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On December 07 2010 11:35 nbtnbt5 wrote:
/in
Pretty noob at mafia, although I'll try my best =)
You finally came over to the dark side? >:D
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On December 10 2010 08:20 Insanious wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course  I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? I'm newer at this as well, but have been reading a few mafia games, but i think some of the things people want in a pro-town environment are: - Longer, well thought out posts. This way ideas don't get lost. If you post a million tiny posts people can get bored, or will skip over having to read like 5 pages when everything could have just been put into a single longer post and people will have less to read. This way the town can see people who are posting small posts that try to bury information. - Long, well thought out accusations of scum. If you have posts that have like 8 quotes in them, people can better see a pattern in someones behavior. This can also help stop bandwagoning onto an innocent, as with a long post someone has a lot of information to refute, and you can also then point out scum who are using selective posts. This way it is easier to spot people who are trying to mislead the town. - Less peer-pressure, in a more pro-town environment there is less calling out of people, this can result in less blues being forced to reveal, which not only makes the town more vulnerable but also forces a chancey (in this case) to protect the blue for fear that they die. As well, this can reduce the amount of greens that need to reveal, that make them vulnerable due to them no longer being able to be lynch bait. I think those are more or less the major points of a more pro-town environment rather than an anti-town environment, if I missed anything just add to the list.
Agree with the first two, but I think that pressure can be a good thing for town in certain situations. If people are scummy, they need to be called out. This includes scumslips, lurking, suspicious voting etc.
Obviously we don't want to have shouting matches (Like the Pandain - Dr. H one from Insane) but this can be avoided. If someone has a case against you, defend yourself rather than attacking them.
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Role description for raichu says he turns up as aligned with TR when checked, but description for alakazam says he sees roles rather than just the alignment. Just to verify:
Does Raichu turn up as Koffing or Team Rocket when investigated?
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One of the biggest problems I have with lurkers/inactives is that when it gets to lategame, town NEEDS people who contribute badly. As was said above, maf have no incentive to hit lurkers so unless we lynch them they end up in the lategame.
+ Show Spoiler +
There are some pros to medics/cops being inactive on purpose, as it lessens the chance for maf to target them. For cops however, it also means they are less likely to have medic protection. Its very hit and miss, but might be viable for NEWBIE cop/docs. Wouldn't mind if better players gave opinions on this.
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I don't think that gabe is mafia. Why? Because mafia want to be as non-confrontational as possible on day 1 when there are no clues/elections. Mafia loooove when 2 townies start fighting, as they can spread their votes around. They don't need to do any manipulation. For an example, look at the first Salem lynch between kenpachi and BrownBear. If the lynch is going between a townie and a mafia, then the mafia have to start dropping votes on the townie and that is bad for them.
There seems to be a case against zeks, gonna read over some of his posts now. Kenpachi has looked scummy in EVERY single game he plays. Seriously, he's impossible to read.
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On December 12 2010 02:30 Kenpachi wrote:
asdf. even when i post, i get pointed scum
Its kind of funny. You are like an automatic public miller no matter what your role is 
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Don't have any time, but I just popped in a see a huge last minute bandwagon from kenpachi to zeks. Doesn't seem to be any substantial reasoning behind it so I'm quite suspicious of it. Voting for kenpachi as a result.
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On December 13 2010 07:02 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 16:18 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 16:02 Eiii wrote:On December 10 2010 15:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On December 10 2010 15:22 Insanious wrote:
So now we have 4 people voting for Gabriel with little to no explanation... actually I think like only 1 person explained why they were voting for Gab and the other three didn't even say they were voting for him or why... bandwagon on an active, outspoken player? Me no likey... Most people gave a reason, Gabriel took an extremely hostile stance towards several players, gave shaky reasons for his actions and bandwagoned shamelessly and then became extremyl defensive and rage quit when people questioned him. Until someone comes along and acts scummier I'll be keeping my vote on who I feel is the best lynch. Honestly, gabe's play has been distracting and inconsistent at best and scummy at worse. I mean, look at this: On December 10 2010 09:40 Gabriel wrote:On December 10 2010 09:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Also @LSB: I don't think we should say "we need to lynch inactives". While it may pressure scum to come out from hiding, I have seen it hit town more often than not. I think we need to deal with who is out and talking and giving us things to analyze rather than just blindly shooting into a room with a shotgun. I rather start the blind shoot into this small room with a shotgun. We are not getting analysis going too far away day one. Picking the right guy at the right time is picking a dead weight at first. He goes from saying "We're not going to be able to analyze anyone day 1, let's just lynch an inactive and hope it removes some dead weight" to... On December 10 2010 11:20 Gabriel wrote:Interesting: my half good "im new" shot is now voting for me. Kenpachi care to explain A) your vote B) your deep posts? On December 10 2010 07:11 Kenpachi wrote:
oh shit.. i cant really imagine Professor Oak dead D: On December 10 2010 07:47 Kenpachi wrote:
Pikachu - Townie
Raichu - Miller
Chansey - Medic
Cloyster - Veteran
Alakazam - Detective
Electrode - Mad Hatter
Mew - Special Detective
Gengar - God Father
Koffing - Mafia Grunt
Weezing - Mafia Shrink
Mewtwo - 3rd Party Vigilante
notice how our only way of killing at night is Mad Hatter and 3rd party.. 3rd party is technically against us and will probably kill town over mafia due to immunity and their goal is to be last alive. On December 10 2010 07:50 Kenpachi wrote:
yea claiming is a no no. and i hate lynching inactives. doesnt work at all. On December 10 2010 08:01 Kenpachi wrote:
how many people can Mafia target per night? On December 10 2010 08:12 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 08:11 Eiii wrote:There always seem to be posts about how we all need to establish a 'pro-town environment', which is obvious of course I (and I'm sure lots of other newer players) have no clue what that *means* though, especially when we can't PM each other. (That might turn out to be more of a blessing than a curse though.) So... can someone enlighten me? basically, where we can point out scum easily without confusing them as town.. i think On December 10 2010 08:14 Kenpachi wrote:On December 10 2010 08:13 KtheZ wrote:
Do we have a limited amount of double lynches? I think its 2.
Trying really really hard to paint ken as scum. And he doesn't even have any decent basis for it! One quote is a throwaway reaction to the day 1 post, one quote is asking about rules of the game, and the rest are useless but harmless posts. Like I said before, if he had taken even a second to look at ken's play in salem he would have seen that ken spammed like crazy even though he was medic. He might be active but he's certainly not helpful, and I think he knows it.
Personally, I *do* think good analysis can be done day one. My vote's with gabe for now. On December 11 2010 23:58 Node wrote:As weird as Gabriel's play is -- I still highly doubt that he's mafia, there's no way scum would draw so much attention to themselves -- I agree completely with his analysis of zeks. I'm still curious about the "infun slip ups" line, which has yet to be clarified. Also, I think the "stop overreacting" and "don't go apeshit" lines were excellent catches, as they were put down after zeks deflected pressure. For those who don't know, a classic scumtell is defending oneself and acting guilty when there aren't people attacking you. Scum, after all, has something to be guilty about while townies do not. I'd also like to draw everybody's attention to Eiii, who has been posting in an incredibly scummy fashion. On December 11 2010 16:58 Eiii wrote:
...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O On December 11 2010 17:10 Eiii wrote:
holy shit
Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect! What, exactly, are these supposed to contribute? They do absolutely nothing as far as actually refuting gabriel's arguments, but instead continue to pile shit on him by calling his posts bad. It does zero for the actual discussion at hand. To me, it screams scum attempting to deflect a lynch. For now, I'm going to be putting my vote on zeks. If he turns up scum, I think we have been given excellent candidates for the lynch on day 2. On December 12 2010 11:19 Eiii wrote:Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :D
I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death, but what I really don't like is this:On December 12 2010 04:10 Kenpachi wrote:On December 12 2010 03:39 DCLXVI wrote:
Thank you insanious and tree.hugger, I hope to see more people post like that. I don't understand why people are letting Kenpachi off the hook for bad posting. So what if he has a history of being less than stellar for the town. We cannot allow him to spam and distract the town because even if he isn't mafia, this helps the mafia. He is playing in a way that benefits the mafia, so even if he isn't (though I think he is), he is dangerous for the town. I really don't like the defense used by darth and meepak of "oh, well this is just how he normally plays". Townies don't intentionally hurt the town by doing what kenpachi is doing.
I'll hopefully be back in a bit before the vote ends, but I feel safe in putting my vote on Kenpachi. Every vote on him is a vote to clean up the town. youre dumb. what if i happened to be DT or Medic? Zero response to DC's attacks, just semi-claims to be blue to avoid a lynch. Obviously he takes it back a post later, but I just can't get over how disruptive a move this is. You are so mafia it hurts my eyes sir. Last voter on Kenpachi too. To put it in a few words: 1 Eiii puts the pressure on Gabriel to justify a badwagon. Note that he states clearly that my reasoning for calling KENPACHI OUT is wrong based.2 Just as Node describes: when I post about lynching zeks and why he is the best behavior lynch he comes out with two rather personal attack posts (and he didnt even cared to read about zeks analysis). Another thing to note: dodging Nodes call out. Not even a word. Period. 3 Three posts later im the cleanest guy in the town. Throw me a bone here please. 4 Remember point 1? lol now Kenpachis analysis is good (after it came from tree.hugger). Now im asking anyone to re read the actual case from treehugger and get the name of all those quotes inside his post calling Kenpachi (hint: they are mine). Can you actually explain how you pass from "(Gabriel is) Trying really really hard to paint ken as scum. And he doesn't even have any decent basis for it!" to "I'm switching my vote to ken. He's already been analyzed to death" (by Gabriel and tree.hugger mostly)?And how you pass from: "...gabes posts are so blatantly bad I'm actually starting to have a hard time believing they could possibly be authored by scum. o_O" + "holy shit: Gabriel Mafia: The game where it doesn't matter that your arguments are logically consistent, or that they're accurate, or even that they make any sense at all! As long as you have a long post to make so it looks like you're trying really really hard, congrats! You're absolved of potentially being mafia. Next suspect!" to "Alright, so as much as I don't like his posts gabriel seems to pretty clearly be a townie at this point. Looks like actual discussion makes him put out decent content instead of just blindly lashing out, so hopefully that keeps up :DIm calling you out sir. Right here, right now. Oh....kay. Firstly, i agree that Eiii has been looking scummy. Not for the reasons that you posted though. Look, most of your argument refers to the fact that he has changed his position on your alignment. When someone is so blatantly scummy, it's hard to believe that they are actually mafia, because they would be afraid to post like that. I had the same switch of opinion, I thought you were mafia, but then you got so bad that I realized you are much more likely to be a bad townie. That being said, I have no idea what he was talking about when he said you put out some decent content....=D (Ok, well, perhaps he was refering to your analysis of Zeks, because a few people said they liked that, but it IS still strange) Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 05:43 Gabriel wrote:Previous data from players is useless. Half decent players are able to get away with different playstyles. Im sure TL veterans dont look previous games unless there is a contradictory post from the accused in the active game (refered to the old game). LOL WUT? Uh...No. On of the most useful things a veteran has, is history. This helped alot in Salem, and VER says that it's one of the most useful techniques in analysis. In any case, I think we have enough information after the lynch to start analyzing people. I suggest we analyse a few of the more suspicious people each day and work a lynch from that. I'll submit that i want to see these people analysed more fully: Zeks (I want to see more than Gab and Treehugger contribute on this) Reason: Summy posting, as has been pointed out by others. Eiii (I think I'll look into this, but I'm not the best analyser so...) Reason: No content, somewhat less obvious (and thus more suspicious) scummy posting. I want Deconduo more thuroghly analysed, but theres not really anything to analyse.
Reason: Also voted last minute for ken, without posting a reason that I saw. (Sorry if I missed it)I also want to know more about Kitman27, but he has also posted little. Three posts, one of which had content. Anyone else have a short list of people we should focus on?
I did give a reason for the vote on ken, it was because of a fast suspicious bandwagon onto zeks. 4-5 people came out of nowhere to throw votes on zeks to put him ahead of kenpachi to be lynched. To me it looked like mafia didn't want kenpachi lynched.
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I'm voting for Gabe, from what I can see he's the scummiest candidate we have after reading through the analysis of him. I should have voted for him day one, but hindsight is 20/20
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On December 17 2010 03:06 LSB wrote:Cliffnotes on Analysis My ThoughtsShockeyy: (By LSB) 1) Lurks all the time 2) Does not take a position 3) Responds only when pressured 4) Profile matches with previous scum play. D3_crescentia (By Kavdragon) 1) Critiques stuff without alternatives Yeah... because everyone offered alternatives to my plan. </sarcasm>2) Spam Yeah... because only scum spam.</sarcasm>3) States obvious points and mini analysis Insanious (By DCLXVI) 1) Has a few good posts FOS DCLXVI2) Lack of activity Yeah because you're a shining example of what it is like to be activeShow nested quote +On December 16 2010 16:39 Brocket wrote:
Satisfactory analyses, well done gentlemen.
DCLXVI even bought attention to himself about the two voters against him being eliminated via analysing insanious. So it's a sign of honesty but the fact is still suss. I'm still not trusting Gabe because of kenpachi+ jcarl.
d3 hasn't been very consistent, that much is true. Why is it that townies seem to crumble when they are accused, you've got nothing to hide, don't make things worse by blurting out names and getting unnecessarily offended by accusation.
WTF?????? Is this sarcasm? DCLXVI (By Insanious) Interesting, do you want to look at his previous play to confirm? I could give you Segunko PMs if you'd think they'd be useful 1) Contributed nothing to the thread, just did token posts to seem like he was participating 2) Continuously uses the "I don't read the thread much" card, even though he seems to know what's going on 3) Got FoS'd by two players who died in the last night period
I think the last point is pretty huge. When I've been mafia I always try to take out the people that suspect me the most or are most vocal about it.
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On December 17 2010 16:06 DCLXVI wrote:Not to just to jump in and FOS someone randomly, but what do people think of deconduo? After looking through his last few posts (edit he only posted 10 times in the thread :/) I see that he posts even worse than I did in the first few days. Im too lazy to quote all his posts but take a look yourself: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=deconduowhat his posts say according to me 1 /in 2 he agree with what insanious wrote for the most part 3 question 4 lurkers are bad 5 gabe is too confrontational to be mafia (contradicts post #2 with the pandain vs docH bit) 6 lol post 7 Got no time, suspicious of one bandwagon, so he will join the other 8 responds to kavdragon about post 7, restates post 7 9 Time to vote Gabe because he is scummy 10 jumps into the thread, underlines analytical post by insanious that FoS DCLXVI I don't know how he has managed to make it this far through the game without being called out. A few people I saw briefly had (kav, LSB i think) but this is ridiculous. I may have posted bad early in the game, but if this isn't flat out the scummiest person right now then lynch me instead. Shockeyy has been making himself out to be scum for a while, d3 may be mewtwo, I may suck at contributing, but this? If you can convince me that d3 is mewtwo and why we should kill mewtwo now I'll stay voting d3, but people need to look at deconduo. At least have him as one of the two targets for tomorrow if you all think that it is too late to lynch him now. I don't want to fracture the towns voting power by introducing another target, but I am sure deconduo is scumsorry for being so argumentative lately, I just like to argue too much I guess. More content does not mean arguing I see. and yeah math says we need double lynch tomorrow and a hit tonight, voting
Not to make excuses or anything, but I'm having a lot more fun in the Harry Potter game. Having no PMs is a bit crippling for me as I've found out in this game, as I do a load of work through them normally. I'll make an effort to contribute a bit more though.
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On December 18 2010 02:55 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2010 02:54 deconduo wrote:On December 17 2010 16:06 DCLXVI wrote:Not to just to jump in and FOS someone randomly, but what do people think of deconduo? After looking through his last few posts (edit he only posted 10 times in the thread :/) I see that he posts even worse than I did in the first few days. Im too lazy to quote all his posts but take a look yourself: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=deconduowhat his posts say according to me 1 /in 2 he agree with what insanious wrote for the most part 3 question 4 lurkers are bad 5 gabe is too confrontational to be mafia (contradicts post #2 with the pandain vs docH bit) 6 lol post 7 Got no time, suspicious of one bandwagon, so he will join the other 8 responds to kavdragon about post 7, restates post 7 9 Time to vote Gabe because he is scummy 10 jumps into the thread, underlines analytical post by insanious that FoS DCLXVI I don't know how he has managed to make it this far through the game without being called out. A few people I saw briefly had (kav, LSB i think) but this is ridiculous. I may have posted bad early in the game, but if this isn't flat out the scummiest person right now then lynch me instead. Shockeyy has been making himself out to be scum for a while, d3 may be mewtwo, I may suck at contributing, but this? If you can convince me that d3 is mewtwo and why we should kill mewtwo now I'll stay voting d3, but people need to look at deconduo. At least have him as one of the two targets for tomorrow if you all think that it is too late to lynch him now. I don't want to fracture the towns voting power by introducing another target, but I am sure deconduo is scumsorry for being so argumentative lately, I just like to argue too much I guess. More content does not mean arguing I see. and yeah math says we need double lynch tomorrow and a hit tonight, voting Not to make excuses or anything, but I'm having a lot more fun in the Harry Potter game. Having no PMs is a bit crippling for me as I've found out in this game, as I do a load of work through them normally. I'll make an effort to contribute a bit more though. Deconduo get an replacement or pay attention and switch your vote off of D3
Already did, chill.
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I don't know why node would make a claim like that if he was mafia, given that they are in a pretty amazing situation right now. Its WIFOM, but I'm curious as to why he would fake it as maf.
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I'm going with BrownBear for what I feel has been scummy play. Its already been explained that lynching d3 gives us much worse odds than anything else.
Giving a quick read through LSB list, my second vote goes on oceanic.
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EPT
