• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:43
CET 22:43
KST 06:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1:
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle screp: Command line app to parse SC rep files [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2106 users

TL Mafia XXXVI

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 16 2011 08:08 GMT
#11
/in ^_^
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 17 2011 02:25 GMT
#34
On January 17 2011 09:16 LSB wrote:
Please add things to your profile. The more things in your profile, the harder it would be for the town to find you if you are mafia

OriginalName
Barundar
Pandain

Please add stuff to your profile. You don't want the clues to be. "A person who's name starts with B, and rhymes with radar killed LSB".

Thanks!


That reminds me. I better update mine!

muahaha. Now if anyone wants to find clues pointing to me, they will have to suffer by reading through English literature
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 21 2011 01:58 GMT
#136
On January 21 2011 10:55 Kavdragon wrote:
So...I'm bored. Can we start mayoral campaigns yet?


You can be like LSB and announce your scummy plan before the game has started so you have a cover once you get your anti-town alignment pm!
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 22 2011 23:20 GMT
#196
On January 23 2011 08:19 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2011 04:46 Kavdragon wrote:
On January 23 2011 04:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
SIGN ME THE FUCK UP


That was a fast two week ban...

My rage overcame the time space continuum which hypertransmuted 2 weeks into roughly 4 days.


Actually, I think it really has been 2 weeks and these hosts just take really, really long to get this game started :p
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 23 2011 02:10 GMT
#212
/confirm
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 23 2011 02:27 GMT
#227
On January 23 2011 11:25 ilovejonn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2011 11:23 Kavdragon wrote:
On January 23 2011 11:19 LunarDestiny wrote:
And out the blood flew. Black as night, black as blindfolds, black as... blood.

I thought the bolding of the text is suspicious, so I did some googling of "black black black."

http://www.blackblackandblack.com/

Are they basing the game on this site?

Just a small glimpse of the site.
Practice Areas - Overview
At the law offices of Black, Black, and Black, our lawyers our extensively trained and focused on four practices areas of law including personal injury, criminal, family, and medical malpractice.

Medical malpractice seemed to be the theme of this game. Any opinion?


Bolding of the words seems like it's too obvious, but that's just my opinion. (Since you asked.)

Woo, it does seem to be in theme with the scientists and stuff.


I assume black refers to the fact that their alignment is not revealed in this game. Normally, a scum would bleed red and a town would bleed green.

I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 23 2011 07:25 GMT
#287
I would like to announce my intention to run for Mayor on behalf of the Kavdragon sucks Party!

Do not allow yourselves to be deceived by his well thought out posts and eagerness to lead the town to victory. I promise a campaign that delivers straight facts, rather than the propaganda spewing machine he has created.

FACT:
Kavdragon was mafia in Pokemafia.
kitaman27 has never been mafia.

FACT:
Kavdragon has never correctly landed a vig hit.
kitaman27 has never missed a vig hit*

*while not being role blocked

FACT:
First is the worst.
Second is the best.
Third is the one with the treasure chest.

Now allow me to uncover some shocking revelations:

[image loading]

Using pro-town technology, I was able to uncover an additional hidden arrow. You heard it here first folks, kavdragon is a mod-confirmed scum.

On January 23 2011 12:27 Kavdragon wrote:
(PS, i might be an invincible Vigilante, that can protect anyone, and check two people for their role per night. It'd suck to pass up that awesome role in the mayor seat.)

Первым человеком, решить мою головоломка в этой кампании будет получить мое восхищение.
--отец КавДракона



For those too lazy to translate here is what that means:

lolz this town is full of noobs. Unless a brave, handsome individual comes forth to oppose me, this game is already over. Brb, going to kill some puppies.
-Kavdragon


I'm pretty sure I've seen similar symbols in a Call of Duty game in COMMUNIST RUSSIA! That's right, Kavdragon is a COMMUNIST. And what color do communists love? Red. What color is scum? Red. What color is the communist scum Kavdragon? Red

+ Show Spoiler [Text Endorsements] +

On August 9 1974 11:63 VER wrote:
Kav's the One. Kav for mayor.


On January 20 1961 11:63 Node wrote:
I Like Kav. Vote for Kav.


On January 22 2011 11:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I'm Meapak_Ziphh and I approve this message.


On January 22 2011 11:26 SiNiquity wrote:
I'm SiNiquity and I approve this message.


On January 21 2011 08:42 LSB wrote:
KAV 4 MAYOR!
I'll make you a mspaint poster!!!!




Hey look, he was even kind enough to provide the entire scum team! As mayor, these would be my first 5 targets. In addition, as I predict to be the number one scum target as mayor, I nominate Kavdragon as my bodyguard to soak up all the bullets aimed in my direction.

On January 23 2011 12:27 Kavdragon wrote:
Vote for Victory!

Vote for Kav!


Has anyone noticed he never indicated which side would be victorious? How convenient. Let me fix that for you.

On January 23 2011 12:27 Kavdragon wrote:
Vote for a mafia Victory!

Vote for Kav!
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 23 2011 20:18 GMT
#323
I think the best bodyguard selection method would be to select two first-time or relatively new players who might not be the most active. This would force the mafia to choose between picking off the experienced players or the bodyguards that they would normally live to late game in a normal setup.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 23 2011 21:47 GMT
#337
In regards to the Census, I think the best course of action would be to check the number of mafia every night. We can figure out the number of serial killers based on the number of deaths during the night. Finding out the number of dt's or godfathers would be nice, but not nearly as important as the mafia number. Since the alignments will not be revealed upon death, checking the mafia count with every census would help pin down if certain deaths were mafia or not.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 23 2011 22:41 GMT
#341
On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
1 Mafia, 1 Town BG:
This is the worst setup, and is likely what would happen if we tried to choose two mafia. As has been stated, this would essentially mean that the mafia could trade one of their own, for me. Bad trade for the town.


I would gladly trade myself for a mafia. The census is nice and all, but eliminating a scum would surely be worth the loss.

On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
The first check would go to finding the number of Mafia. After that, I would decide what to do based of of what happened during the day. For instance, while I agree with Kita that checking Mafia constantly would be nice for getting information out of lynches, I think that we can squeeze more information out of it.

Knowing that someone is mafia only helps if they are connected to someone else. As such I would only check mafia consecutively if the lynch target had a convincing connection to someone else.


The problem is that the mafia are always connected to each other. They know each others identities and will attempt to manipulate the town into saving one of their own. The ability to interpret lynch results should not be sacrificed in order to receive novelty information.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 23 2011 23:09 GMT
#346
On January 24 2011 08:02 Kavdragon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2011 07:41 kitaman27 wrote:
On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
1 Mafia, 1 Town BG:
This is the worst setup, and is likely what would happen if we tried to choose two mafia. As has been stated, this would essentially mean that the mafia could trade one of their own, for me. Bad trade for the town.


I would gladly trade myself for a mafia. The census is nice and all, but eliminating a scum would surely be worth the loss.

On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
The first check would go to finding the number of Mafia. After that, I would decide what to do based of of what happened during the day. For instance, while I agree with Kita that checking Mafia constantly would be nice for getting information out of lynches, I think that we can squeeze more information out of it.

Knowing that someone is mafia only helps if they are connected to someone else. As such I would only check mafia consecutively if the lynch target had a convincing connection to someone else.


The problem is that the mafia are always connected to each other. They know each others identities and will attempt to manipulate the town into saving one of their own. The ability to interpret lynch results should not be sacrificed in order to receive novelty information.


Yes, trading a townie for a mafia is a good trade, but I think that the mayor was given an informational power that should not so carelessly be thrown away. I do not agree that trading any one person would be worth it however. For instance, if there was a DT in the mayor seat, i think that it would be worth one mafia. (Note, this is NOT a claim, so please don't hound me as if it were.)


Once you find a single mafia, you are much more likely to find others. Since there are clues, the dt becomes even less relied on. I still believe any person, regardless of role, would be worth the trade.

On January 24 2011 08:02 Kavdragon wrote:
Also, I'd check the number of mafia first. If the number is odd, then the number of KP shown the next night will tell us if we were right or not. It would be a waste to use the Mayor's power to double check this.


If a mafia and SK hit overlaps than it would appear as if we had decreased the kp, when in reality we did not. As a result, the next lynch would be based upon false assumptions. I don't think that it would be a waste.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 24 2011 00:50 GMT
#364
On January 24 2011 09:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
For instance in Haunted Mafia, people focused heavily on the "silver hammer" in one clue and the "baseball bat" in another when both were completely irrelevant.


Maybe if there wasn't a guy whose only picture was A DUDE WITH A BASEBALL BAT, then that wouldn't have been a problem :p
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 24 2011 03:07 GMT
#394
On January 24 2011 12:05 OriginalName wrote:
Just my two sense but remember this.

Show nested quote +
In addition. There was a red herring in this story
“...the hell? That sounds like... Spoon?”

Spoon is an indie rock band. It says in Node’s profile that he listens to indie rock. Therefore, the clue points to him.

There will not be many intentional red herrings, but as the stories become more detailed, there may be some.


Who knows maybe the Black could be such a red herring to throw us off >_>.


Wouldn't the correct response be that "cat" and "luck" are the red herrings? I don't think black is really the thing people are focused on.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 24 2011 03:52 GMT
#411
The Kavdragon Sucks Party is happy announce its official endorsement for Kavdragon as mayor!
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 24 2011 04:13 GMT
#422
On January 24 2011 13:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Kita why have you stopped running?


Kavdragon was victorious in the primary, so now we must band together against the tyranny of DrHelvetica in the general election.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 24 2011 20:35 GMT
#496
On January 25 2011 05:29 LSB wrote:
For clues about d3_cresentia and Deconduo, please use Pandain's and DoctorHelvetica's profiles

Clues for d3_cresentia
Clues for Deconduo


You can't fool us!

On January 24 2011 11:01 Node wrote:
We all first met at a party in Florida. A ‘pre-sailing’ party as they said.


Deconduo
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 24 2011 21:25 GMT
#507
On January 25 2011 06:23 Jackal58 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2011 06:22 zerroth wrote:
On January 25 2011 06:16 aidnai wrote:
Anyone else notice that LSB is just spamming one liners with no analysis, always discussing game setup and he only posts when called out? I didn't know it was possible to be this scummy!

## Vote: LSB



is this a serious post?

Looked serious to me.


Are you defending LSB, zerroth? You're acting pretty scummy as well.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 24 2011 21:38 GMT
#511
On January 25 2011 06:31 zerroth wrote:
LSB is already dead


You killed him, didn't you?
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 25 2011 02:23 GMT
#565
On January 25 2011 11:17 BrownBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2011 10:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On January 25 2011 10:37 BrownBear wrote:
I would think RoL would have posted saying "NVM guys, my bad, don't want to be mayor after all..." Perhaps he's feeling apathetic about this game as well? If so, why is he still playing? Apathy shouldn't be tolerated.

I'll switch over to Kav in a second. Let's not just all agree on killing ON right now though. More discussion/analysis = better chance of killing someone. Also, ON isn't really doing a good job of defending himself if he actually is scum. Typically scum are more active in their defense, and will usually try to deflect suspicion onto someone else, or highlight someone else's scummy behavior. Basically, draw suspicion away from them, not act like the suspicion is no big deal. That speaks apathetic townie to me, not scum.

I agree that we shouldn't be 100% locked into lynching ON but as Ilovejonn (can I abbreviate to ILJ?) pointed out, ON has done a couple of weakish and scummish defenses of himself. Right now I'm inclined to say he's a SK rather than mafia but either would be a good kill. However I will (and I hope Kav does as well) continue to look around to make sure we have the best fit for the clue.


Honestly, if we become convinced he's SK, we should just make him a bodyguard, and lynch him at our leisure.


I'm not sure why we would be convinced he is SK, but to put someone who is likely an outed scum into a bodyguard position doesn't seem to make much sense to me.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 25 2011 02:27 GMT
#568
On January 25 2011 11:25 Pandain wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Pandain wants YOU for the Team mini mafia replacements. Just join and vote nemesis.

Remember, only you can prevent mafia victory in the next 30 minutes


Heh I already volunteered, still waiting to hear back from Incognito
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
21:00
Best Games of Starcraft
SHIN vs ByuN
Reynor vs Classic
TBD vs herO
Maru vs SHIN
TBD vs Classic
PiGStarcraft216
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft177
ProTech149
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 170
Dewaltoss 122
Aegong 61
Hyun 55
Mong 39
Dota 2
PGG 68
Counter-Strike
byalli1571
fl0m1263
Foxcn175
adren_tv80
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu512
Other Games
Grubby5477
FrodaN1068
RotterdaM392
B2W.Neo322
C9.Mang0154
Trikslyr61
ZombieGrub29
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 46
• davetesta19
• Hupsaiya 14
• RyuSc2 3
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• XenOsky 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21175
• WagamamaTV1018
Other Games
• imaqtpie1703
• Shiphtur187
• tFFMrPink 21
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
12h 17m
WardiTV 2025
13h 17m
Reynor vs MaxPax
SHIN vs TBD
Solar vs herO
Classic vs TBD
SC Evo League
14h 47m
Ladder Legends
21h 17m
BSL 21
22h 17m
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 12h
Ladder Legends
1d 19h
BSL 21
1d 22h
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.