage. Next: as I see it there are two main things that we need to discuss: The lynch, and night actions. The Lynch We need to look at who is implicated now that we know that Sinani has flipped town. This will not necesarilly be people who just voted for Sinani. Sucm want to lynch anyone who is not scum, so look for the people who sheeped behind other people's reasons, but tried to absolve themselfs right before the lynch. (Mafia want to lynch anyone but scum, but they don't want to be caught doing it.) In Insane PYP Ace was scum and did a really good job of pushing my lynch, but he never actually voted me, and right at the end he called people voting for me "scummy". He distanced himself from the lynch, and did it so well that when i flipped town, nobody thought that he was the one responsible, even though he was the instigator, and to a great extent pushed the lynch forwards. Look for that people distancing themselves from the lynch. Night Actions Detective: The general policy for detectives is to look at inactive players because they are the hardest to analyse later in the game. If you have a hunch, go for it. Part of the power of the detective is that they can look at people who otherwise wouldn't get looked at. I think that people should post lists of who they think should be DT checked, but obviously the decision should be, and is, up to the detective. + Show Spoiler [My DT List] + Unichan (hasn't said much) OriginalName (He was(is) a lurker, and this gives us a lot more information on the lynch.) Medic: Figure out who you think the mafia are most likly to hit, and protect them. Obviously you can't know for sure, but generally picking people who are vocal and obviously pro-town is a good pick. Experianced players are another good way to go. + Show Spoiler [MyMedicList] + dementrio (He's new but his aditude gives me a town read. I hope he keeps it up.) Youngmini (I have a null read on him, but he's an experianced player and worth saving) Vigilante At this point i don't think we have strong cases against anyone and reads are pretty weak at this point. Even if you could shoot, I wouldn't. Save it for someone you are sure about, but is unlikely to get lynched. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
If you are medic, there is almost never a reason to claim. So don't. Don't breadcrumb it, don't hint at it. Mafia are MUCH more likely to pick up on those things. If you are a cop, don't claim if you get scum. Breadcrumb that person. For instance, if you check OriginalName and he's sucm, don't say "I"M A COP, ON IS SCUM!!!!!". Vote him, pressure him, make him a center point of your accusations. Not necessarily tunneling, but make sure that the scum is being accused by you. Vig: No need to claim before hand, and the town will likely discuss and decide whether you should claim following your shot. Also, I forgot to mention this before, but we must work under the assumption that we have no blue roles. This should go without saying but i see people making plans that revolve around someone being checked, and then medic'd. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On June 06 2011 14:04 youngminii wrote: lol, this is exactly what I've been accusing palmar of since night post. Heh, and people already started discussing night actions + lists. This is what i get for not being up to date on the thread. Oh, and I'd like to update my DT list to include Varpulis at the top. He's pretty far up on my scumdar now, and I'll get around to an analysis tomorrow. (hopefully before the night is over, in case I die). | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Since then his posting has shown a fairly clear agenda that is pro-town. I'd write up an analysis on why he is town, but I don't think we are going to be lynching him anytime soon, and I think my time would be better spent on scum. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On June 07 2011 07:29 Mataza wrote: Addendum: Looks a lot like a preemptive defense to me. "Before you ever question me, remember I tried to rescue that one guy" Sinani didn´t get 3 posts together without a votelist or playerlist. Just because he flipped blue, it doesn´t mean anything. We made a mistake, but we did it (mostly) for the right reasons. Tl;dr Hindsight is a bitch, but you´re not as confirmed as you think No one is cleared for going against the sinani lynch. YM is looking town because of what he is doing in the aftermath. Honestly I though he was a little scummy looking before the lynch, but after he's looking much more helpful. You haven't done much to help the town at this point, and tunneling YM is useless to us right now. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
Check this out: Sinani asks if vets can be lynched (something that was an obvious vet claim to me at the time) and three posts later, OriginalName posts this jem: On June 06 2011 06:58 OriginalName wrote: ##Unvote Stephfftastiq - ok yeah im a hypocrite but thats life. Im sorry if I didnt make it clear that I didnt like Mataza and Palmer that much, however since neither of them are likely to be lynched (and Palmer somewhat improving) I'd still like to point out that most of Mataza's posts are fairly useless and absurd fluff. On a side note, using Meta to defend oneself is nearly pointless as you could theoreticaly came in with a much different playstyle to being with. Sinani is a ok lynch target only because hes being completely useless rather then just somewhat so like others [spoiler][yes including myself -_-/spoiler]. While lists can organize data postcount really doesnt matter as you could have someone with 10 long content filled posts or, 20 short spam notes just flip flopping your vote around pressuring others while making you seem pro-town while you don't do much else. I will go along with a Sinani lynch for now but I would like to consider elsewhere as nobody is really connected to him and hes probably being thrown under the metaphorical bus, he also thinks practically everyone is scummy. ##Vote Sinani206 Look at this post: There is more in that post explaining why sinani is innocent than there is condeming him. The last paragraph in particular is condeming. "I'll go along with it for now..." He says that he'll go along with is, but he says it really reluctantly. If you are reluctant to vote someone, why are you voting them!? "But I would like to consider somwhere else as nobody is really connected to him and hes probably being thrown under the metaphorical bus" He even defends him, pointing out the two things that were wrong with the lynch, and procedes to vote him!. This is EXACTLY the sort of thing that you look for afterwards. What he says in his post and what he proceds to vote are a COMPLETE CONTADICTION. He cannot say with conviction that Sinani is scum, because he knows that he is not his scum buddy! Let's also look at who he pulled his vote off of in order to vote sinani: Steff. Up to this point he's said that mataza has been playing badly and at least insinuated that he was scum, along with palmer. However, he's never felt strongly enough to vote them. He voted Steff: On June 06 2011 02:46 OriginalName wrote: At the Moment most of my opinions from yesterday still stand. The only really new thing I have to bring to the table is i'm going to push stefftastiq harder as in anycase lynching lurkers now is better than having them at Lylo, and considering this is a mini game this is going to come much much sooner than we want. I highly suggest lynching him today unless he really steps up. ##Vote Stefftastiq He says that "his opinion from yesterday still stands" implying that he though that steff was lynch worthy for the past two days. (one game day). The key thing here is that he "highly suggests lynching [steff] unless he really steps it up." Steff didn't step it up, yet he pulls his vote off of him ONE POST LATER, and reluctantly votes for Sinani. This makes no sense. He shows that he actually has very little conviction behind what he is saying, and is not conserned with who is lynched. Classic scum mentality. Looking past the sinani vote, in all of his posts up to the lynch (when people are trying to push the lynch onto him) he never once denys peoples accusations, and instead of defending himself, he just pushes for sinani harder. That's not how townies play. Townies don't lynch other people just so that they stay alive. You look for someone else who looks like scum (steff)and push for that instead of the person you think we should not be focusing on (sinani). OriginalName has played enough games to know better than that. Original Name is scum. This is about as clear cut as it gets folks. OriginalName is the obvious choice for a day 2 lynch. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On June 07 2011 08:11 Mataza wrote: @Kavdragon And now I am suddenly the most obvious scum. I never called you scum? I just said that what you were doing was not helpful. + Show Spoiler + Why so defensive? | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On June 06 2011 12:39 OriginalName wrote: Town: Steff More evidence that he has no real opinions. This is one of my favorite ways to catch scum, because I've played scum, and I know how hard it is to avoid slips like this. It's really hard to think that someone is scum, because you know they are innocent. (I mean to really think that someone is scum. Anyone can say someone is scum, but it's really hard to make a convincing argument for them because you KNOW that they are innocent. because of this scum will often say one thing, then say the other because they have no real opinion, but they are forced to say something by the town. Then we cross reference it with thier previous reads, and if they have changed their minds (WITHOUT A REASON) Boom. Huge scum tell. | ||
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Kavdragon
United States1251 Posts
On June 07 2011 09:47 Mataza wrote: Lol Kav, taking 2 ends of a paragraph and they don´t fit wtf. I meant that I am the most obvious according to youngminii,of course, and others. At least Varpulis and OriginalName said I am worth a cop check. It wasn´t on my list of Youngminiis actions, since it isn´t him alone that mentioned me in the "almost confirmed scum corner". I don´t see the problem here. My bad then. You can see how I might have been confused seeing as that statement was in the paragraph directly below my name... | ||
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