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Why Sen vs BoxeR was the best TSL3 series yet

Forum Index > PokerStrategy.com TSL3 Forum
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1 2 3 Next All
Stamper
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany148 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-18 10:51:04
April 18 2011 10:49 GMT
#1
[Spoiler, if you didnt watch the series yet and don't want to know the results, don't read the following]

In all the communities and live stream chats you see mainly 2 kinds of responses towards the RO 16 series between BoxeR and Sen.
The first group praises BoxeR and says things like "The emperor is back" etc.
The second group says they dont really see what was so great about his play.
So I just want to write up why to me this TvZ series was by far the best series in the TSL3 yet.
Going into the matches Sen was the clear favourite, performing well in the GSL World Tournament and practically in every other tournament he competes in. After BoxeR dropped out of Code S in a pretty disappointing fashion (especially his TvZ) people said he might retire soon etc. The liquibet stats also favoured Sen 5713 to 3331, despite BoxeR's fame and the many "auto-voters".
As the games went down I was really surprised how solid BoxeR's TvZ has got. His builds looked well thought-out and refined. He wasn't just going for cheesy rushes, but rather hit many intelligent timings to pressure Sen, trying to wear him down or slowing his tech down. His macro was not perfect, but he showed what he's famous for: great multi tasking, a very intelligent playstyle and all those little things like building the barracks at the mineral line to protect the SCV from drone harass and the awesome supply depot block at the Xel'Naga Tower on Terminus.
On the other hand Sen showed his great macro and great Muta control picking off tanks, drops and marines wherever he could.
This series was so fun to watch, because all the 5 games where close, there were no "lame-ass" 5 minute cheese games, there was no total dominance of the other player throughout a whole game, neither where the games full of big mistakes like the one between Adelscott and qxc. It was two players both capable of beating their opponent, there is no lag discussion (Korea <> Taiwan should be pretty good) and no big balance discussion (TvZ is probably the most balanced matchup right now) and it was pleasant to see BoxeR doing so well against such a strong player as Sen - especially considering his TvZ history in Starcraft 2.
The series was close, the games were entertaining, both players played well and BoxeR showed everybody he's still a force to reckon with.
Thanks to both players for this great series and hopefully we'll see more amazing matchups like that in the next rounds of TSL3.
Majesty
Profile Joined December 2010
Iceland33 Posts
April 18 2011 12:02 GMT
#2
I totally agree.
[.GEGT1337.]Majesty - Calm like a bomb
Zeiryuu
Profile Joined March 2010
Philippines231 Posts
April 18 2011 12:23 GMT
#3
BoxeR vs Sen was definitely one of the best, if not the best, series in TSL3. BoxeR has been performing pretty well and would love to see him in the finals.
timestep
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada73 Posts
April 18 2011 12:27 GMT
#4
This series brought a tear to my eye. It was beautiful.
"whoop whoop whoop whoop" - Dr. Zoidberg
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10304 Posts
April 18 2011 12:36 GMT
#5
hope BoxeR goes all the way, would truly be amazing TSL story
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Jojo131
Profile Joined January 2011
Brazil1631 Posts
April 18 2011 12:40 GMT
#6
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"

I'd say that Mondragon vs Cruncher games were my favorite, if only for the reason that Mondragon has some really cool multi-pronged roach attacks.
Stamper
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany148 Posts
April 18 2011 12:46 GMT
#7
On April 18 2011 21:40 Jojo131 wrote:
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"


Absolutely.
Generally the series wasn't thaaaaa...at good. It was just good. Solid. Fun to watch. And good to see BoxeR's performing well again. And probably the rest of the TSL matches up to now made it look a lot better than it actually was.
Armathai
Profile Joined October 2007
1023 Posts
April 18 2011 12:49 GMT
#8
Definitely an awesome series! I knew BoxeR vs Sen was going to be amazing just because those two players are both legends and awesome in so many manners!
I woulda said Mondragon vs Cruncher + Show Spoiler +
but cruncher had to cannonrush -.-
but alas it wasn't meant to be!
Looking for ArcticCerebrate formerly from @USEast
Dizzlecto
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Netherlands52 Posts
April 18 2011 12:49 GMT
#9
On April 18 2011 21:40 Jojo131 wrote:
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"

I'd say that Mondragon vs Cruncher games were my favorite, if only for the reason that Mondragon has some really cool multi-pronged roach attacks.

Mondragon vs Cruncher
Roach/Hydra vs Deathball

etc. etc. you see where im going with this...
Naver doter pro doter
Imperative
Profile Joined January 2011
Singapore22 Posts
April 18 2011 13:12 GMT
#10
Both Boxer and Sen played insanely well in the 5 games. Boxer was relentlessly aggressive and had great positioning as well as multipronged attacks for each game while Senn controlled his forces well and easily handled Boxer's early game pressure. I think both of these players would have deserved to move on to the Ro8 but in the end Boxer made it narrowly so lets see how far he goes (I'm still rooting mainly for MC and thorzain though)
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
April 18 2011 13:40 GMT
#11
I would have to agree. I'm glad this was the series I got to see live this weekend. Great play from both players and the action was non-stop. Most of the excitment has to be from the Emporer's great play despite everyone's doubts and it coming down to a deciding 5th game though. Awesome series.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Tumor
Profile Joined July 2010
Austria192 Posts
April 18 2011 13:41 GMT
#12
yes it was awesome! i have to watch it again today, becouse my GF interupted the series very effective. i need at least popcorn XD
lifecanwait
Profile Joined May 2010
96 Posts
April 18 2011 14:23 GMT
#13
Boxer's macro was not perfect? I am not a fan (of anyone), but all I've seen in this match was his perfect macro!
He sent wave after wave at Sen, marines+tanks. Ofc the rallies were not set to near the base, because this way Sen could have intercepted him and cut off his reinforcements.
Combine the macro + all the drop action and I guess Boxer is in a very good state atm. I'd go so far as to say that he can compete with the best once again. He knows everything about good positioning and when to attack or to retreat. This is simply all his BW experience that comes out there...

Sen could have done a few things better though, like getting Infestor + Hive tech units. Banelings aren't good enough when marines stim + run away + split. You need to fungle them asap.
dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-18 14:30:42
April 18 2011 14:27 GMT
#14
On April 18 2011 21:40 Jojo131 wrote:
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"

I'd say that Mondragon vs Cruncher games were my favorite, if only for the reason that Mondragon has some really cool multi-pronged roach attacks.


I don't think that can be clearly blamed on the players. Boxer most likely felt that marine tank was the best composition going into late game with Sen, and Sen could only respond with ling, baneling, mutas. If anything, Sen should have included infestors, but that may have been out of his comfort zone.

Maybe given a little more time, we'd see Boxer do what he does in TvT; innovation on the fly. That would be amazing.

On April 18 2011 23:23 lifecanwait wrote:
Boxer's macro was not perfect? I am not a fan (of anyone), but all I've seen in this match was his perfect macro!
He sent wave after wave at Sen, marines+tanks. Ofc the rallies were not set to near the base, because this way Sen could have intercepted him and cut off his reinforcements.
Combine the macro + all the drop action and I guess Boxer is in a very good state atm. I'd go so far as to say that he can compete with the best once again. He knows everything about good positioning and when to attack or to retreat. This is simply all his BW experience that comes out there...

Sen could have done a few things better though, like getting Infestor + Hive tech units. Banelings aren't good enough when marines stim + run away + split. You need to fungle them asap.


Game 5 showed how this intelligent rally would ensure Boxer his win. After failing to break Boxer's middle contain, Sen tried to wipe out reinforcements in the middle of the map with ling/bling/mutas to even the ground while losing his 7'oclock. When his units swung into the middle and waited, it could be seen that boxer's reinforcements were in front of his natural. Sen realized he couldn't pick off the reinforcements moving in one by one, so his last resort was to hit the 4th of Boxer (which would then be fended off by the mass of marines and tanks sitting outside his natural).
Yargh
excal
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada166 Posts
April 18 2011 15:01 GMT
#15
Boxer's macro was far from perfect. He was sitting on 2k minerals at several times during the series.

Well played and i'm glad boxer won though.
Invoker
Profile Joined October 2010
Belgium686 Posts
April 18 2011 15:17 GMT
#16
I can't agree more.
There is no fate, but what we make.
LanTAs
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1091 Posts
April 18 2011 15:33 GMT
#17
On April 18 2011 21:40 Jojo131 wrote:
My only real gripe about this series (from my recollection) is that all the games were pretty much Marine/Tank vs Muta/Ling with some variants here and there. The back and forth action was really fun to see, but every battle felt like:

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 1.... FIGHT!"

up until

"Mutaling vs Marine/tank round 7.... can someone switch things up a bit pls?"

I'd say that Mondragon vs Cruncher games were my favorite, if only for the reason that Mondragon has some really cool multi-pronged roach attacks.


hehehehe welcome to TvZ
Marine Tank is used due to the fact that you can sit on your ass and shell out huuuge amounts of damage once you are sieged, and marines destroy mutas once they reach a good number.
Muta/Ling is highly mobile and can pretty much run around tanks and do huuuge harassment style.

so thats a quick explanation of why its always marine tank vs muta ling.
Stamper
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany148 Posts
April 18 2011 15:35 GMT
#18
On April 19 2011 00:01 excal wrote:
Boxer's macro was far from perfect. He was sitting on 2k minerals at several times during the series.

Well played and i'm glad boxer won though.


Especially on Xel Naga he often had just 1 Marine in production while sitting on 1.5k mins and having like 4 Barracks with Reactors.
Logros
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands9913 Posts
April 18 2011 15:47 GMT
#19
Definitely my favorite match so far in the TSL as well. Boxer played so much better than any of the SC2 games I've seen of him so far. I hope he can keep this up in Code A as well.
And it was great to see all the little touches like funky barracks placements at the start and the depot wall for a few marines to secure a watchtower against zerglings. I can't wait to see what he comes up with next!
Roeder
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark735 Posts
April 18 2011 15:59 GMT
#20
Best series I've ever seen live. Hands down.

It was so exciting.
Starcraft is a mix between chess, poker and a Michael Bay movie.
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