TL Mafia XXXIX

On May 05 2011 03:54 Irish_Punk13 wrote:
Okay guys, I just woke up, so I'm going to be reading over this a few more times so I can try to get a good post up.

I should be posting up within an hour or so with something useful, but for now I have to go look to see how another game is going.

On May 05 2011 04:22 Irish_Punk13 wrote:
Okay, for now my vote is going on AirbladeOrange for his last post. I don't like the fact that he's okay with the idea of lynching town. Kurumi is making some great posts so far, and I think he's most likely town based off of his actions so far. The fact that you think it's okay to lynch him tells me that you're probably scum, so I'm putting my vote on you.

On May 05 2011 04:25 KillerSOS wrote:


I'm going to have to agree with this post, while I am not decided on a vote at all, this is a good line to follow.

On May 05 2011 12:19 kitaman27 wrote:
I just finished skimming through Irish's game as mafia. Mainly I just read his posts, rather than the entire game, but the first thing that stood out was he clearly wasn't a noob. He seemed to have a pretty good idea of what he was doing.

The main difference between that game and this one so far is his thread presence. On UG, he was one of the more active posters and played a pro-town game (enough so to draw a day one medic save). When pushing a lynch, he got pretty aggressive.

As for how he responded to pressure, it probably wasn't the best game to gauge. The scum team had a flawless victory so there really wasn't much for him to worry about. He did do a decent job of blending in though, as this was posted in post-game:





Looking back, I think his overreaction was probably overstated. He came off worried, but that alone isn't really enough to make him guilty.



Of his posts so far, this one feels the most off. I must have missed all the great posts by Kurumi. Most of them were either spam or left me pretty confused. Not sure how he gets a town read off that. Jumping on AO seems pretty convenient, but at the same time, he was apparently "joking" about a policy lynch.

I would like to hear more from him in the next 24 hours. If he doesn't handle pressure well, then it would be beneficial to try to force a slip out of him.

The other person who I would like to here more from is chaos13. After his weird guilty post about defending irish, he has posted mostly questions and one-liners.

On May 05 2011 04:22 Irish_Punk13 wrote:
Okay, for now my vote is going on AirbladeOrange for his last post. I don't like the fact that he's okay with the idea of lynching town. Kurumi is making some great posts so far, and I think he's most likely town based off of his actions so far. The fact that you think it's okay to lynch him tells me that you're probably scum, so I'm putting my vote on you.

On May 05 2011 06:30 Irish_Punk13 wrote:
Okay, I saw that Amber quoted Chaoser asking why I acted the way I did when I posted the link to UG. I didn't mean to come off as being really defensive or anything, I was just trying to give you evidence that I do play with those guys on UG and make it clear that I didn't want to waste any more time on it.
I'm keeping my vote as is for now because I haven't found anything that sounds more suspicious than AirbladeOrange.

I'm going to go focus on my other game for now, and I'll get back to this in a bit.

On May 04 2011 23:54 Lyter wrote:


This is my first game of Mafia on a forum, I've played quite a lot of the Mafia custom on SC2 so I know how it works but I'd consider myself a newbie in a big forum game like this.

On May 05 2011 02:14 redtooth wrote:
@Rising_Phoenix, Kitmanan - While you may not need the advice given from the guide, it's pretty apparent that some players are newer than others. Just because you personally don't find it helpful doesn't mean it may not benefit the remainder of the town to some extent. Once again, I made the post after I saw people stumbling over themselves reacting to the RVS vote. It's not an attempt to impose my will on the town but rather a reminder of what we should be keeping in mind as we continue playing.

Yes taking into account experience does help to a certain degree. There are plenty of scumtells that look very similar to noobtells. Why would it hurt to have a reference in place, especially since not much other discussion is happening? If you need another explanation, I also didn't like the way the RVS was going so I went to RQS and both have generated decent discussion and activity. I didn't take a look at the last game but if you guys lynched Kavdragon solely because he was trying to be helpful then... yeah. You can disagree with strategies and call people out for them but try not to discourage helping attitudes.

On May 05 2011 21:42 redtooth wrote:...

---

@aidnai - Then why is it that people are literally tripping over themselves to keep credit and align themselves with Chaoser? As for Irish, he obviously didn't go inactive as part of a combined scum strategy to get the heat off of him since there are no PMs. If you think Irish actually is noobscum and exposed himself to all those real tells, don't you think he would have done the noobscum followup and aggressively defend himself? (See: KillerSOS)

Let's do a math exercise. Consider, as objectively as possible, the following and write down the percent chance you think of each event happening.

• Whether Irish went inactive as strategicscum or he went inactive as boredtownie.
  
• Whether Irish did a genuine chainsaw defense or that he simply jumped at what he believed to be a scumtell regardless of the merit in his analysis.
  
• Whether Irish is actually noobtown with all his tells being explained by that fact or that he is actually noobscum (and somehow strategicscum at the same time) giving away a ridiculously abundant amount of information without being more guarded.

Analyze your numbers and if it still seems like there is over "70%" of him being scum then your math has been flawed.


On the other hand, do the same for Chaoser.

• Whether he has been actively promoting quality lynches or he has been promoting the easy-to-accuse-while-not-looking-bad lynches/FoS.
  
• Whether the fact that he has a pro-town reputation is due to his being town or his being a good player who traditionally looks pro-town.
  
• Whether he is a hard-working townie bent on finding scum or he is hard-working scum bent on distracting town.

This may not come out to 70% as well but it is just as likely (IMO way more likely) as Irish being actual scum. Also, RVS/RQS = Random Voting Stage and Random Question Stage. Next time refer to this.

This made me late for work zzz.

Whether Irish is actually noobtown with all his tells being explained by that fact or that he is actually noobscum (and somehow strategicscum at the same time) giving away a ridiculously abundant amount of information without being more guarded.

On May 05 2011 21:20 VarpuliS wrote:
I'm on the fence between lynching Irish_Punk13 and Kurumi. At this point it seems to me that Irish is only scum if Kurumi is too. People are pushing a lynch on Irish because of the information he'll provide when he flips, but I think that we can get all of that information from a lynch on Kurumi.

Situation A: Kurumi flips scum, it is very likely that Irish is as well. We lynch Irish the next day, and we get our information, just a day later.

Situation B: Kurumi flips town. Irish is probably town, we move on. The only real scumtell from Irish is noting Kurumi's "great posts" which don't exist. If Kurumi is town, then Irish is just an idiot.

I'm posting from my phone, classes start soon and I probably won't have time to check the thread again until the afternoon.

On May 05 2011 21:47 redtooth wrote:
@Kitaman - Well you can't blame me for RL obligations (I'll be less active during evening today as well). Anyways, it's not as much a scumhunting list as it is a townhunting list. At the top is Chaoser for all of the above information. Then comes KillerSOS because he honestly is making every noobscum action in the book without the orgy of information found on the others.

Kurumi, Irish, and AO are all looking extremely noobtown to me. Every argument used against them could be used to argue that they're noobtown.

On May 05 2011 22:13 KillerSOS wrote:
I'm curious as to what a noobscum mistake I made was. I must learn something productive today! (other than still working on my paper...)

On May 06 2011 00:09 chaos13 wrote:
The style of game you guys play here is way beyond what I'm used to on UG, so I apologize for my relative lack of usefulness while I try to figure things out.

Kurumi has not done anything to redeem himself in my eyes. His posts have remained useless and confusing. I don't see what a townie would have to gain by lining themselves up for a lynch, so I think that is just his defense for being caught as scum, trying to make us afraid to lynch him so we aren't labeled as scum. If he flips red, then we can take a closer look at the people who are connected to him, such as Irish_Punk. He is standing out to me more than any other player so far.

On May 06 2011 02:21 DropBear wrote:
...
There are a LOT of people who are hiding.

Beneather
Mig
Amber[Light]
Kenpachi
GGQ
Rising_Phoenix
Takuna
Lyter
all need to talk more. The discussion is being completely dominated by the same few players.

My vote remains on Beneather.

On May 06 2011 03:00 Kurumi wrote:
Well about Chaoser as scum,they started throwing that when he posted a newbie guide.
I thought it is really dumb to say he is scum based on doing that and to spice things up,it was just the start.
Still I don't understand Sandroba calling out for help without doing any real contribution,why he goes after Chaoser (and the SC2 forums posting style) and this is mainly what makes me wonder about him. Also I think he changes his vote on me because he thinks it will be easier to lynch me.

On May 06 2011 03:08 Forumite wrote:
For trying too hard to defend Irish.

##Unote: Kurumi
##Vote: redtooth

(I´m posting in the other thread too, just wanted to be polite and inform people of the voting here too, since it´s easier to see updates in the main thread)

On May 06 2011 05:48 Kenpachi wrote:
wtf is going on guys
i very konfuzed..

Kurumi is bad holy shit

Lets point at someone else.


QFT

On May 05 2011 12:01 Cthsazsa wrote:
Hmm, this is my rather short analysis on Conversion, since he won't make one of his own.





Too many lurkers? That's funny, because you've only posted three times since the game started. You refuse to form, create, and state your own analysis. Instead, you're lurking in the shadows watching everyone quarl. Kind of hypocritical, is it not?





And you know Jackal's playstyle? Because in your last post you claim to only be somewhat familiar with Pheonix's. You also say you're still bad at this game. So you must be a newbie, no? If you've played 2 games and you're still a noob, how do you expect me to know how Jackal's playstyle is if this is the first time I've played mafia?

And why are you so quick to come to his defense?

On May 06 2011 08:15 chaoser wrote:
Also, where's Irish? He hasn't posted anything at all.

On May 06 2011 10:38 GGQ wrote:
...

Also, to a large number of people in the mafia forum: the word 'weary' is not the same as the word 'wary'. To be 'weary' means you are tired or exhausted. To be 'wary' means you are cautious or on your guard. Thank you.

On May 07 2011 01:32 redtooth wrote:
EBWODP:
Node please tell us exactly what time (TL Time or EST) that the Night officially ends.

We are starting all over again. The previous pages can be used as evidence but all cases must be set forth again with new, strict standards in mind. Abide by the following:

• All official accusations and arguments must be prefaced by the sentence: "I, [name], have thought about the following argument and have relatively high confidence in its accuracy". This is to make sure people aren't just throwing out arguments they don't believe in. Do this for each person you make an official, on-the-record argument against.
  
• No more than 4 quotes per argument against a player. This is to discourage quotewalls nobody reads and to encourage people actually thinking about what evidence they present. If you need to quote him 10 times to prove he's scum, you're doing it wrong. Unlimited references and paraphrasing is allowed.
  
• If an official argument sounds valid to you, request to cosponsor it. Arguments not cosponsored within 3 pages or 3 hours (whichever come later) will be dropped. You personally will not be able to make that argument again until the end of the round (day and night count as separate rounds). If another person makes the same argument against the same person, you can cosponsor that one and add your reasonings to it.
  
• All new arguments made from this point forth cannot link to your previous argument. We are starting over. Even if its the same argument, write it up again. Keep it focused, efficient, and clear. I know I haven't been the best at doing that either but we now will have higher standards.
  
• Failure to abide by these rules will be automatically receive a pFoS (pseudo Finger of Suspicion) by me.

I will not deny that I am taking draconian steps in reorganizing town. However, unless you really think what I am proposing is anti-town, shut up and deal with it. By the way, this applies to my argument against Chaoser as well. If I make an official argument and it's bad or doesn't adhere to these rules, call me out.

Finally, could you explain to me why suspicious =/= scummy? I don't understand.

On May 07 2011 02:38 chaoser wrote:
...
I ain't going to write "I, chaoser, blah blah blah". I will however, proposition this:

Amber[Light] has been playing lurker-ish
I'll come back to the Irish issue once he's posted and responded to our questions to him. Anyway onto Amber.

Amber is a vet player, and he generally posts a lot. Not just posts a lot, he also usually very active in calling people out and making FoS's on people he thinks is scummy. Except this game he hasn't.

Most of his posts have been either asking or answer questions; in fact, out of his 5 total (game relevant) posts in this thread, he's pretty much only asked and answered questions in 3 of them.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644&currentpage=22#426
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644&currentpage=22#427
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644&currentpage=22#439

In the two posts where he actually tries to take a stance on someone (In this case Kurumi), he pretty much says the reason he's voting for kurumi is because he wants information. He never outright says that he's suspicous of kurumi, just that:



and before, he questions where the Kurumi flip will lead:



Clearly he doesn't really support the Kurumi lynch but when questioned on if he actually believes the vote though, he responds to redtooth with:



Which seems like a throw-away reason.

For that, I ask that Amber start to post more. His excuse that he's at work and so he can't do much is nulled by the fact that he generally posts a lot anyway as can be seen in insane 1, and insane 2. He hasn't contributed much to the discussion even though he's clearly caught up to speed and has been reading the thread. This same sentiment is also applied to GGQ.

He gives the advice to DropBear:



You need to better explain your reasoning for voting Kurumi (Pretty much that he was acting like serejai aka trolling and so he's probably scum) and why you're not posting as much