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Preface: I'm a low master Protoss player. I don't think warp gates are overpowered, but I think they are stupid in their simplicity (you don't have to choose between gateways and warp gates, the decision is made for you).
Problem: Protoss players are not given an option as to whether or not they want to use warp gates: Warp gate research is very low tech, costs basically nothing, and is incredibly good. To not get warp gate research is essentially bad, no thought required.
Possible solution: Instead of warp gates simply making your gateways way, way better, perhaps you could actually be given a choice as to whether or not you want to use them:
+ Show Spoiler +Warp gates: The cooldown of units is marginally higher than the build time from a gateway, but you can warp units in anywhere you have pylon/prism power.
Gateways: You can produce units marginally faster, but have reinforce distance (and can't instantly warp in, say, stalkers to defend from mutas in your base, or something).
You could still have interesting timing pushes with warp gates:
+ Show Spoiler +Ex. When warp gate research finishes, you get one last round of units out, then change to warp gates, and warp in 4 more units at a proxy pylon for your push.
However, your reinforcements after that initial push will be marginally delayed in comparison to a defending protoss player who is using gateways instead.
Players also might find it a good idea to have some gateways and some warp gates. I know it's often a good idea to "always be using your warp gates, but never using all of them", for situational warp-ins.
To keep the game balanced, warpgate research could also reduce the build time from gateways slightly. So basically, every unit from a warpgate might have a 5 second increased cooldown from the current game, and every unit from a gateway (after warpgate research is done) could have a 5 second reduced build time. Something like that. Exact numbers don't matter in this discussion, just giving ideas.
Thoughts?
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I prefer the way the game is now. Terrans use the old-fashion RTS macro, Zergs use larva macro and Protoss have the newly-introduced warp-in macro.
Also, wasnt this suggested before?
If you want to fix PvP, just make warpgate a no-tech requirement but requires a robo to be used. Makes total sense, completly forbids pure gateway play which everybody hates unless people go for the usual gates.
Also, might reduce a bit the production time for stalkers - not for zealots due to proxies - so pure-gateway isn't totally bad.
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I had an idea - Warp Gate Range
It presents certain problems though.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On February 07 2011 10:26 Kyhol wrote:
I had an idea - Warp Gate Range
It presents certain problems though.
I had an idea for zergling speed, dunno if it was good kinda eh maybe.
Pretty useful post right?
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On February 07 2011 10:28 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2011 10:26 Kyhol wrote:
I had an idea - Warp Gate Range
It presents certain problems though. I had an idea for zergling speed, dunno if it was good kinda eh maybe. Pretty useful post right?
Rofl, I think he was simply suggesting that warp gates have a maximum range, and then also admitted it would pose problems.
I think it would KIND of defeat the idea of warp gates. Think about warp prisms, lol.
My main problem is that you don't EVER want to use gateways once you have completed warp gate research. It's dumb.
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On February 07 2011 10:26 Zephirdd wrote:
I prefer the way the game is now. Terrans use the old-fashion RTS macro, Zergs use larva macro and Protoss have the newly-introduced warp-in macro.
Also, wasnt this suggested before? Yeah, I think it's pretty cool, when my friends ask me what this SC2 is and how it works I'm always like 'Well, it's an asymmetrical RTS' and they're like 'asymmetrical?' and I'm like 'Yeah, it means that the three races you can play are basically nothing alike, most RTS games have that units have 'counterparts' in different races that fulfill the same role but not in SC2, you even produce units completely differently in all three races. The Terrans just have them come rolling out of buildings like you expect, Zerg have some funny system called larvae in that larvae are 'proto-units' that can morph into other units you need and your objective as zerg is to basically get a lot of larvae ready, provides some flexibility as you can save and store them for later use. And Protoss have 'warp ins', basically their units just magically appear in their 'pylon matrix', so they can choose the location their units land in and can instantly re-enforce all over the map.'
And then they're like 'Wow, I used to play Red alert back in the days, but it didn't have this, that's pretty deep'.
On February 07 2011 10:26 Kyhol wrote:
I had an idea - Warp Gate Range
It presents certain problems though. What I still think should happen is that warp gates should just get a bloody queue and a really point. Units will just warp in the closest to the rally point that still is in the pylon matrix and walk the rest, if it's already in the pylon matrix, well...
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It's a fine line, since build time for zealots has already been increased, so clearly something about the shorter build time was bothering Blizzard. Even a small reduction to gateway build time could have a massive impact on early game pushes and timings.
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The biggest problem with warpgate tech I have is the cost. For something that's basically mandatory for Protoss it's absurdly cheap
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i like the idea of warpgates being robo tech, i think it'd suit the game very well and would also give even more incentive to get a robo even if your not getting colossus or immortals. Now all we have to do is what for someone at blizzard to have the exact same idea or...we...could...do...the....unthinkable
inception
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On February 07 2011 10:32 lolsixtynine wrote:
It's a fine line, since build time for zealots has already been increased, so clearly something about the shorter build time was bothering Blizzard. Even a small reduction to gateway build time could have a massive impact on early game pushes and timings.
The reduced build time from gateways would only happen AFTER warp gate research is done, so this would not be affected.
On February 07 2011 10:32 jhsu98 wrote:
The biggest problem with warpgate tech I have is the cost. For something that's basically mandatory for Protoss it's absurdly cheap
If it's mandatory, why does it have a cost at all? It just shouldn't be mandatory. This thread isn't about warp gates being OP (cost included) or not. It's about warp gates being silly.
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17082 Posts
So something that's important to note about balance threads is that the change will never get instituted. That being said, they serve no purpose on the forums.
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EPT
