• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:46
CEST 03:46
KST 10:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)71ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Farewell Beloved Starcraft (Youtube Videos) ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7528 users

[H] PvZ Trouble Since Dallas

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
TechnoSchaman
Profile Joined October 2010
United States156 Posts
April 06 2011 16:24 GMT
#1
Diamond 3300 (season 1) Protoss
I'm sure there are threads out there about this topic but I havent been able to find any since Dallas occured. What I'm referring to is the mass burrow move roaches. I don't have any replays as it is more of an overall concern I'm having (but can find some if need be)

This isnt any sort of balance issue as I know it can be beat.

My usual build in PvZ is a 3gate expand with hallucination, unless i scout the roach warren earlier in which case I go robo. With the Hallucination build, I usually see the lair morphing close to completion and the roach warren moving telling me exactly what i wish to know. The problem, however, is I never seem to be able to get enough units at this point to hold the push but still end up with a worse economy after the attack. And even if I do hold it, they usually have a bigger army queued up or have tech switched into hydra or muta (depending on my number of immortals)
I'm always stuck at a certain point trying to decide if i should get the robo just for observer and go Stargate, or if it makes sense to double robo Immortal, or the somewhat effect mass sentry zealot, to lay FF's on top of roaches and prevent unburrow. Ive been losing to this build for 2 days straight now as every Diamond Zerg seems to have been watching Idra play.

TLDR; Burrow move roaches are dominating me. What is the best decision to make after a 3gate expand if i see the roach warren moving, and lair finishing. Robo or Stargate play, early aggression, gateway push with obs, anything I'm missing...

Going to play a lot tonight, so will upload a replay if it is needed, but hopefully people will have just some general thoughts for me.
Thanks

HelloSon
Profile Joined April 2010
United States456 Posts
April 06 2011 16:27 GMT
#2
Get a robo, observer, and turtle, turtle, turtle.
yo
`Zapdos
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States935 Posts
April 06 2011 16:32 GMT
#3
Include a replay when making a qq thread or it's worthless because we can't help you at all.
www.twitch.tv/thezapdos come watch me :]
Hyst3ria
Profile Joined December 2007
United States167 Posts
April 06 2011 16:32 GMT
#4
Forge and cannon your nat ... with force fields you should come out ahead since he stops droning for a timing push.
TechnoSchaman
Profile Joined October 2010
United States156 Posts
April 06 2011 16:37 GMT
#5
Zapdos, I'm not asking for you to critique MY play, as i know I lost because of things I did wrong. I'm asking for what people do in situations in their OWN games. I just want to hear what people are having success with, thanks for the input though.... And as for Hysteria. I usually have 2 or 3 cannons at my nat and rarely flat out lose to the timing push, its the afterwards thats the problem. Right around the time they'd be taking their third I just cant quite make the most educated decision where to go from that point.
Techno
Profile Joined June 2010
1900 Posts
April 06 2011 16:41 GMT
#6
Replay dammit!
Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!
`Zapdos
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States935 Posts
April 06 2011 16:43 GMT
#7
On April 07 2011 01:37 TechnoSchaman wrote:
Zapdos, I'm not asking for you to critique MY play, as i know I lost because of things I did wrong. I'm asking for what people do in situations in their OWN games. I just want to hear what people are having success with, thanks for the input though.... And as for Hysteria. I usually have 2 or 3 cannons at my nat and rarely flat out lose to the timing push, its the afterwards thats the problem. Right around the time they'd be taking their third I just cant quite make the most educated decision where to go from that point.


Keep going hallu, once you scout roaches check for a third, continuously scoutc 2-4 pheonixes and make sure you know if he's expanding or doing extremely aggressive 2 base. Get a robo as soon as your scout roaches and get an observer followed by immortals. Remember keep scouting, if he switches to hydra just go to collosus and keep turtling. If you turtle he shouldn't be able to damage you and his 2 base timing won't be very effective.
www.twitch.tv/thezapdos come watch me :]
DoctaD
Profile Joined December 2010
35 Posts
April 06 2011 16:46 GMT
#8
whenever i 3 gate expand against zerg. i push with my 2 sentries and a zealot, warp in units from a proxy pylon and put pressure. at the same time expand. the point of this is not that you deal huge amounts of damage, but is to force them to make units instead of drones.
FeelGood
Profile Joined March 2011
United States23 Posts
April 06 2011 16:47 GMT
#9
I usually tech to colossus with an observer so they can't unburrow and snipe my colossus, but otherwise I think stargate tech is better with voidrays. Either way, you want colossus for the hydras and a few voidrays to take care of the roaches. Dt's are nice too for pressure. But, like zapdos said, theres not much to be said without a replay.
HUK | HERO
Allred
Profile Joined November 2010
United States352 Posts
April 06 2011 16:47 GMT
#10
if you get hallucination you should be delaying your robo a little bit longer and you should have a forge for upgrades so getting a cannon or 2 at your natural will help, also when they attack and you forceifield there army and cut it in half if they burrow forward and its a small choke you can cast another forcefield and move your army back a little and get quite a few free shots- focus fire roaches so they die- don't select your whole army though to focus fire select 8 or so stalkers and have them focus fire a roach (shift quee) so they move on to the next roach when it is dead- this little bit of micro helps as you can then actually kill roaches when they are burrowed- any immortals will help as well
i am not sure how many stalkers is optimal for focus firing a roach as it would be hard to calculate with the fast regeneration.
An expert is a man who tells you a simple thing in a confused way in such a fashion as to make you think the confusion is your own fault. ~William Castle
Exley
Profile Joined April 2011
United States239 Posts
April 06 2011 17:02 GMT
#11
The earliest timing for the roachburrow push is around the 10 minute mark, so if you time out a cannon or observer to complete by the 9:30-10:00 mark you should be fine. The only times you should flat out die to this push are when you went stargate or straight to colossus without getting detection.
archangel2
Profile Joined March 2011
76 Posts
April 06 2011 17:17 GMT
#12
On April 07 2011 02:02 Exley wrote:
The earliest timing for the roachburrow push is around the 10 minute mark, so if you time out a cannon or observer to complete by the 9:30-10:00 mark you should be fine. The only times you should flat out die to this push are when you went stargate or straight to colossus without getting detection.


Yep I always get one cannon near my expo a few seconds after I expand. Then I chronoboost +1 attack on my forge and make a bunch of stalkers. One other neat trick that I think works if you have a lot of sentries is to FF on top of where the roaches are scheduled to unburrow so that they can't pop up.
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11305 Posts
April 06 2011 17:19 GMT
#13
Due to the lack of a replay, this thread is pure theory. Closing.
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
23:30
FSL TeamLeague: ST vs POG
Freeedom28
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft734
ViBE168
NeuroSwarm 145
CosmosSc2 75
FoxeR 74
Nina 64
ProTech25
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 45
MaD[AoV]30
Purpose 21
League of Legends
JimRising 671
Counter-Strike
taco 203
minikerr11
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe202
Other Games
summit1g13037
Liquid`Ken7
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3221
Other Games
gamesdonequick890
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 74
• EnkiAlexander 55
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Douyu Cup 2020
3h 14m
Maestros of the Game
10h 44m
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
12h 14m
Bonyth vs TerrOr
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
XuanXuan vs TBD
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 3h
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 12h
Mihu vs TBD
Online Event
1d 13h
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
OSC
4 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.