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Terran - The Real Cost of Units

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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1 2 3 Next All
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 16:54:22
March 18 2011 15:58 GMT
#1
I've made a table that I found myself constantly referring to when planning Build Orders. It is fairly straight-forward and should be of use to people who don't want to do manual look-ups and google math. This is more useful for T given their production mechanics, and less so for Z/P, given their respective larvae and warp-in and chronoboost mechanics .

The table is normalized by time and food, example:

On the surface, a siege tank costs 150 minerals, 125 gas, 45 seconds, and 3 food.

3 Food is equivalent of 3/8th of a supply depot, or 37.5 minerals, meaning that a siege tank consumes 187.5 minerals, 125 gas, in 45 seconds => meaning that siege tank production will cost you 250 minerals, 166 gas per minute (though you are getting 1 and 1/3rd of a siege tank).

Note that this does NOT take into account of lost mining time of the SCV when making the supply depots/factories/etc.

Why is this useful? Because income per base is normalized to per minute, ie. 2 base Terran averages an income of of ~1800 minerals and 456 gas per minute. Suppose there was a unit that costs 1500 minerals and 1500 gas but took an hour to build, is it "expensive"? nah. Same analogy goes for upgrades, they're actually really cheap, but just have a high "up-front" cost.

Unit Mineral Gas
Units
+ Show Spoiler +

SCV 221 0
Marine 150 0
Marauder 250 50
Reaper 83 67
Ghost 263 225
Hellion 250 0
Siege Tank 250 167
Thor 375 200
Viking 250 107
Medivac 179 143
Raven 125 200
Banshee 188 100
BattleCruiser 317 200


Upgrades
+ Show Spoiler +
L1 Infantry 38 38
L2 Infantry 55 55
L3 Infantry 68 68
L1 Vehicle 38 38
L2 Vehicle 55 55
L3 Vehicle 68 68
L1 Ship Weapons 38 38
L2 Ship Weapons 55 55
L3 Ship Weapons 68 68
L1 Ship Plating 56 56
L2 Ship Plating 71 71
L3 Ship Plating 82 82
Stimpack 43 43
Combat Shields 55 55
Concussive Shells 50 50
Infernal Pre-igniter 82 82
Siege Tech 75 75
Ghost cloak 150 150
Ghost Energy 75 75



Structures
+ Show Spoiler +
Command Center 240 0
Barracks 150 0
Ebay 214 0
Bunker 171 0
Sensor Tower 300 240
Missile Turret 240 0
Factory 150 100
Ghost Academy 225 75
Starport 180 120
Armory 138 92
Fusion Core 138 138
Tech Lab 120 60
Reactor 60 60


Example of calculating a build's production capability, ex, my 1 rax FE TvZ build:
+ Show Spoiler +

Total Minerals/Gas Available per minute: 1800/456

2CC - SCVs (440 / 0)
1 Fact Tanks (250 / 167)
1 Port Medivac (179/143) - Alternate with 1 Raven (125/200)
Infantry Weapons Ups (38/38)
Stimpack (43/43), then switch to Siege Tech (75/75)
Combat Shields (55/55), then switch to Infantry Armor Ups (38/38)
Constant Missile Turrets (240/0)

1,245 Minerals and ~446 Gas consumption per minute -

The remaining (1,800-1,245 = 555 minerals) allow me to produce off 4-5 rax marines (with perfect macro)

Units that are bold can be reactored - meaning their costs can be DOUBLED if you attach a reactor

Some take home messages:

1. Command Centers are fairly cheap, don't be afraid to build them
2. Ghosts are expensive as hell, requiring the most gas of any unit, structure, or upgrade. But then again, most people will never do constant ghost production.
3. BCs are actually "cheaper" than thors
4. Upgrades are cheaper than units, get them.
griffith.583 (NA)
Foxcraft
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland32 Posts
March 18 2011 16:08 GMT
#2
"meaning that in one minute, a siege tank costs 250 minerals, 166 gas. "

wait what?
If it bleeds, we can kill it.
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 16:11:27
March 18 2011 16:10 GMT
#3
It means that when you're a planning a build order and calculating the # of tanks you can make, siege tanks really cost 250 minerals/166 gas per MINUTE, which is what base income is calculated as.

Sorry I meant one and one-third of a siege tanks costs 250 minerals/166 gas per minute

(1 Base income is 800-900 minerals a minute, ~225 gas a minute)
griffith.583 (NA)
Foxcraft
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland32 Posts
March 18 2011 16:11 GMT
#4
On March 19 2011 01:10 Griffith` wrote:
It means that when you're a planning a build order and calculating the # of tanks you can make, siege tanks really cost 250 minerals/166 gas per MINUTE, which is what base income is calculated as.

Sorry I meant one and one-third of a siege tanks costs 250 minerals/166 gas per minute

(1 Base income is 800-900 minerals a minute, ~225 gas a minute)

And how did he calculate that tanks costs that much in minute?
If it bleeds, we can kill it.
nakam
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden245 Posts
March 18 2011 16:12 GMT
#5
Then you need to also calculate the lost mining time for the SCV building aswell. For example a supply depot costs closer to 125 minerals than 100.
TL Local Timezone Script - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=277156
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
March 18 2011 16:13 GMT
#6
On March 19 2011 01:12 nakam wrote:
Then you need to also calculate the lost mining time for the SCV building aswell. For example a supply depot costs closer to 125 minerals than 100.


hm I can add that in pretty easily actually -
griffith.583 (NA)
dementrio
Profile Joined November 2010
678 Posts
March 18 2011 16:13 GMT
#7
I see the point of having this data when planning out what production you want to have on X bases. But I don't think it makes sense to use this reasoning for buildings. You are not constantly producing ccs or turrets, not sure how it's relevant that their cost per minute is high or low.
jnkw
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada347 Posts
March 18 2011 16:14 GMT
#8
I fail to see how an already built siege tank consumes resources per minute other than supply that you've already built.

Or maybe the OP's wording of "per minute" is very misleading.
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
March 18 2011 16:16 GMT
#9
On March 19 2011 01:14 jnkw wrote:
I fail to see how an already built siege tank consumes resources per minute other than supply that you've already built.

Or maybe the OP's wording of "per minute" is very misleading.


Sorry I meant production of siege tank from the factory will cost you that much per minute - I will fix wording to be a bit better
griffith.583 (NA)
oblong
Profile Joined January 2011
United States86 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 16:19:30
March 18 2011 16:16 GMT
#10
interesting way to look at it
jnkw
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada347 Posts
March 18 2011 16:18 GMT
#11
On March 19 2011 01:16 Griffith` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 01:14 jnkw wrote:
I fail to see how an already built siege tank consumes resources per minute other than supply that you've already built.

Or maybe the OP's wording of "per minute" is very misleading.


Sorry I meant production of siege tank from the factory will cost you that much per minute - I will fix wording to be a bit better


Okay that makes a lot more sense now Thanks for clarifying.
MavercK
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2181 Posts
March 18 2011 16:18 GMT
#12
On March 19 2011 01:14 jnkw wrote:
I fail to see how an already built siege tank consumes resources per minute other than supply that you've already built.

Or maybe the OP's wording of "per minute" is very misleading.


your income is based per minute. so 2000 minerals per minute
how many factories do you need to make constant siege tanks but not overdo it?

this lets you.
Brood War Remake - SC2BW - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145316
Foxcraft
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland32 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 16:22:05
March 18 2011 16:20 GMT
#13
On March 19 2011 01:10 Griffith` wrote:
It means that when you're a planning a build order and calculating the # of tanks you can make, siege tanks really cost 250 minerals/166 gas per MINUTE, which is what base income is calculated as.

No they dont.

When you calculate, how much one siege tank costs in minute, it is 150minerals and 125 gas and 3 supply. But you get also one third of another siege tanks.

It is about, how much you PAY FOR YOUR TOTAL TANKS per minute. Then you can add up cost of one siege tank and 1/3 of another siege tanks cost.
If it bleeds, we can kill it.
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
March 18 2011 16:22 GMT
#14
On March 19 2011 01:20 Foxcraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 01:10 Griffith` wrote:
It means that when you're a planning a build order and calculating the # of tanks you can make, siege tanks really cost 250 minerals/166 gas per MINUTE, which is what base income is calculated as.

No they dont.

When you calculate, how much one siege tank costs in minute, it is 150minerals and 125 gas and 3 supply. But you get also one third of another siege tanks.


I already fixed this in OP
griffith.583 (NA)
michaelhasanalias
Profile Joined May 2010
Korea (South)1231 Posts
March 18 2011 16:22 GMT
#15
You should also to buildings and lost mining time. You can use each one as a table for 18 and 39minerals/min income. This would be the cost of pulling the worker off and mining. Also factor in some added travel time or give the option.

Anyway stuff like this is always a joy to read, because it's extremely helpful in refining, or at least in understanding why a build order program like carbontwelve's does certain things.
KR NsPMichael.805 | AM Michael.2640 | SEA Michael.523 | 엔에스피 New Star Players
Foxcraft
Profile Joined October 2010
Finland32 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 16:23:09
March 18 2011 16:22 GMT
#16
On March 19 2011 01:22 Griffith` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 19 2011 01:20 Foxcraft wrote:
On March 19 2011 01:10 Griffith` wrote:
It means that when you're a planning a build order and calculating the # of tanks you can make, siege tanks really cost 250 minerals/166 gas per MINUTE, which is what base income is calculated as.

No they dont.

When you calculate, how much one siege tank costs in minute, it is 150minerals and 125 gas and 3 supply. But you get also one third of another siege tanks.


I already fixed this in OP

I know, but it is not correctly said how you wrote it. It is actually about how much you pay for your TOTAL AMOUNT of tanks per minute.
If it bleeds, we can kill it.
Ponyo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1231 Posts
March 18 2011 16:41 GMT
#17
Griffith's Units™



jk man, interesting topic, glad to see this kind of information laid out in such a presentable fashion.
Never really thought about why upgrades were good early on, i would just get them. Thanks for this valuable information.
ponyo.848
Griffith`
Profile Joined September 2010
714 Posts
March 18 2011 17:31 GMT
#18
I will update the table to reflect construction costs later on tonight - building times for buildings vary - so I 'll need to do some tweaks to get their mineral cost
griffith.583 (NA)
TryThis
Profile Joined February 2007
Canada1522 Posts
March 18 2011 17:37 GMT
#19
This is a really cool concept, i never really thought about the cost of anything that way.
I always considered depots a secondary cost, that it just always there. Cool idea!
Dwell
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-18 23:52:54
March 18 2011 18:17 GMT
#20
The wording of this post is a bit vague.

Basically it is just a table of costs per minute for the various units including their supply needs.
The word 'normalized' for example isn't applied properly here.

Also the conclusions you draw from this is are completely WRONG. You can't use this table to considering if units are cheaper or not then others, it only sais how much production capacity you can afford.
In your reasoning a unit would be nerfed if it's buildtime would be decreased because according to you it would get 'more expensive'. That offcourse is idiotic and using this table to argue that upgrades are cheap or BC's are cheaper then thors is stupid.

The level of math or insight with numbers of some of these TL posts is just rediculous... (right, should be ridiculous..)
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