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Active: 1643 users

[M] (2) Forborne Fortune

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-04 07:41:56
February 04 2011 07:40 GMT
#1
Forborne Fortune 1.1

[image loading]

One has always the option not to, with the exception of fate.

Wow... my first map in the forum. I'm a little surprised it's been this long. I'm really only giving it a thread because it's only proper for a MotM submission, and I'm really only doing MotM because it happened to coincide with making this map. Skip to "Details" if you just want to look at the map and forgo my rambling.

+ Show Spoiler +
I have never created a map I consider a finished product--not by a long shot. Often, a simple idea, or a puzzle over how to execute a map feature, will consume me for a day or two. Once the editor is open, I try to lay it out as a draft, but inevitably I get bogged down in minute details. By a process of self-compromise, many hours later I will have created a full layout. If you give a mouse a cookie... he'll do some basic texturing and perfunctory doodad placement. But being a perfectionist and visionaryTM that also ends up being a project. Once ample swaths of time have been drained from my life, I have a creation worthy of playtesting. Or abandoning, once I see that it never did really come out right. But the process for me is most important; creative foment, churning analysis and imagination.

The inception for this map was the idea of having a natural with two entrances separated on the outside by DRocks. The fitting next step was to put a base on the outlying side. This ended up taking over as the focus, because Forborne Fortune hinges on the decision between a close, vulnerable third base or a medium distance third base more typically situated.

I've found that I naturally tend to create lots of cliffs and ramps, which unavoidably decreases the openness. In this map I knew I wanted multiple levels because it was integral to the design of the natural and the close third, so I was very deliberate about using wide pathways. Instead of zoning "open areas", I relied on wide routes and wide ramps to naturally create broad areas at their intersections. (This is exactly what happens outside the natural on XelNaga Caverns.) The result is that no one spot feels "open", but across much of the map you're just a corner away from breathing room.

Another proclivity of mine is that I see possibility in every inch of terrain, and it takes all my discipline not to design an infernal canyon network or an island made of destructible rocks whenever I concentrate on one spot for more than thirty seconds. Even placing a doodad can take me down a whole new path to enhance the tactical aspect of my terrain. This is what happened with the cliffs above the close third, where eventually I settled on using trees to make it a semi-island allowing small and medium units to walk in but requiring large (imba) guys to drop. This is used a couple other places less drastically. I am pleased with how the tactical features turned out. Overall the layout is somewhat unconventional but the main areas are standard enough. Around the map are plenty of places for tricks where they won't get in the way of standard procedure.


Details

Angled view and map analyzer + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


The most likely point of contention here is the cliff above the close third. Yes, you can easily harass that base with drops, or even just ranged guys on the cliff. That's the point. You'll note that map control, particularly solid presence at the watchtower there, lets you proactively fight that. You can use the small ramp at your natural to keep yourself relatively secure on the home front while maintaining position above the close third. Alternatively, if you have the right composition you can break your own rocks and guard the center of mass, using colossus to repel cliffers (for example).

The aesthetics are a "sketch with embellishment". I could spend a year texturing and placing doodads, which is not even considering decoration of the map exterior. I am satisfied by the atmosphere created and the differentiation provided by the textures. Nevertheless, how would you rate the looks?
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
February 04 2011 10:29 GMT
#2
I have to say that it is amazing how you managed to put so many different situation into this map. still, I think the map would be better, if it was simplified just a little bit. I feel there are to many ideas put into it.
this all leads to a very complex map. the layout is not really clear, probably too cluttered and too wide spread.

e.g. the fourth:
go clockwise and you have to deal with DRs, drops on highground and you are at he bottom end of another ramp. now you might decide tp push out, and control the left hand flank, but then you are pretty much out of position (far out 'left') and have to fortify your natural's ramp and you have to be afraid of cliffwalks via right hand third.
OR
go counter-clockwise and you have an open backdoor at your nat, that can be secured quite easily, you will move your forces in front of your main on low ground and and still you have to deal with attacks against your third at two openings.

for me it looks like the only way to feel safe is to establish map control, take nat and third, break DRs, expand again to your right hand side and take the counterclockwise watchtower. prepare to shift your forces from one side to the other and place them somewhere next to the former DRs...

this is all nothing bad at all, it just feels so unclear of how to play the map. given that custom maps have less playing time, maybe we desiner have to make more clear design decisions, one element ater the other, sothat maps are more clear of how to be played.

how could your map be a bit easier to be understood?
I would suggest to rotate both thirds (that are named thirds in the analyzer picture) a bit towards the outside, sothat there open side faces towards the centre, sothat i can switch more easily from centre towards backdoor at third, etc.
also the number of chokes and entrances should be smaller and the centre should be more open (central place could be just flat).
you could tale out some extra pathes, like the one at the xel naga watchtower.

I think you cold have taken your ideas and make two maps out of it
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-04 21:51:39
February 04 2011 20:58 GMT
#3
On February 04 2011 19:29 Samro225am wrote:
I have to say that it is amazing how you managed to put so many different situation into this map. still, I think the map would be better, if it was simplified just a little bit. ... given that custom maps have less playing time, maybe we desiner have to make more clear design decisions, one element ater the other, sothat maps are more clear of how to be played.

how could your map be a bit easier to be understood? ...

I think you cold have taken your ideas and make two maps out of it


Yes, I think you've covered it. I really agree that it's the job of the designer to provide a space which has options that communicate themselves. It's a very interesting question if we should err on the side of simplicity, at least for now, given that these maps will not have endless person-hours devoted to "solving" them. Perhaps from the perspective of design learning, we definitely should. There are so many things to test on this map, you would learn very little in 20 games. Whereas Neonights that funcmode just posted could tell you some useful things about terran and openness, and third proximity, and three-path maps.

I always think about the BW maps that were made the last 5 years or so, some of them with highly intricate designs. That level of depth was expected for the pro maps. I aspire to that, but I will also aspire to "grokability" even more. That's a term used a lot in discussing design of Magic: TG cards, borrowed from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Grok: to get it, to understand; almost viscerally. The most impactful thing a designer can do is create a puzzling setup that resolves itself into an "I grok!" moment.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your view. It's very valuable to hear an outside perspective, to confirm your worst fears. =D


edit: lol I just realized about iGrok's name too. ; )~
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
PiLoKo
Profile Joined January 2011
Mexico144 Posts
February 04 2011 22:09 GMT
#4
I love this map, looks pretty solid, with 2 options for the 4th, yeah, it seems a little complicated when it comes to play the map, but still looks great and ill definetly going to give it a try, keep the good work :O
I like to troll in-game :)
lovablemikey
Profile Joined October 2010
264 Posts
February 05 2011 01:39 GMT
#5
This map is super sweet! Every path flows into another path which branches off and back around and so forth. How cool is that!? Plus, it's my favorite tileset.

As far as a ratings on looks, I would give it a 6 out of 10. Without more doodads, the map looks a little over half finished to me. A fun layout is all you need though, and it looks like that's what you have.
[wh]_ForAlways
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States235 Posts
February 05 2011 01:47 GMT
#6
This is a pretty good looking map, imo. The main thing I would critique about it is removing the cliff in the middle to allow players to have a nice open space to engage. Perhaps even replace the cliff with a xel'naga tower, instead.
s031720
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden383 Posts
February 05 2011 02:04 GMT
#7
Looks really fun, and I agree with the above poster; the rocks in the middle should go.

I think it might be biased to siege-tanks, but that would remain to be seen.
Just another noob
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