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On January 20 2011 22:46 Hesmyrr wrote:Seconding the opinion that discussing town PR action is rather pointless, since the setup isn't themed or anything. Trying to direct their actions just open up tons of WIFOM on the later days. Is lynching inactives good idea? Hum, let me throw down the gauntlet. ##Vote BloodyC0bblercheck the thread faster 
check the thread faster? There were 4-5 posts when I went to bed at 2am. Nothing to talk about then nothing to talk about.
However, your first and only post into the game day is not a FoS but a vote? aren't you brave. Pretty well a guarentee that I won't be inactive, and anyone worried of such a happenstance should take a gander over to the other game I'm in.
Now as for day 1, until someone royally messes up this will be a FoS game. For the people giving advice to blues, that is cool thing to do, but with this set of players we should all know the game by now let alone feels like forced activity.
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On January 21 2011 02:23 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 02:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Now as for day 1, until someone royally messes up this will be a FoS game. For the people giving advice to blues, that is cool thing to do, but with this set of players we should all know the game by now let alone feels like forced activity. I don't see much wrong with forced activity.
In my experience someone who does it now usually manages to slip by as hiding red longer then they should. Activity is good if its constructive and useful, but when 3-4 people start talking about how blues should operate I get concerned.
Keep in mind this is because in times long gone talking about blues usually revolved around making lists for medic prots, and lists for dt checks, etc... which at least force people to pipe up and agree or disagree, whereas at the moment its generic rehashed stuff everyone should know. I do however think the links you made two the newbie guide/last game to show why its needed was awesome.
Activity should not be forced as it comes off that way, if you want to force someone to post, just FoS them, or analyze a few of their posts and force them out of their shell, that way their activity won't be forced, and lets you get a read on them.
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On January 21 2011 07:16 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 07:11 chaoser wrote:On January 21 2011 06:50 Pandain wrote:
I don't like this post either. Let's take a look at it.
First off, lynching inactives itself is a bad strategy. I shall be lenient to him because even I make this mistake, but lynching inactives is a horrible thing to do.
When we say "lynch inactives", we mean "lynch lurkers." We want to differentiate the lurkers from the inactives/bored.
If we say we'll lynch the inactives, the inactives won't respond.
IF we say we'll lynch the inactives, the bored won't really respond.
Only the mafia will respond if we say lynch the inactives. Which is why you never want to end up LYNCHING an inactive, just pressuring all of them to post.
Furthormore, he just repeated information without actually adding anything to it. Finally he goes for the "easy" kill.
This is typical mafia to me.
I now offer Nemesis as a viable option for a real lynch. I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. There have been games where inactivity lost town the game. And I'm not talking about people being active and then becoming inactive. I'm talking about inactives staying inactive. Town doesn't want to waste lynches on them past day one and then you get like 3-4 inactives just sitting around at the end of the game making it almost impossible to weed out the last 2-3 mafia that are hiding within their ranks. Also, you're talking about semantics. Whether we mean inactive or lurker, inactive means they ain't posting and so from the point of view of the town, it's the same thing, a bad thing. Its like our policy to lynch millers. Doesn't matter if they are real mafia or not, if someone comes up as red, its better to lynch them than not to. Saying we're going to lynch inactive might not do anything but voting and pressuring them will get them to post so your point on that is wrong too. If they are truly "inactive", as in they are away from the comp, they won't come defend themselves and we can get a sense of whether they are "inactive" or a "lurker" as you put it. I'm actually weary of people who go "omg he wants to lynch inactive, he's mafia!" Everyone knows what people mean when they say lets lynch inactive day one, it's just a way to generate discussion. Most games start with people saying lynch inactive. And most of the time they're not mafia. Why did you jump to quickly to say he's mafia? We got a whole day left and not everyone has said anything yet. Did you just say this? :p Show nested quote +I disagree with this post. While lynching inactives is suboptimal as a strategy when compared to lynching mafia, I wouldn't say it's a bad strat. Again, we want to pressure people to POST, not lynch the inactives. There is a HUGE difference between those two. We want to pressure the inactives and lynch the lurkers, not lynch the inactives themselves. Remember, mafia aren't inactive, they're lurking. Inactives are those who are bored, who don't care about the game, who don't have time. Lurkers are the ones who are watching yet don't contribute. Differentiating between those will make or break it for the town. We can't just lynch all the inactives and hope for the best. As of right now, I want Shockkey to post, but am giving him time. Meanwhile there is someone who might be scum and slipped up. There's no point not pressuring the person at the very least.
You need to keep this up, you are impressing me =)
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My god, you guys are still going on about dealing with inactives? You went from talking about what blues should do which is self explanatory
moved on into talking about how to deal with inactives which again, is self explanatory. Do you guys seriously just make posts for the sake of posting? You guys all should know better than this by now.
The only saving grace is that people are still posting for the sake of fitting in.
Pandain, talked about defining what a lurker and an inactive is and which we have to aim for, awesome. However this was not included with much analysis. Now its only day 1 so i'm giving him a bit of breathing room here, but if someone tells people how a game should be played, all eyes should be flickering back there periodically to make sure he's coming through.
Jackal. FoS a player based on a previous game and uses that as analysis to justify FoS them. After the crapshoot of the last game any player with a brain would have learned from it. Aside from that most posts have been fluff posts
To my eyes these are the most notable people right now playing the "fit in game" you all seem to be discussing. Which I will now also mention is a really dumb way to play day 1. Day 1 you have no idea if people are busy at work, busy with school, etc...
There is no trend in which to analyze to base their behaviour off of. Metaing the player gets you know where as you need multiple days worth of information typically to fully match them to one of their previous play styles. Anyone who continues the discussion of how to deal with inactives at this point in the game should be massive FoS. It is a moot point now and just gives the mafia an easy discussion to blend in with. You need to apply pressure to people or have a general point in which everyone would be compelled to give their piece on, yet make it much harder for a red to blend in.
Inactivity/lurkers, generic blue roles discussions don't do jack to narrow down reds.
IF you want to talk about blues you go into things like
zodiac lists
dt check lists
or the like day 1. Those generate discussion, and usually get good reactions.
However, these are my recommendations and general observations. You guys have to learn these things at some point, might as well be now.
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On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 12:17 GGQ wrote:On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity... And we don't want to be voting those who we modkill anyway, no? Show nested quote +On January 21 2011 17:08 Barundar wrote:
Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place.
Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now? I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance. Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all.
Thats your problem. Stop expecting vets to perform and win games and learn to do it yourself. I was asked to join this game, and I am playing, but compared to pyp I am not solo winning this game. I am here purely to help town win, but I am not doing all the heavy lifting. I told you already where the days errors were, and how to redirect them, its now up to you guys to listen or not listen. Its your call.
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On January 22 2011 06:37 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2011 06:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 22 2011 02:08 Pandain wrote:On January 21 2011 12:17 GGQ wrote:On January 21 2011 11:24 Pandain wrote:
Because mafia will never go inactive.
As for pressuring them....
For example, we can threaten to lynch people. When for 2 days in a row you only say "I'm busy", that's unnacceptable, and we lynch them. As of now though there is no one I would consider truly "inactive inactive." There really the only way to differentiate is by lynching them, such as soulfire and george clooney, who wouldn't talk even if pressured.
But no one is doing that now. So for now, lynching "inactives" is not what we should be doing. You literally just finished XXV where two mafia were modkilled for inactivity... And we don't want to be voting those who we modkill anyway, no? On January 21 2011 17:08 Barundar wrote:
Meh now jumping to another target Pandain? Pressure doesn’t work if it isn’t real, and you basically just switched because Nemesis makes one post arguing against you. I like that you are being offensive, but it has to serve it's purpose, and right now you are all over the place.
Hesmyrr, do you still think your vote on BC is justified, and who else would you vote for now? I got enough out of him, the point is to pressure as many people as possible in a limited amount of time. Speaking of which, why is chaoser still voting me since I've obviously spoken. And BC, I'm expecting alot out of you this game. You're certainly the most experienced one here, yet as of now have hardly said anything of real substance. Finally, I've decided that I don't think Shockkey is scum. He's playing his norm, in fact, even has contributed more with a semi analysis of Nemesis. I think Hesmyrr is a far better person to vote considering he has barely talked at all. Thats your problem. Stop expecting vets to perform and win games and learn to do it yourself. I was asked to join this game, and I am playing, but compared to pyp I am not solo winning this game. I am here purely to help town win, but I am not doing all the heavy lifting. I told you already where the days errors were, and how to redirect them, its now up to you guys to listen or not listen. Its your call. Alright, didn't know you were purposely going to not be as active as you were in pyp3. Since I really don't know who to lynch, I'm just going to stick with the Shockkey lynch. Because while I don't think he's mafia, I'm unsure about everyone. And at the very least, there is merit in lynching lurkers, as he has himself addmitted to be one. I think he's been to "I'm town screw off", but as for right now no one else comes to mind. ##Unvote BC
##Vote Shockkey
dude the level of commitment and level of play required to win pyp3 is retarded. I have never had to play that hard as town period. In a game where you are playing vs mafia and sk, you should not also be worried about town offing you when your role is clearly town aligned.
As such I just refuse to do that every game, I think for obvious reasons. Games are not fun if your the only one working for the in. However, I will do my best to steer bad conversations back on track, and once day 2 hits spend time analyzing people. By then patterns will have formed and at least one red will have stuck his head out too far.
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On January 26 2011 12:19 chaoser wrote:
Hahaha, so town setup was 2 vigi? Totally didn't expect that. Town wins it, obviously there's no way mafia can win anymore =P. GG. Went for the quick play and lost lol.
Except my job wasn't so much to analyze as it was to policy shoot people. Really obvious mafia or really retarded townies were going to get shot. Had I not been modkilled I was going to going to coin flip shoot pandain/someone else. Both were town, but both were posting terribly day 1 lol.
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On January 26 2011 12:31 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 12:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On January 26 2011 12:19 chaoser wrote:
Hahaha, so town setup was 2 vigi? Totally didn't expect that. Town wins it, obviously there's no way mafia can win anymore =P. GG. Went for the quick play and lost lol. Except my job wasn't so much to analyze as it was to policy shoot people. Really obvious mafia or really retarded townies were going to get shot. Had I not been modkilled I was going to going to coin flip shoot pandain/someone else. Both were town, but both were posting terribly day 1 lol. You scared me. I wasn't disappointed when you were mod killed. I really had no idea where you were playing from
Just for the next little while assume if I'm in a game that I will sit back and step out if people are playing horrifically (which is what I was doing here). You guys were doing a couple of realllly big no no discussions during day 1.
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On January 26 2011 12:37 Barundar wrote:
Hah BC's comments on forced discussion felt bullseye on my play in the start. Funny how Pandain and Gmarshal took offense, when it was exactly the trick I was pulling off.
Really wish you had stayed BC, think it's easier to fail as mafia if you feel you are outwitting the town.
Just go read some games the mafia destroyed town in (in terms of equal level of play) and just emulate that if you can. It will destroy bad towns while making yourself feel good.
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On January 26 2011 12:33 GMarshal wrote:
BC what do you define as "realllly big no no discussions"?
talking about blues but not specifying medic lists/dt/vig lists, etc... If you talk generalities anyone can weigh in and appear active without contributing productively.
For instance saying "dts should check scummy players" vs "dts should check bc, ver and incog"
One prompts people to discuss why those players are being checked, the other lets people go "yeah, check scummy people."
its the difference between specifics and semantics.
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EPT
