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[G] Beginners Guide to Understanding "Just Macro"

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
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Eeryck
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States184 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-12 16:06:57
January 07 2011 19:20 GMT
#1
Edit: While I think that I did put a lot of good information in this post and it is useful, I have since reconsidered exactly how this is of value. When it comes down to it you do need to learn to value your errors more harshly in SC2. However attempting to give food benchmarks at any given time interval will only help slightly in valuing your errors but you still need to know how to learn what to look for.

I still am considering developing a resource for the very beginner on how to improve their mechanics, however I am starting to think that the approach should be slightly different.

The idea I have in my head is more of a gathering of different macro exercises with general benchmarks to help illustrate each of the "basic" rules of macro that are commonly identified.


Edit 2: If you want to see my arguments against this type of guide you can read my comments in this post:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191745

Arisen has captured more different build benchmarks here, you can see my arguements against getting stuck in a benchmark mind frame in that post.



Introduction


This guide is intended to gather information to clarify the what "just macro and you can get to diamond" to help a new player better understand the costs of "small" mistakes. The intent is to utilize speed builds with timing benchmarks to help beginning players understand what they could have.

Some of the builds listed here will be considered all-in at higher level of play but are very viable and able to be transitioned out of at lower levels quite easily. The intent is to have solid econ builds that will help the beginner progress with a "measurable window" for self analysis.

Of course unit mix could be different, these are strategy issues and I hope to avoid them in the interest of focusing on macro and valuing errors. The idea is to have a generally balanced army that would be viable in most match-ups.

If I can gather enough information here and if there is enough general interest I will spend the time to add this to the Liquipedia page and cross link it to existing articles as appropriate.

My use of the word “optimal” is what can be done by a player, not a machine. Also, since this is a beginner guide and focused on simple econ I would like to avoid cutting workers or production to optimize.

Ultimately, for the build orders and food counts listed I would like to gather a replay for each one and then I will write down the specific build order from the replay so there is strong correlation of information.

Being a beginner myself I am looking to the TL community to help fill both information in this guide and to correct errors and help fill in omissions

Initial Goals – Bronze/Silver


We have to start somewhere with macro, so I have chosen 1-base. This will help people to sort out the fundamentals like using hotkeys and constantly building workers and units and to learn to start properly valuing their mistakes.

For the beginners please understand doing just this well is not good macro. It is just the start of it. Good macro will continue on to multiple bases, this will give you some sense of how much units you can have to defend those bases making the concept of expansion more comfortable.

The build orders listed here are not to be confused with game strategy. They are chosen because they are somewhat common on the ladder and so therefore your practice will have some benefit in game. The most important point of this exercise, is to give you feedback on how efficient your macro is. The viability of them in game is up to you to determine. Even Zerg needs to be able to measure what they are doing, be it off of one base or two or three. So we will try and balance worker and unit production at 7-minutes for all three races.

1-base 7-minute unit counts for the following builds:

Terran
+ Show Spoiler +

3-rax 2tech, 1reactor
55/59 food consisting of
25SCVs, 10 marauders, 10 marines

Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks
13 Refinery > 3 in gas at completion
15 Orbital Command
15 Marine
16 Supply Depot
17 Barracks [2] > Reactor immediately after Barracks Completion > Produce only Marines
17 Tech lab on Barracks [1] > Produce only Marauders
19 Barracks [3] > Tech lab immediately after Barracks Completion > Produce only Marauders
24 Supply Depot

At this point continue producing w/o queuing units, the Supply Depots will need to be built after you start production of each round of units, you should barely have enough money to build them.
2 marauder, 2 marines and 2SCV = 8 food = 1 Supply Depot

At 6:15 you should have 100 minerals and 100gas to start stimpack

At 6:45 you should have 50 minerals and 50 gas to start concusive


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

3-rax 52 food

You can see small mistakes cost units here:

1st supply depot worker arrives about 15 minerals early
Forgot to put guys on gas as refinery finishes
2nd and 3rd rax about 15-20 minerals late
Result 6 marauder, 9 marines and 26 SCVs on the ground at 7 minutes with a full cycle in production


1-1-1, reactor barracks, tech lab factory
46/51 food consisting of
26SCVs, 10marines, 2siege tanks, 2medivacs

Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

10 Supply Depot
12 Barracks > no add-on till extra gas with tanks and medivacs in production
13 Refinery > 3 in gas at completion
15 Orbital Command
15 Marine
16 Supply Depot
20 Factory > Tech lab at completion > produce only siege tanks
21 Supply Depot
25 Starport > no add on produce only medivacs

Start siege tech after first round of siege tank and medivac is started
Produce only marines from first barracks


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

1-1-1 46 food

I am sure this can be optimized quite a bit more some mistakes:
Forgot to put guys in first gas immediately
Tech lab on Factory was late
Siege Tech researched before starting first tank
These probably cost me 1 tank and 1 medivac on the ground with production started on another pair.
Result 26SCVs, 9 marines, 1 tank, 1 medivac on the ground at 7 min with another round in production.




Protoss
+ Show Spoiler +

4-gate
xx/xx food consisting of
? Probes, ? Zealot, ?Stalker, ?Sentry

Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


3-gate, robo
xx/xx food consisting of
? Probes, ? Zealot, ?Stalker, ?Sentry, ?Observer/?Immortal

Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds



Zerg
+ Show Spoiler +


The first build for zerg is currently the most "standard" build for zerg given the macro mechanic of larvae inject and the reactionary nature of the race. In order to give a benchmark the build will drone till the last minute possible then produce enough units by 7-minutes to hold the pushes listed so far in this guide.
14hatch, 14 pool
xx/xx food consisting of
? Drones, 2queens, ?sling, ?bling

Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


The community at large has the consensus that one-base zerg is a very large mistake. I agree with them. However if you are new to the game and need a macro benchmark for 1-basing, I will do my best to give it to you here. Be warned that as you progress past Bronze and Silver you will most likely have to spend a significant amount of time re-learning your race.
sling / bling
xx/xx food consisting of
? Drones, 1 queen, ?sling, ?bling

Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


sling/roach (I am not sure if this is the best second 1-base build for zerg)
xx/xx food consisting of
? Drones, ?roach, ?sling
Build Order
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds



Valuing Common Macro Mistakes on 1-base


If you are practicing these builds, you will quickly see the level of efficiency of your play by stopping the game at 7-minutes and comparing your food count to the optimal. If you get only 35 food and the optimal is 55 food then you are 35/55*100=64% Efficient

So now watch your replay and make note of the following mistakes:
+ Show Spoiler +

Queuing a worker more than 80% completion of previous worker
Starting a worker 1-5 seconds late
Starting a worker 5 or more seconds late
Starting a production building 25-50 minerals late
Starting a production building 50-150 minerals late
Getting supply blocked for less than 5 seconds
Getting hard supply blocked (meaning you start your next supply when you are at food cap)
Having more than 8-10 extra supply for unit production
Missing larva inject/mule/chrono by 5-10 seconds
Missing larva inject/mule/chrono by a full cycle
Forgetting to put workers in gas
Missing unit production by 1-5 seconds
Missing unit production by 5 or more seconds


You should start to notice some general things about mistakes. Each short duration mistake should cost you 2-3 food @ 7-minutes. Each longer duration mistake will cost you 5-8 (or more) food or more at 7-minutes.

Tips for better Macro Efficency – Bronze/Silver


There are a million out there and it is all preference, but if you don’t know where you want to start at least do these things or your own variation of them:

+ Show Spoiler +

Rally your hatchery/cc/nexus to center minerals

Set your hatchery/cc/nexus to Control group 4
-Only make workers by pressing 4s/4sd/4e depending on your race

Set your Barracks/Warpgates to Control Group 5
-Only make units by pressing 5aadd/5zzss for terran and protoss
-Only make units by pressing 4szzzzzz for zerg

Zerg set your Queen to Control Group 5
-Only use your macro mechanic by pressing 4e [click]/4c [click]/5v [click]

Add all of your units to Control Group 1 after each production cycle

Shift click workers back to minerals after you start each production building

Attempt to send a worker slightly early to build a building so that he arrives just as you have the minerals to start that building

Practice cycling through your hotkeys to watch production 114511451145 over and over again, do it slowly at first, there is no need to go fast yet, you will be macroing while watching your army this way. When you need to build a unit you would just insert that hotkey in the cycle. 114s51145aa11451145114s…

When adding a barracks or gateway, click on it right after you shift click the worker and press shift + 5 to add it to that control group. Then press 5 and right click the top of your ramp to rally units there.

When you need to build supply press 44, click a worker press bd [click] [shift+click minerals]/be [click] [shift+click minerals]


Will this win me games in Bronze/Silver


I can only give the experience of myself and my good friend. We were both Terran and we both did the 3-rax build at about 80% efficiency. For each of us we won more than 3 out of 4 games against bonze opponents. We did rally our barracks to our attacking force to seal the win.

Typically the 1 in 4 losses was to a cheese we did not know how to defend or that threw us off our game too much.

More importantly than winning here with a “all-in” it gave each of us more confidence to be able to expand.

Against silver players with 80% efficiency this build was slightly better than 50/50. The complete lack of tech was starting to show as a weakness against some silver players.

Expanding your understanding of Macro by Expanding – Silver/Gold


Now that you have enough units that you can hold an early push it is time to practice the macro of expanding. Building on the 1-base play the goal here is to start getting a expansion between 7-8 minutes and may require skipping a unit production cycle to have enough minerals if you are really efficient at your 1-base macro. If you are still having slip ups, most likely at this point you will have the spare 300/400 minerals to expand at 7-8 minutes anyway.

The build orders listed here are more of a framework or plan of when to add buildings as the minerals and gas will allow as long as you have a full production cycle of units in progress.

These speed build numbers will have virtually no correlation to ingame numbers because there will be any number of attacks, harasses, etc. that will change the food counts. The idea is to get a feel for what you can optimally have off 2-bases to check your own efficency.

If a speed build maxes supply before 13 minutes on a speed build I will edit and note the time that max supply happens.

2-base 13-minute unit counts for the following builds:

Terran
+ Show Spoiler +

3-rax 2tech, 1reactor, expanding to 4-1-2
xx/xx food consisting of
?SCVs, ? marauders, ? marines, siege tanks, ?medivacs
1/1 ground unit upgrades

Build Order Additions
+ Show Spoiler +

Start CC @ 400 minerals as your attack is moving out
Get second gas @ 70 minerals when you have constant unit production
Add factory @150 gas
Add Eng Bay
Add Starport at factory completion
Add second Starport


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


1-1-1, reactor barracks, tech lab factory, expanding to 4-1-2
xx/xx food consisting of
25SCVs, ?marines, ?marauders, ?siege tanks, ?medivacs

Build Order Additions
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Protoss
+ Show Spoiler +

4-gate, expanding to 4-gate, robo, stargate
xx/xx food consisting of
? Probes, ? Zealot, ?Stalker, ?Sentry, ?Observer, ?Immortal

Build Order Additions
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


3-gate, robo expanding to 4-gate, robo, stargate
xx/xx food consisting of
? Probes, ? Zealot, ?Stalker, ?Sentry, ?Observer, ?Immortal

Build Order Additions
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Zerg
+ Show Spoiler +

sling / bling expanding to add muta
xx/xx food consisting of
? Drones, ?sling, ?bling, ?muta

Build Order Additions
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


roach/ling expanding to roach/ling/hydra (I am not sure if this is the best second 1-base build for zerg)
xx/xx food consisting of
? Drones, ?lings ?roach, ?hydra

Build Order Additions
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds


Replay
+ Show Spoiler +

Forthcoming – I will use my silver level macro to add each reply and build order if I don’t get help, perhaps then others will chime in and contribute more optimized builds



Tips for better Macro Efficency – Silver/Gold


After your expansion it is easiest to judge your macro by your minerals and gas. Everything here is more or less optimized (or someday should be) for constant production on 2-base but slip ups happen and in game and in practice here is what you should do:

+ Show Spoiler +

Extra minerals when you have a full unit production cycle
Build an extra barracks or two or three for more marines
Build an extra gateway or two or three for more zealots
Build an extra hatchery and queen in base for more slings
Note at the end of the build time what the mistakes cost you in food, this lets you keep spending your money but also see what it cost your in food compared to optimum

Extra gas when you have a full unit production cycle
Get an upgrade or two or three, most of these builds should be gas bound, so go back an look at what big mistake happened to allow the extra gas.


Will this win me games in Silver/Gold


Again I can only speak for me and my buddy, but doing the 1-base play at 90% efficiency and the two base play at 70-80% efficiency had me winning against silver players 3 out of 4 games.

Against gold players, since I have only started poking at the ramp instead of the full 7-minute attack it has been winning quite a bit. Since we are just starting to face them, I don’t want to give a win rate till I have some more information. It is still feeling very strong though. The 2-base push feels massively strong when you don’t lose the initial 7-minute army.

Third base and Beyond – Gold/Platinum

The primary advice I have here is to start taking your third as you move out with the attack at 13-minutes or so. This will replace the minerals lost by your original base starting to mine out and continue to keep you at your solid two base production

Expanding roughly every 7-minutes thereafter will allow you to continue to have full production off of two bases

What is next?

Hopefully you now have a sense of what it is possible to produce off of multiple bases

Hopefully now you see more value in what may have appeared to be small mistakes and have more motivation to fix them.

Hopefully now you understand what “smooth” macro is and have been enjoying winning more than losing and a promotion or two

Now it is time to take what you learned here and apply it to all the build orders and strategies are out there and play them more optimally to continue to progress up the ladder.

You should see that expanding is good and safe and want to start doing it earlier than listed here, experiment, watch replays have fun with it and have the confidence that you will have the most units possible when you expand no matter what timing you choose. If you die try expanding later vs that strat next time or add more static defense.

You have the framework for controlling the game and optimizing a build now. Now you can actually spend your time learning some strategy and becoming a more efficient macro player.
?
Exstasy
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom393 Posts
January 07 2011 19:50 GMT
#2
wow, thank you for this. It is always great to see help for low level players =]
thurst0n
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States611 Posts
January 07 2011 20:43 GMT
#3
If you're in silver or whatnot you obviously dont' have the most optimized build so I don't understand what you have posted? Are these the most opitmized possible builds or are you asking people to fill in the blanks?
P.S. I'm nub. If you'd like you can follow me @xthurst but its not worth it ill be honest
eth3n
Profile Joined August 2010
718 Posts
January 07 2011 21:00 GMT
#4
I have a feeling you don't play zerg
Idra Potter: I don't use avada kedavra because i have self-respect.
Eeryck
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States184 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 21:50:44
January 07 2011 21:34 GMT
#5
On January 08 2011 05:43 thurst0n wrote:
If you're in silver or whatnot you obviously dont' have the most optimized build so I don't understand what you have posted? Are these the most optimized possible builds or are you asking people to fill in the blanks?


I will post initial builds orders and replays. I will also post the errors I know that I made in those builds. If someone can do it much better after that then great. I would love to have them give that replay and I will take out the build order and update the main post.

I tried to pick 2 builds per race to set up benchmarks for that would be moderately viable for use on the ladder if you were mostly efficient with your macro. I may not have done the best job, but there is somewhat a consensus that in the lower leagues, you can build anything you want as long as you do it well then go win pretty easily.

The goal is not to give a winning strat only to give a reasonable build that you can practice and measure against an optimized number to have feedback on optimized macro. However, if you did want to ladder with it, I wanted to pick something reasonable.

The problem I am trying to solve is that I did not understand the value of errors in the early game and by the sheer number of many other low level players here posting, they do not either.

--------

I can 14hatch 15pool against the Hard AI and drone till just before they leave their base for the fist attack, defend push and win off of that start. I know this is nothing to brag about, but at least I can put up something that will be reasonable to be criticized.

For the macro measure here on 1-base, I was considering doing something like http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/14_Pool_Baneling
and
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/1_Base_Roach

I realize that my zerg macro portions will most likely need the most feedback to be good.

---------

There is a enormous gap in understanding how to get better at macro, that in my opinion is not simply explained by the following that is constantly regurgitated by the community and popular casters:

1. Never get supply blocked
2. Always make workers
3. Constantly produce out of your facilities
3. Keep your money low

To a beginner "Never" a lot of times means well it was only 1-hard block my macro really isn't that bad and they justify this in their head because there is no benchmark for them to know how many units they could have had. So instead to keep money low they Build an extra production building they can't use, an Upgrade building they can't use, a second gas they can't use and say there, my money is low, my macro is good. Why am I still losing.

To a beginner "Always" means that if I am 3-5 seconds late that is ok because I am still always making them. Then they are keeping their money low and not getting supply blocked but every thing is late. So again they have less food than they should in a certain window.

To a beginner "Constantly" means if I forget for 3-5 seconds or miss a cycle when attacking but it does not cost me that much. Why can't I win. Because a missed cycle on 1-base cost them 8-food at 7-minutes.

All of these feed into themselves that errors compound so much and if you don't have somewhere to start with a benchmark you are going to continue to come here and make threads about "How do I beat xyz craizyness in Bronze" and you will continue to see 3 pages of just macro better and you will get to diamond.

I am making my best effort to put a resource out there to minimize this cycle.

If my replays are garbage and no one else sees the value of making better ones to help me out then the worst thing that happens is I have wasted my time and this thread is closed or fades to oblivion. Hopefully, my effort is seen as substantial enough that I don't get warned or temp banned.
?
Exstasy
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom393 Posts
January 07 2011 21:38 GMT
#6
Personally I don't think you should include a 1 base Zerg build. It is too weak. especially considering lower level players do not expand at decent times, or frequently enough.

It would be better if you just added a 14 gas 14 pool into 21 Hatch.
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
January 07 2011 21:44 GMT
#7
If you're going to worry about Zerg optimzation, I'd take a slightly different approach, and do a build designed to fast expand and then hold off a 3 rax or 4 gate. If you're pushing at 7 minutes for T/P a Zerg build that has the necessary units to hold that push would be a good place to start. From personal experience, this is a great place to learn as Zerg.

On the subject of the 3 rax, you may want to try one of the build optimizers that's floating around, I think there's one out there for Terran. 10 marines 10 marauders with stim and conc is a pretty good benchmark, so stick with that. I'll post some more feedback soon
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
Eeryck
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States184 Posts
January 07 2011 22:02 GMT
#8
@lobotomist and Exstasy - I agree and understand. Let me ask this before I start to make a change.

The key portion of zerg macro is larvae inject right? So by giving a 1-base build it is easier to see how much a larvae inject cost you each time you miss one at a given time right?

The cost of macro errors in terms of units was my first intent, with "viability" being second. The thing I don't know is can you spend all your money in the first 7-minutes as zerg off of only one hatch. If you can, then I would like to keep it simple first. If you can't then I will happily change to a second hatch build.

Simply put, why try and learn to macro off of two bases if you can't do it on one.
?
hammerwing
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1 Post
January 07 2011 22:21 GMT
#9
I just wanted to say awesome post. I absolutely love the idea of having solid benchmarks to see how well your doing at the fundamentals. Ideally every build order post would come with a time/food benchmark of how to know if you're doing it well.
There is no SPOOOOOOOOOOON
bramapanzer
Profile Joined December 2010
83 Posts
January 07 2011 22:28 GMT
#10
Simply put, why try and learn to macro off of two bases if you can't do it on one.


Because one basing zerg against anything other than zerg will almost always equal a loss. It also instills bad habits in the newb zerg, its better that they get rolled repeatedly on a <20 hatch then learn to turtle on one and play like terran or toss.
adius
Profile Joined May 2007
United States249 Posts
January 07 2011 23:29 GMT
#11
Unfortunately, no one can be..."taught" how to play zerg. The heuristics for how to not die to different kinds of 1base attacks are more complicated and take experience to get the hang of.

The "builds" are 14 hatch 14 pool against Terran, 14 pool expand as soon as opponent allows (but before 20 food) against protoss, and 14pool against zerg. After that though, it gets weird. Terran and Protoss can just mass up a big attack to kill an opponent if their macro is superior, Zerg often can't, and even if they can, it's a bad habit to develop to try the "just go kill him" thing as zerg until you're 100% sure you've got him.

Honestly, it's my opinion that no matter how you go about it, you're not doing yourself any favors by playing zerg with a goal of getting to diamond, because unless you have a lot of natural ability, it's going to take a while and a lot of losses to learn to play zerg the "right" way. It is NOT easy to get to diamond as zerg with standard play if you don't have a natural knack for it, and didn't play BW or have a lot of experience with WC3 or whatever.
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2573 Posts
January 07 2011 23:37 GMT
#12
Nice contribution to the community! Nice work and thanks!
ProtossGirl
Profile Joined December 2010
England123 Posts
January 07 2011 23:38 GMT
#13
From personal experience, I "coached" a brand new player to the game for 3-4 hours online.

He 14 hatches all his games with a 65% win ratio in bronze atm and his confidence is sky high, even when he loses its because its something he's never seen before.

so, rather than teach "safe" teach "proper" builds, its not that one is intrinsically harder than the other, once your low level guy knows to use an overlord for vision at his expo to spot pylons etc all goes well.
Phwar Gate
polyrhythmic
Profile Joined August 2010
20 Posts
January 07 2011 23:49 GMT
#14
this is an excellent guide and the way brand new players should be helped and coached. the ubiquitous "just 3 rax your way to diamond" gives the ladder its glut of players stuck in high plat or low diamond who plateau and then don't have the skillset to continue to improve. they don't understand the basic mechanics of the game.

bravo.
adius
Profile Joined May 2007
United States249 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-07 23:53:15
January 07 2011 23:50 GMT
#15
On January 08 2011 08:38 ProtossGirl wrote:
From personal experience, I "coached" a brand new player to the game for 3-4 hours online.

He 14 hatches all his games with a 65% win ratio in bronze atm and his confidence is sky high, even when he loses its because its something he's never seen before.

so, rather than teach "safe" teach "proper" builds, its not that one is intrinsically harder than the other, once your low level guy knows to use an overlord for vision at his expo to spot pylons etc all goes well.


14hatch isn't really "proper" against protoss though... any scrub can lay down a cannon behind your nat minerals and easily make your life hell =/

Oh, I forgot to say in my initial reply that in spite of the problem I mentioned, I really appreciate this thread in response to all the threads raging against the "just learn to macro" advice.
green1bdg
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland19 Posts
January 08 2011 00:37 GMT
#16
Just a thought I would like to put out there about the general zerg basics: often times it pays off to build drones instead of attacking units when your opponent is not yet ready to make an attack. Postponing an army production results in better economy when it comes to later stages of the game. Obviously though you need to make sure you won't die from an incoming attack in the first place.
Pumped flow through veins is getting into brain. Still precious remains as painful mark.
Eeryck
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States184 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-08 02:54:24
January 08 2011 02:53 GMT
#17
@hammerwing - The thing about benchmarks past a certain level is they are limiting. After Platinum you need to start learning to scout and adapt because macro will be getting better. Also you need to learn to use your units constantly to try and give an advantage, it is why you don't see high diamond or pros just sitting in their bases making stuff. They are constantly using strategy for calculated risks.

So a static benchmark for anyone past Gold or maybe Platinum is useless because you will never see that number of food army at that time. It is only helpful to us scrubs who don't really understand what good macro is.

@ all the zerg advice - I see this will be the toughest part of sorting this all out. I really do understand the 14hatch 14 pool idea and starting them off on the right foot. I will work out some replays and post them in the guide and then take more feedback from there. I wanted to stick with 1-base standards first before moving on to expo's but I see this is perhaps too far from how zerg should play on an econ build.

I will try and work through all the one base builds this weekend and start getting some replays, build orders and prelim food number up.
?
whatthefat
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States918 Posts
January 08 2011 05:25 GMT
#18
Of course, the tricky thing about applying this methodology to zerg is that there's no direct equivalent of the 2 basic macro rules for the other races:

1) Always build workers.
2) Constantly produce out of your production facilities.

Since one cannot achieve both as zerg, macro inherently relies more on observing and responding to the opponent's play.

Nonetheless, this is a very nice idea, and well executed for terran and protoss.
SlayerS_BoxeR: "I always feel sorry towards Greg (Grack?) T_T"
charlie420247
Profile Joined November 2009
United States692 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-08 05:31:38
January 08 2011 05:29 GMT
#19
On January 08 2011 06:00 eth3n wrote:
I have a feeling you don't play zerg


hahahha very funny cuz i felt the same way reading the OP. any one base zerg build is NOT a macro build!!!

i would add 14 pool 16 hatch, a 14 pool 15 gas 21 hatch and a hatch first build.
there are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who dont.
Kogut
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States147 Posts
January 08 2011 05:59 GMT
#20
You seem to have put a lot of effort into your research, but if you actually had a complete understanding of these topics, I don't know how you would be in the lower leagues. The best advice is what you have said you intend to do: play more games. You can only learn so much through reading. You may have a perfect strategy, but if your mechanics are not solid, you cannot execute it. I just got back to the game after taking a 2-month break, and I'm playing several hundred points below the level of my account, even though I've continued to watch GSL and hang around TL. Go practice.
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