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![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/n9D6d.jpg)
Intro:
Shakuras Marshes is a joint-operation between rookie mapmaker EffectS and expert texturer Koagel.
The map is build around two types of play I really enjoy to watch and play: 2-Base play and Long-game macro based play which results in splitting the map. Because of this, all players have an easy natural expansion no matter what positions the players spawn in. Plus, the natural and main are easily defended due to only one; easily blockable; entrance to them.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/X9d1K.jpg)
Low-Quality pictures >
Overview:
+ Show Spoiler +
Features:
-Wall-in:
+ Show Spoiler +
-Harassable main:
+ Show Spoiler +
-Siegeable third:
+ Show Spoiler +
-Harassable third:
+ Show Spoiler +
Additional Images (high quality) by Koagel:
+ Show Spoiler +
Update 20 November 2010:
- Map Published.
- Map analysis following whenever dimfish gets back at me.
for information or bugs please contact me at TeamLiquid.net (EffectS)
or by mail at chopchopgrrpandah@yahoo.com
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The third seems impossible to take on this map, except for a T with siege tanks. The back of the main and naturals are ridiculously open to air harass.
What exactly stops a Terran from turtling up, easily denying the third everytime and just crush his opponent?
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I really like this map. It's really well done, especially for a rookie mapmaker. Actually, it's one of the few I actually feel l ike commenting on.
I would widen the ramp for the highground path between horizontal position bases. Maybe widen the path itself while you're at it.
I think the middle is a bit too tight. I recommend that you move the mineral lines to the edge of the middle area instead of the centre, and open up the cliffs in the middle.
Great job. I like the map a lot.
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Wow, the transition from the hex tiles to the sand texture doesn't work at all on low settings. Should have checked that. 
Btw, you can get rid of all these symbols you can't see ingame by pressing v in the editor.
Thought I'd also add some pictures with higher settings:
+ Show Spoiler +
In the beginning, I didn't like the tileset at all because I felt some of the textures would be impossible to use, but later I recognised that this was wrong. Blue, purple and turquoise fit together nicely if used correctly. 
Still don't know why they labeled the turquoise texture as "dark sand". I feel like it clearly is a grass texture and I used it as such.
EDIT:
I think the middle is a bit too tight. I recommend that you move the mineral lines to the edge of the middle area instead of the centre, and open up the cliffs in the middle.
You'll have to check if you can siege them from the mains if you do this.
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On November 20 2010 23:44 slivaz wrote:
The third seems impossible to take on this map, except for a T with siege tanks. The back of the main and naturals are ridiculously open to air harass.
What exactly stops a Terran from turtling up, easily denying the third everytime and just crush his opponent?
I'm trying to evolve the current terran a bit to BW FlaSh terran with this map and it's possible that I'm somewhat unconsciously biased towards T.
I remember a game between FlaSh & Jaedong in the finals on Grand Line SE. They spawned in opposite sides and Jaedong quickly had map dominance, FlaSh couldn't get out of his base, so he grabbed the second main/natural to the bottom of him and defended both his mains/naturals very well. Up to a point where Jaedong after 100 attacks and severel doomdrops which all failed, GG'd the game.
So you see, I had the spectator viewpoint in mind while creating this map. The defensive type player can easily take the two mains if the spawns are top vs down and force his opponent to GG.
On November 20 2010 23:53 neobowman wrote:
I really like this map. It's really well done, especially for a rookie mapmaker. Actually, it's one of the few I actually feel l ike commenting on.
I would widen the ramp for the highground path between horizontal position bases. Maybe widen the path itself while you're at it.
I think the middle is a bit too tight. I recommend that you move the mineral lines to the edge of the middle area instead of the centre, and open up the cliffs in the middle.
Great job. I like the map a lot.
I agree with the mid, for whatever reason I never really know how to handle middle sections of a map. I want the mid to have great strategic importance aswell as having an economic advatange and I never really know how to balance the map.
Thanks for replying Neo, really means a lot.
@Koagel: Thanks bud! I would've put on higher quality but I was a bit afraid of frying my graphics card  .
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On November 21 2010 00:13 EffectS wrote:@Koagel: Thanks bud! I would've put on higher quality but I was a bit afraid of frying my graphics card .
Many people play on low settings anyway, so I should maybe try to balance visuals on low with visuals on high settings. Let's see if this is possible.
We should maybe do this again if you want to, I'm much better with the visuals than I'm with the actual mapping...
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On November 21 2010 00:21 Koagel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2010 00:13 EffectS wrote:@Koagel: Thanks bud! I would've put on higher quality but I was a bit afraid of frying my graphics card . Many people play on low settings anyway, so I should maybe try to balance visuals on low with visuals on high settings. Let's see if this is possible. We should maybe do this again if you want to, I'm much better with the visuals than I'm with the actual mapping...
Sounds like a plan! :D
Gonna put this up for the mapmaking contest I think.
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On November 21 2010 00:29 EffectS wrote:
Sounds like a plan! :D
Gonna put this up for the mapmaking contest I think.
Yeah, I feel like it's a reasonable entry.
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On November 21 2010 00:13 EffectS wrote:
I'm trying to evolve the current terran a bit to BW FlaSh terran with this map and it's possible that I'm somewhat unconsciously biased towards T.
I remember a game between FlaSh & Jaedong in the finals on Grand Line SE. They spawned in opposite sides and Jaedong quickly had map dominance, FlaSh couldn't get out of his base, so he grabbed the second main/natural to the bottom of him and defended both his mains/naturals very well. Up to a point where Jaedong after 100 attacks and severel doomdrops which all failed, GG'd the game.
So you see, I had the spectator viewpoint in mind while creating this map. The defensive type player can easily take the two mains if the spawns are top vs down and force his opponent to GG.
How in the world does this make sense to you?
SC1 and SC2 are different games, the most obvious point here is of course the ability of SC1 zerg to actually take map control earlygame. In SC2 the zerg just can't do that before the creep spreads sufficiently, which is not until mid-late game.
Also, because of PFs, turrets and tanks, it is much easier for the terran to take the third than any other race.
I understand what you are trying to do, but I don't think that trying to influence the way people play terran is a viable excuse for what looks like straight-up imbalance.
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On November 21 2010 00:50 slivaz wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 21 2010 00:13 EffectS wrote:
I'm trying to evolve the current terran a bit to BW FlaSh terran with this map and it's possible that I'm somewhat unconsciously biased towards T.
I remember a game between FlaSh & Jaedong in the finals on Grand Line SE. They spawned in opposite sides and Jaedong quickly had map dominance, FlaSh couldn't get out of his base, so he grabbed the second main/natural to the bottom of him and defended both his mains/naturals very well. Up to a point where Jaedong after 100 attacks and severel doomdrops which all failed, GG'd the game.
So you see, I had the spectator viewpoint in mind while creating this map. The defensive type player can easily take the two mains if the spawns are top vs down and force his opponent to GG.
How in the world does this make sense to you? SC1 and SC2 are different games, the most obvious point here is of course the ability of SC1 zerg to actually take map control earlygame. In SC2 the zerg just can't do that before the creep spreads sufficiently, which is not until mid-late game. Also, because of PFs, turrets and tanks, it is much easier for the terran to take the third than any other race. I understand what you are trying to do, but I don't think that trying to influence the way people play terran is a viable excuse for what looks like straight-up imbalance.
Terran always has the advantage in taking expansions with slow pushing siege tanks.
Third is meant to be taken by players who have already gained map control.
I could go on about the map and how it's intended to be played, but we'll see how players actually play on it, instead of speculating about it.
Lastly I wanna say that SC2 as it is now, isen't THAT different from SC1 in it's begin stages.
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
I would like to see a picture with the map borders turned on.
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I agree with neobowman, this map is looking pretty nice, I kinda gotta agree on the mineral lines is to open for herassment, I play protoss and muta ling would destroy me on this map
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On November 21 2010 02:22 dezi wrote:
Why do both players start at the top area and not cross or at least one at bottom. I dislike LT with close spawns on the same side. This often leads to short games because it's hard to establish and hold a 3rd and this issue seems to be encouraged at this map. Additionally i would like to see a picture with the map borders turned on.
It's a small bug, it's a 4 player map and players can spawn at the 10; 2; 7; 5 o'clock positions.
On November 21 2010 02:22 dezi wrote:
I would like to see a picture with the map borders turned on.
Edited that for whatever reason , it's a 140x140 playable terrain map. Which means it's around 160x168 big. I might upload a picture for you later :D.
On November 21 2010 02:27 goldfishs wrote:
I agree with neobowman, this map is looking pretty nice, I kinda gotta agree on the mineral lines is to open for herassment, I play protoss and muta ling would destroy me on this map
Block the area infront of your ramp with gateway+forge so that you leave 1 hex open that you can block with zealot -> expand -> build cannons at your mineral lines -> tech how you want?
Should work .
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+ Show Spoiler +
I don't know if EffectS changed minor things before releasing it, this is the version I have on the computer.
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On November 21 2010 02:41 Koagel wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't know if EffectS changed minor things before releasing it, this is the version I have on the computer.
Nice, thanks.
I only changed minerals a bit at the 4/5 o'clock main.
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honestly, it looks like kulas ravine without the massive amount of expos
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On November 21 2010 03:25 myl wrote:
honestly, it looks like kulas ravine without the massive amount of expos
I don't see where you get that from...
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Any comments from guys who played it yet? :D
I'm dying to hear some.
( + if you got replay send mehhh! )
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United States10527 Posts
make it so that you can only spawn cross positions... way too close rush distances between top 2 or bottom two. map is also really small, and i encourage more bases...
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