• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:47
CEST 18:47
KST 01:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent8Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues7LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris69
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Production Quality - Maestros of the Game Vs RSL 2 Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
FlaSh on ACS Winners being in ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group A [IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Is there English video for group selection for ASL
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Collective Intelligence: Tea…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1226 users

Pick Your Power Insane!

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 04 2011 03:51 GMT
#45
/in
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 10 2011 00:27 GMT
#109
On May 10 2011 08:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
This game looks like it's gonna get pretty crazy. I hope I don't get stomped


What do you have to worry about im the one whos going to get stomped T_T.

Although, I have plans...
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 10 2011 01:32 GMT
#111
On May 10 2011 10:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 10 2011 09:27 OriginalName wrote:
On May 10 2011 08:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
This game looks like it's gonna get pretty crazy. I hope I don't get stomped


What do you have to worry about im the one whos going to get stomped T_T.

Although, I have plans...


Lol, is that a compliment?

And don't worry, you'll do fine, haha


Yes its a compliment >_>
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 14 2011 03:54 GMT
#259
On May 14 2011 12:43 chaoser wrote:
you feel like relaxing every game ace


HES POINTING OUT THE OBVIOUS! OBV SCUM!

...ok not really :/
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 14 2011 16:54 GMT
#293
On May 15 2011 01:06 tnkted wrote:
I don't think this assigning roles plan is a good idea at all. Why? Because everyone at the top of the list is going to be instantly targeted by mafia. Mafia wants to kill the inventor ASAP, they want to kill the politician, they want to kill the dirty cop. Virtually every single role that town would like to grab, whoever is the first townie in line is going to get killed.

This of course means that anyone who survives the first few nights but is in the top 5 is going to be on my shitlist, unless they've survived a hit already or something. Simple reason is this: Scum is going to get in top 5, and scum is going to shoot into top 5, because one of those 5 is going to have inventor, which is by far the most OP role in this game. Especially if you're creative. immune to actions, anyone? cakebomb? free caffemetamine (extra turn at night)? Autoframe? doublekill? the list goes on. Inventor is deadly in the hands of scum and even deadlier in the hands of town.


There has been some talk about a traitor; I hadn't realized this, but bums right. Somebody is certain to be an asshole. If I had to guess, I'd say its probably going to be somebody lower down on the list, who knew he/she wasn't going to be able to get medic, and chose traitor instead.

so when draft order is revealed: medics, if you get your roles, PROTECT THE TOP 5 OR SO.


Along with this im sure somebody is going to just choose the role they want regardless of the draft order if they know the role is not going to be in high demand anyways.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 15 2011 04:23 GMT
#348
I picked [4][6]

now lets get this on like did e kong
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 15 2011 21:15 GMT
#418
On May 16 2011 06:13 Caller wrote:
either everybody's role should be public or nobody's role should be public. Giving out only half the information is just asking for trouble.

other than that i'm going to pick the biggest troll role that i can, because that's how i roll.


If I end up Vanilla I will end you Caller.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 16 2011 05:29 GMT
#457
Ok now that 48 hours of wifom is over I have a question.
Is going through pregame really worth the amount of effort over results or should we play this like a normal game?

Im going to answer this by saying: sort of.

The biggest reason behind this are plans proposed by Radfield and Batman both are basically the same thing. Pro-town plans to attempt to control roles. When has this ever worked in PYP? Never, invariably someone always effs it up. So why bother with wifom, the only real analysis done on actual people was done by Caller, so really I think our best move is to play the game like a really blue heavy normal game.

Im liable to think somebody who suggested a no-pick list is scum just because it looks towny on the outside, control is a scum style so why let them get away with it.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 17 2011 00:56 GMT
#591
On May 17 2011 09:15 Scamp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2011 08:48 Radfield wrote:
Scamp? Are you there? Anything to add to the general discussion? I'd like you to know that i'm operating under the general impression that you drafted Inventor. Therefore, if something ambiguous or anti-town is invented tonight, I'll probably push for your lynch. However, if you didn't take Inventor, it's possible you may want to state that outright.


Nothing much to add to the general discussion at this point. There's only two things I'm curious about right now. First is with all the talk about checking vote lists, did someone confirm a list check role?

Second is if OriginalName is going to ever speak again.

I'm not going to state at this point whether or not I took Inventor. Someone might steal my patents if I am. Still, if someone does invent something I doubt it'll be as obvious as a 'town-seeking missile' or whatnot.


Yes im going to speak again, just give me an hour to finish some work
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 17 2011 05:03 GMT
#635
On May 17 2011 12:29 Kavdragon wrote:
Of course now that you've made me say this my pressure will be less effective...


How so, its not like a scum player will just completely ignore you, they'd actually slip up more because their posts would be more scrutinized leaving more chances for slips to be uncovered. If you really believe a tactic is inefficent then dont use it.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 17 2011 05:07 GMT
#636
on my phone please excuse the double post.

On May 17 2011 12:54 Kavdragon wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Draft Order:
1. Flamewheel [3][3]
2. Scamp [7][11]
3. Caller [10][4]
4. Barundar [13][1]
5. Radfield
6. GMarshal [17][1]
7. Deconduo
8. Foolishness[1][1]
9. bumatlarge [1][18]
10. Kavdragon [2][1]
11. Chaoser [2][2]
12. Fishball [5][3]
13. KillerSOS[5][11]
14. Eiii [6][7]
15. Infinitestory [6][10]
16. Dreamflower [4][1]
17. Mr.Wiggles [4][2]
18. Original Name[4][6]
19. tnkted [4][12]
20. Chezinu [4][x]
21. Ace [9][11]
22. Kurumi [9][13]
23. Incognito[9][1]
24. Node [9][1]
25. kitaman27 [9][1]


Is anyone else still wondering why all the 4's are behind the 5's and 6's?


Nostop changing the subject at our current view.

+ Show Spoiler +
The answer lies in how many 4s there are, no need to be dodging
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 18 2011 01:47 GMT
#774
On May 18 2011 10:18 Ace wrote:
Also these "likely town" lists are also hilarious. Fake effort all around. Managing "vote lists" by Incognito's whim. Scamp and chaoser accused of lurking, when there are blatant fishy posts in front of our eyes.

Incognito, Radfield. Flip a coin.


I like Radfield he wanted a ton of control at the start and wanted to lynh based on kp roles. KP roles intown hands can easily help make up for the inevitable myslynches.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 19 2011 03:59 GMT
#925
On May 19 2011 12:41 Foolishness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2011 12:29 Incognito wrote:
On May 19 2011 12:21 Foolishness wrote:
On May 19 2011 12:17 Incognito wrote:
On May 19 2011 12:05 Foolishness wrote:
At the end of the day yesterday, I just thought Incognito had a bad case of Pyrrhuloxitis and wasn't really mafia, since to me some of his arguments against Kav were lol. So I didn't change my vote off of him until the end, but I lost track of time because I was watching proleague. Shit happens. Now I'm not sure what to think anymore. At the very least, Incog's attitude does not help the town in the current situation so I will still be voting him unless new information surfaces.

And frankly, I doubt anything new will come up. If the vote checker checks some list (as planned) would you have them claim the results even if they aren't damning? We all know mafia spread out votes as much as possible, so they will probably get a 1/5 people are mafia in one of the lists. Well big freaking deal since we got a 1/5 chance of randomly killing a mafia with a lynch anyways. I fail to see how vote checking is going to get us anywhere tomorrow. This game has lots of good players, mafia aren't going to be stupid and lose because of a vote check.

If nobody else is going to try to do some normal, mafia analysis, we might as well just throw in the towel now. These vote checks which are going to return 1/5 are mafia aren't going to help anything until day 4 when we get a bunch more vote checks to properly nab the mafia. Game will probably be close to over by then.


So what you're trying to say, is that you will be voting me, even though mafia were uninvolved in the lynch and probably spread out their votes, which wouldn't happen unless I'm town. Congratz. I, on the other hand, think we will find out some good information tonight.

I also like how you haven't given any analysis. Congratz again. When will people stop being afraid of looking stupid and actually do something?

And you've got loads of analysis Mr "let's wait for blues to win us the game"?

Yes I do, but if nobody cares about this game, I won't bother. See, I can play this game too!

This is why I want you dead. If I came across like I didn't care about the game then my bad, but you're the one who hurt the town yesterday with your bandwagon on Kav. You're the one that needs to prove that you are useful to the town alive rather than dead (and before you say I'm useless this is about you, not me). Repeatedly telling everyone "don't worry guys...vote checks and blues gonna win this for us" is not proving yourself useful; I don't care what nice role you may have picked up in the draft.


so lynch him, problem solved.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 19 2011 04:04 GMT
#927
On May 19 2011 13:00 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2011 12:59 OriginalName wrote:
On May 19 2011 12:41 Foolishness wrote:
On May 19 2011 12:29 Incognito wrote:
On May 19 2011 12:21 Foolishness wrote:
On May 19 2011 12:17 Incognito wrote:
On May 19 2011 12:05 Foolishness wrote:
At the end of the day yesterday, I just thought Incognito had a bad case of Pyrrhuloxitis and wasn't really mafia, since to me some of his arguments against Kav were lol. So I didn't change my vote off of him until the end, but I lost track of time because I was watching proleague. Shit happens. Now I'm not sure what to think anymore. At the very least, Incog's attitude does not help the town in the current situation so I will still be voting him unless new information surfaces.

And frankly, I doubt anything new will come up. If the vote checker checks some list (as planned) would you have them claim the results even if they aren't damning? We all know mafia spread out votes as much as possible, so they will probably get a 1/5 people are mafia in one of the lists. Well big freaking deal since we got a 1/5 chance of randomly killing a mafia with a lynch anyways. I fail to see how vote checking is going to get us anywhere tomorrow. This game has lots of good players, mafia aren't going to be stupid and lose because of a vote check.

If nobody else is going to try to do some normal, mafia analysis, we might as well just throw in the towel now. These vote checks which are going to return 1/5 are mafia aren't going to help anything until day 4 when we get a bunch more vote checks to properly nab the mafia. Game will probably be close to over by then.


So what you're trying to say, is that you will be voting me, even though mafia were uninvolved in the lynch and probably spread out their votes, which wouldn't happen unless I'm town. Congratz. I, on the other hand, think we will find out some good information tonight.

I also like how you haven't given any analysis. Congratz again. When will people stop being afraid of looking stupid and actually do something?

And you've got loads of analysis Mr "let's wait for blues to win us the game"?

Yes I do, but if nobody cares about this game, I won't bother. See, I can play this game too!

This is why I want you dead. If I came across like I didn't care about the game then my bad, but you're the one who hurt the town yesterday with your bandwagon on Kav. You're the one that needs to prove that you are useful to the town alive rather than dead (and before you say I'm useless this is about you, not me). Repeatedly telling everyone "don't worry guys...vote checks and blues gonna win this for us" is not proving yourself useful; I don't care what nice role you may have picked up in the draft.


so lynch him, problem solved.

did you bother to look at any of the votes yesterday


Not my fault your letting obvious scumswitches get away unpunished.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 20 2011 04:48 GMT
#1090
On May 20 2011 13:33 Ace wrote:
I think IS is the only one that understands what I've been trying to say. This is just TOO convenient.


Another easy conveinience is Incogs nuke on Chezinu. He gets a suspect in a group of suspects then shoots him to mske him look pro-town despite some very convincing evidence against himself. In all honesty we are likely being distracted at the moment and should be lynching him regardless,

However we could also no-lynch and just have wiggles kill incog.

Im not quite sure who it was that said bussing is an ineffective stratagy, but i couldnt agree less however bussing is generally much better when your trying to avoid being detected in the first place. Bussing Chezinu to save Incog really isn't worth it however if it had been the other way around who knows.

Tldr: Lyncg Incog with kingmaker lynch, hes trying to save his own ass.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 21 2011 02:05 GMT
#1245
On May 21 2011 11:03 Caller wrote:
What the hell is going on

we have a list of people that we can both purge of mafia and clear

There is at least 1 mafia, maybe two, on that list. If its 1 mafia, its either GMarshal, or Mafia + a frame. If its 2 mafia, GMarshal is almost certainly not mafia, because it'd be friggin stupid for mafia to create a situation where its 2/6 instead of 1/5. There is absolutely no reason for us not to get on this list. If none of Node, Incog, and Chez is mafia (well, in addition to me, ofc) either I'm the worst player in the history of the world or GMarshal is scum. Flamewheel gets pretty much cleared that way. If only one of them is scum, then obviously flamewheel is not clear. But if two fo them are scum, and this is by far my most likely feeling, given that mafia would not do something that bold this early, then we have a cleared list of Flamewheel and GMarshal. I'm perfectly willing to die to clear off two DT roles like that, or to snag a scum DT. I'm not sure why Node, Incog, and Chez (the latter of whom is recently smelling like shit) are all running around like headless chickens trying to pass the blame onto people not on a list with guaranteed mafia as well as potential clears. Unless, of course, they're scummy. Which I think they are.

Why are people voting for KillerSoS? He's definitely scummy as shit as has been already pointed out, but he claimed Tracker. At the very least, we should let him run his mouth and see what he has to say, because we can milk him for information regardless of whether he's scummy or town. Besides, killing him doesn't tell us a single goddamn thing. If we kill scum, we should do so in a position where we can scoop up other scum in the bargain, not a lone wolf and then have to start from square one all over again.

My commitment is still pretty shitty. Someone (I think Radfield) requested a chaoser analysis so I'm working on that right now, but real life jumped on me and I'm still struggling to deal with it.

Voted Incog because we should be getting that list cleared up. We're in a position to clear people completely, and get rid of some mafia, so why aren't we using it? It'll be hard to get off all the votes on Incog right now as much as I would like to be lynched and Incog shot (to ensure my honesty), so King should use his shooting on me or Node. I don't know what role Node is, but I'm fairly expendable, and once we have a clear list we have guaranteed night actions. In fact, assuming my gut reads of flamewheel is right, and assuming GMarshal isn't lying, we have at least 1 cleared investigative role that can be saturated with protection (I refuse to believe there are no medic roles).


VI Softclaim?

I wouldn't be surprised based on Callers earlier behaviour in the pregame.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 21 2011 02:27 GMT
#1250
On May 21 2011 11:26 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
##Lynch: OriginalName


I love you wiggles.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 21 2011 03:12 GMT
#1265
On May 21 2011 12:07 Radfield wrote:
I have so much loathing in my heart for anyone who would pick a village idiot role Why even sign up?

+ Show Spoiler +
No offense ON, different strokes for different folks I guess


My original plan was to actually gun for one of your no--pick roles and play it by ear, but i got busy and didnt want to sub out so picked VI to still allow me to play to win. ^_^

+ Show Spoiler +
No offense taken i played like a coward.
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 21 2011 03:14 GMT
#1269
On May 21 2011 12:13 infinitestory wrote:
ON counting this as a win would be like counting this as a win >


>_> Note the spoiler.

+ Show Spoiler +
GO TOWN!
OriginalName
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada1140 Posts
May 21 2011 04:27 GMT
#1309
+ Show Spoiler +
HOLY SHIT VER THAT PIC IS AWESOME
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
MNW 22
SteadfastSC432
TKL 223
IndyStarCraft 154
BRAT_OK 96
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 474
SteadfastSC 432
TKL 223
IndyStarCraft 154
mcanning 102
BRAT_OK 96
UpATreeSC 59
MindelVK 13
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7911
Flash 2036
Jaedong 910
firebathero 400
Mini 387
Light 348
hero 258
Hyuk 253
sSak 202
Soma 182
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 117
Snow 88
Sharp 54
soO 45
Hyun 43
sorry 31
Rock 26
Free 24
Yoon 24
JYJ20
scan(afreeca) 15
Terrorterran 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Hm[arnc] 13
Noble 7
Britney 0
Dota 2
Gorgc9405
qojqva3553
XcaliburYe148
Other Games
singsing1913
FrodaN1035
Beastyqt435
ceh9381
Lowko327
Hui .254
ArmadaUGS140
Khaldor131
QueenE119
KnowMe71
SortOf61
B2W.Neo11
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1549
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV697
League of Legends
• Nemesis1764
• Jankos1535
• TFBlade645
Other Games
• Shiphtur434
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
17h 14m
BeSt vs Alone
Queen vs Bisu
PiGosaur Monday
1d 7h
OSC
1d 23h
OSC
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs SHIN
Reynor vs Zoun
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Maru
Online Event
3 days
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Clem vs herO
Serral vs Bunny
Reynor vs Zoun
Cosmonarchy
4 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Copa Latinoamericana 4
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21: BSL Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.