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Haunted Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 12 2010 17:47 GMT
#780
This game is crazy. There's too much going on and too many players.

Everyone needs to remember:
- Vampires know who the other vampires are
- Mafia members know who the other mafia are
- Only Town doesn't know anything
- There are 39 Town-aligned players

If there's a bandwagon against someone and everyone starts to join, it ALWAYS benefits the Vampires/Mafia if they know that person doesn't belong to the same team. So slow down and consider that you're probably voting to kill a Green or a Blue.

If someone finds a clue in a profile, ask yourself:
Did that person check EVERYONE?
Did YOU check EVERYONE?
If not, you are not doing your due diligence and are going to get innocents killed. The people who are leading the bandwagons ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. Those are the people you should be suspicious of.

"Oh guess what everyone? I just found another clue and that means X is guilty. Let's lynch him."

If he flips Green/Blue - "Oh, he's Green/Blue? My mistake!"
otherwise he'll flip whichever Red team he's not on, "Oh he's Vampire/Mafia? Great, see? I'm helping!"

Evaluate the evidence for yourself before you jump on a bandwagon.

As for my vote it goes to Veldril for all of his inconsistencies in the game so far. He's playing like he has information to hide and he's hoping he won't get caught.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 12 2010 20:11 GMT
#799
On October 13 2010 04:55 Bill Murray wrote:
unvote
vote masq

pandain cleared up some stuff
if masq is red, dt check veldril/ghost protect me
if masq is green, we can ignore the connection i thought was there
problem solved


I don't agree with the post you made in the Voting Thread. You seem to know something about Veldril and you're trying to bail him out. Is he going to be your Godfather/Count? Is that why you think he should be DT checked? With all of the posts that you two have made it seems very likely that you're trying to take control of the game. I think that you two are allied and that you're most likely Red and that you're trying to fool us all. You even just sent me a PM trying to fish for my role.

Everyone, we don't have much time. Think about how Bill Murray has been pressuring us this whole game. Think about Veldril's shallow defence. Consider if they were Red and if their behaviour is consistent with that idea. We need to, as a town, come to a consensus and vote one of these two off. If one is Red, then the other will be.

NOTE: I accidentally posted this in the voting thread. Here it is again.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 12 2010 21:35 GMT
#806
This behaviour stinks of anti-town... Don't reveal anything to him. What we need to do is make a plan as a town. Unfortunately tomorrow I have to get on a plane so I'm going to be inactive for quite a while. He's experienced enough to not leave very many clues in his posts but I bet someone could find evidence that he's actually a Red and/or he's actually secretly helping Veldril.

If that is the case, we should cut the two of them apart and vote one out with this first vote.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 13 2010 04:36 GMT
#1132
Bill Murray claimed Zombie in a PM to me too and now he's claiming Jack O' Lantern just to stay alive. He realizes that he's overreached with his play on Day 1. Now he's vulnerable and he knows it.

NO ONE PROTECT BILL MURRAY. DO NOT WASTE YOUR NIGHT ACTION. When he survives the night we'll know BILL MURRAY IS A LIAR.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 13 2010 04:42 GMT
#1146
On October 13 2010 13:37 Bill Murray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 13:35 Glasse wrote:
Hes trying to either
a) waste ghosts
b) kill ghosts and other blues with a brute or something (not exactly sure how everything works yet)
c) hes serious (very unlikely)

I said it 30 times but i'll say it once more... don't trust bill murray until we can confirm what he really is.

more like
IM A COMPLETELY HONEST MAN
WHO HAS A JOB
AND A GIRLFRIEND
I AM A JACK O LANTERN
I PLACE BOMBS AT NIGHT
I CAN MOVE ONE BOMB A NIGHT
IT WAS DUMB TO ROLECLAIM, BUT I NEED TO GET YOU ALL TO TRUST ME

WHY WOULD I ROLECLAIM JOL ?
Here's why:
1) I need to coordinate the town
2) I need to tell the ghosts who to protect to not stack
3) I need to tell the JoL who to bomb to not stack
4) I need to tell the zombie detectives who to check to not stack
5) I need to filter out who is townie and who isnt


OR:

1) You're lying.
2) You don't want to die.
3) For some reason your real life pride is tied up in an internet mafia game and
4) You need to prove that you're "the best player in this game".

I'm not sure which one it is... I know! I'll just keep flipping my vote back and forth and then scenario I didn't vote for is revealed to be true, I'll take credit for it.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 13 2010 04:51 GMT
#1160
I'd like to formally complain to all of the players that Bill Murray is harassing me via PMs. He thinks he's being SUBTLE in his attempts to fish for my role. But it's only subtle to him. It's just annoying to me.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 13 2010 05:23 GMT
#1211
Bill Murray LIED to you DrH. He sent another PM after that but "conveniently" left it out so that it appears that I sent the last message. He did not and I can provide a screenshot to show that. I just thought that common sense would dictate that we be civil in an INTERNET GAME. Jesus.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 13 2010 05:25 GMT
#1213
On October 13 2010 14:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 14:23 kingjames01 wrote:
Bill Murray LIED to you DrH. He sent another PM after that but "conveniently" left it out so that it appears that I sent the last message. He did not and I can provide a screenshot to show that. I just thought that common sense would dictate that we be civil in an INTERNET GAME. Jesus.

We aren't discussing this in this thread.


Okay. =) I was trying to stay out of it but falsified evidence was provided and that just made me rage. That's it from me.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 15 2010 22:52 GMT
#1747
This post lists a lot of great reasons why Veldril is Red... However, it also makes me VERY suspicious about Pandain. If Veldril flips Blue/Green tonight, I'm going to be giving Pandain a very hard look...

+ Show Spoiler +
On October 16 2010 04:48 Pandain wrote:
Alright, again, PEOPLE WHO GOT HIT NEED TO CLAIM.
Also,
Yum Yum analysis Time

A Panda Inspectors view into the Veldril Village

Summary:
Veldril has been very suscipcious this game. From defending a known vampire, to horrible accusations, to many numerous slips that cannot just be explained by his nationality/coincidence. Veldril has not made any real posts of his thoughts on anyone(besides Yogy, and I've already discussed that.). right now, Veldril in my eyes seems certainly vampire. We should lynch him to lower the vampire kp by one.
His posts this game:

Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote:
Reporting in.

Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not.

Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible.



His first post. Doesn't really say anything, admits its not important. As of now, can be expalined away as being new, but keep an eye on it.


Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 15:03 Veldril wrote:
Hey, he's killed by a dagger not sword, lol. And if you buy enough knives then you can literally pierce a person at every spot.


Picking at words, trying to laugh it off. This was after some people brought up the possible clues to him

Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting.


The post that set off the fire. Here we see him defend Masq, yet note that it's not as "certain" as some people may make it out to seem. He doesn't say it doesn't apply, he says we need to be more cautious. In my eyes this is a pro town post, however in retrospect we see Masq is vampire. In addition, he warns against this clue because it is "too obvious." Not a very good reason, but not a very bad post.


Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:
On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote:
On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting.

Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got.


I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea...

Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis.

Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it.


Mmmm... warns that an indictator of mafia/vampire could be that they accuse other people if someone is suspected. What I don't like about this post is he doesn't really give any concrete opinions, he has not as of yet. He's giving general advice, without any real opinions. Even the advice is kept in check by his admitting that he's not sure.


Show nested quote +
On October 11 2010 15:40 Veldril wrote:
Oh and by Mafia/Vampire deflecting blame in the first point of my previous post is that if they are lucky, they could kill other side too.

For Mafia/Vampire, I think they don't care much about who dies in the first couple of days/nights as long as it's not on their side. Townie dies mean they have less choice to make in the next cycle and if they can force townie to vote to kill the other side, then that would make them even have more profit.

Oh and I don't say that Masq is surely not a killer. I just think we need to look further for other clues too before accusing him solely. But he's one of the suspects though.

(Maybe I need a ghost in the first night ).


Says that mafia/vampire don't really care who dies as long as its not one of them. Alright, but wanna go any further? Here he also clarifies(or does he????) his position on masq, he's suscipcious of him, but thinks we need to look for more clues. Yet he doesn't offer anything!

Of course, he could just be lazy, but another thing to note. Also, whats with that last sentence? I'm so confused by that.

Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 00:43 Veldril wrote:
Oh well, I think I deserve to be suspected for protecting Masq. But let's be clear, I'm suspecting Masq too but I don't want to draw conclusion based solely on the story that the GM wrote. To quote what Dr.H written in the introduction:

Clues:
During the day, people die. When people die, clues are left behind by the dastardly mafia (or monsters) that killed them. Clues may refer to a persons profile, name, and signature. They can be taken from anywhere and won't always be so obvious. Keep a sharp and open mind when looking for clues. Remember, clues often times hurt the town more than they help. Analyze but don't go overboard in trying to use clues to your advantage, you may just run yourself in circles. Mafia is a game of deception, guesswork, and manipulation before it is a game of clue analysis. Keep that in mind.


That means the clue might hurt townie like us too.

Now let me response to Bill Murray's post:

On October 11 2010 15:39 Bill Murray wrote:
On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote:
Reporting in.

Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not.

Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible.


This seems very forced. Maybe this, maybe that. I'm voting this guy. Fuck all the clue speculation, let's lynch Veldril over this post.


I like your post here. Yes, I was absolutely did a bad post and deserve to be suspected. But after reading Ver's guide, do you think I would make a same mistake that Misder made in the past? I think not.

On October 11 2010 15:48 Bill Murray wrote:
On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:
On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote:
On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting.

Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got.


I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea...

Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis.

Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it.

LOL. YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU'D BUDDY WHEN MAFIA, AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WITH MASQ. I DON'T MEAN TO BE FUNNY WITH HALLOWEEN-REFERENCES, BUT THAT WAS REALLY THE NAIL IN YOUR COFFIN MR VAMPIRE LOL


Could you please clarify how I admitted that I'm a mafia/vampire? Because I defended Masq? I guess your logic is something like this.

If someone is a mafia/vampire then that person would defend blame on his team mate.
If a person defend other person then those people are teammate.

Veldril defend Masq
Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate.
Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire.

If your logic is like above then I think you have made both formal fallacy and informal fallacy. With an experienced player like you, it is unlikely that you would make such fallacies, unless you ignore them to make an accusation on me with some agendas. Of course, I could be wrong but in that case, could you please clarify why do you think I team up with Masq please?


this post is very, very intersting. Let's see a core assumption this post makes:
1. Masq is mafia/vampire
Why?:
"I deserve to be suspected for protecting masq." But why, if you think we need to look at other people. Why does protecting masq make you a suspect, unless of course you know he's mafia/vampire.

Also he now warns we should be wary of clues, and in retrospect the clue led to Masq being caught. Also, he says "townie like us", but that just seems forced. Very forced.

Then he defends his(he admits?!!!) bad post, but defends that by saying "Do you REALLY think I would do the same thing as Ver described?" Using wifom to defend himself, not good.

Now for another interesting part of this post:
Show nested quote +
Veldril defend Masq
Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate.
Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire.

I believe this is a slip up. I think it's already been noted, but of course I'm going through all of his posts. He doesn't say "Therefore, Veldril and masq are vampire/mafia", he says "Therefore, veldril and masq are VAMPIRE."


Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 00:46 Veldril wrote:
Oh and Bill, I concluded that you are experienced player because you participated in many Mafia game before. You even hosted a game. I checked your post history.


OMG NOTE THAT. This is important for a future post of his. He knows how to use search function.

Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 02:12 Veldril wrote:
On October 12 2010 02:02 Flicky wrote:
My general opinion on the Whole Masq thing is that he's not doing a great job of defending himself despite it only being day 1.

While it's possible it's "too obvious" to some, as soon as I realised it can't have been a Jack O'Lantern framing, the more it seems that's the only lead.

Seems likely to me and that a possible miss-lynch wouldn't be too much of an issue.


After spending time reading rules, I do agree that miss-lynch on the first day is not a big issue. We have 61 players here, with 22 reds. That we have 39 greens/blues. Considering that mafias and vampires each can kill up to 3 people (or have to kill three people I'm not sure, might need clarification on this), we can say that on the first day plus first night, there will be up to 7 people dead. If all dead are hit at townie, then townie will have 32 player left. And worst case would be 7 of either vampire or mafia are killed (only single side), which I believe is very unlikely.


This post just states the obvious, simple logic.


Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 04:07 Veldril wrote:
On October 12 2010 04:00 Bill Murray wrote:
On October 12 2010 00:43 Veldril wrote:
Oh well, I think I deserve to be suspected for protecting Masq. But let's be clear, I'm suspecting Masq too but I don't want to draw conclusion based solely on the story that the GM wrote. To quote what Dr.H written in the introduction:

Clues:
During the day, people die. When people die, clues are left behind by the dastardly mafia (or monsters) that killed them. Clues may refer to a persons profile, name, and signature. They can be taken from anywhere and won't always be so obvious. Keep a sharp and open mind when looking for clues. Remember, clues often times hurt the town more than they help. Analyze but don't go overboard in trying to use clues to your advantage, you may just run yourself in circles. Mafia is a game of deception, guesswork, and manipulation before it is a game of clue analysis. Keep that in mind.


That means the clue might hurt townie like us too.

Now let me response to Bill Murray's post:

On October 11 2010 15:39 Bill Murray wrote:
On October 11 2010 14:46 Veldril wrote:
Reporting in.

Many victims seems to die by a weapon, maybe most are killed by mafia? Or maybe the vampire mimic the mafia style? However, I'm not sure is this important or not.

Also, nice find Glasse. That's really helpful. But maybe we can get more clue from the first night post that make the mafia/vamp more visible.


This seems very forced. Maybe this, maybe that. I'm voting this guy. Fuck all the clue speculation, let's lynch Veldril over this post.


I like your post here. Yes, I was absolutely did a bad post and deserve to be suspected. But after reading Ver's guide, do you think I would make a same mistake that Misder made in the past? I think not.

On October 11 2010 15:48 Bill Murray wrote:
On October 11 2010 15:33 Veldril wrote:
On October 11 2010 15:14 Nemesis wrote:
On October 11 2010 15:11 Veldril wrote:
Another thing is that are we too readily to blame Masq for the kill? The evidence is quite obvious but it could be too obvious sometimes. We need to be a little bit more careful about voting.

Unless you have someone else in mind, then please enlighten us. Right now, it is the best lead we got.


I don't have one specific in my mind right now (that's why I don't vote yet). But I have some idea...

Firstly, because the Mafia and Vampire knows who are on the same team with them, they would want to deflect the blame if a person in his team is suspected. A person who rashly accuses other person could be a Mafia or a Vampire, especially on Day 1. Note that this is not about presenting suspicious players' profiles. But it's more about looking at only one profile and making an accusation without analysis or with an over-analysis.

Secondly, I believe that there's old-school player here so we might be able to check their previous post first before making an accusation. Analyzing the old posts in previous games might become useful if you have time to do it.

LOL. YOU JUST ADMITTED YOU'D BUDDY WHEN MAFIA, AND YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT WITH MASQ. I DON'T MEAN TO BE FUNNY WITH HALLOWEEN-REFERENCES, BUT THAT WAS REALLY THE NAIL IN YOUR COFFIN MR VAMPIRE LOL


Could you please clarify how I admitted that I'm a mafia/vampire? Because I defended Masq? I guess your logic is something like this.

If someone is a mafia/vampire then that person would defend blame on his team mate.
If a person defend other person then those people are teammate.

Veldril defend Masq
Therefore,Veldril and Masq are team mate.
Therefore, Veldril and Masq are vampire.

If your logic is like above then I think you have made both formal fallacy and informal fallacy. With an experienced player like you, it is unlikely that you would make such fallacies, unless you ignore them to make an accusation on me with some agendas. Of course, I could be wrong but in that case, could you please clarify why do you think I team up with Masq please?


my logic is more like this:

you said "as mafia, i would defend someone"
you said so AFTER defending someone
therefore, it is possible you are mafia with them

the fact you are squirming and attacking my logic, while calling me an experienced player claiming I have a hidden agenda (which I don't and it's a fucking straight out lie), is making me really really want you to be lynched.

You are pretty good for a newbie. Your logic is better than mine. My logic sucks. I don't give a fuck if my logic sucks, though, you have made many fucking mistakes. You are mafia. You are either mafia or a vampire, and I'm going to get you lynched.

Sorry.


Hmmm, fair enough. You have your points spoken and that's fine for me.

Well, maybe I jumped my conclusion that "experienced player = player familiar with logic" so if that's not true then my argument would be unsound. But since we really don't know is it true or not, we could just left it for others to decide.


Backs down. I had a pm with Dr. H that one of the major scum tells is someone accusing/making a point, then backing down. Now, obviously townies can do this all the time, but it points towards a scum.


Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 04:21 Veldril wrote:
On October 12 2010 04:16 orgolove wrote:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Ap0Ejzlf165MdENWM3p1cHNOcDlnT0o4bjNUUFdVMlE&hl=en&output=html

So far we have a few people who have had several tells. These may not be conclusive, but just putting it out there:

jodogohoo-"what is mafia" pretended to be noob, changed vote multiple times 1st day
Masq-apart from profile matching the clue, immediately agreed with Veldril when defended
aztrorisk-strongly accused shmotz, switched to masq when others started, defended glasse when his hammer profile pic was mentioned
Bill Murray-happy to kill coagulation/masq, posted PMs with aztorisk (!!!) - untrustworthy?


And we can see that most of the votes are against these few. Now, I don't understand the following votes:
ShmotZ - 1 - KtheZ - (L-30)
seRapH - 2 - NB, coagulation - (L-29)
coagulation - 3 - seRapH, deconduo, jcarlsoniv - (L-28)


These votes can't be explained by the newbie logic of "he voted for me, so I'm voting for him"
What's interesting to note is, seraph accused coagulation, then NB and coagulation voted Seraph back.

Also, I haven't seen jcarlsoniv or deconduo post in this thread, only in the voting thread. These might be from the same faction- I dunno...


Deconduo has posted once.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=159453&currentpage=17#327


alright, we've already established he knows how to use the search function. But then, why did he mislabel the number of posts Deconduo has made? Either:
1. He can't count.
2.Theres an ulterior motive.

I'm going to leave this open to interperation, as I'm not sure myself.


Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 19:02 Veldril wrote:
It seems most people are out for my blood now.

I feel like now when I try to defend or propose something up, most people will come up with even more excuses to vote me. It seems I really made a grudge with Bill Murray, since he's the most vocal to get me killed. I don't really understand why you would want me to get lynched so badly. I would shift a vote off you if you have explain the reason why do you think "defending others" would mean "Red defends Red".

Also, I feel that either me or Masq get lynched, it would not be a good situation for Townie or me at all. If Masq get lynched and turn out to be red, people would still suspect me and that could hurt townie since they would spend their focus on me being red and I would still get fried. If Masq turn out to be green, I don't think some people will let me go free without discrediting me, therefore I could not make impact in the future day/night.

However, if I get lynched today, it would be a game over. It may seems cowardice but I will have to vote for Masq to save myself. I just wish that Masq indeed turns out to be green.


Here he explains his vote for Masq. Note some key things in this statement. Now, he says he's from Thailand, and I believe he is(thus, english not first language.) But these should still be noted.
"It would not be a good situation for townie OR ME." Indicating he's not townie.

"However, if I get lynched today, it would be a game over." Is he soft claiming blue? I'm confuzzled. I don't think he's blue, he would've said something by now.

Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 00:45 Veldril wrote:
On October 12 2010 23:24 jcarlsoniv wrote:
On October 12 2010 22:42 CubEdIn wrote:
I don't get this bandwaggoning that's going on.

WHY is Veldril more important than Masq? We are only voting for him BECAUSE he tried to defend Masq, so if we're voting for him, then we just assume that Masq is also M/V. Correct?

So why not be methodical about it, and start with Masq? If he proves to be a Mafia/Vamp, then we'll know for sure that so is Veldril. If not, then our whole premise was wrong and we should rethink our steps.

How is this an issue? WHY VELDRIL FIRST?

I don't get the reasoning here.


I am not condemning Veldril only because he defended Masq. That was what led into it. His actions afterwards are what convinced me that he should be lynched. He started "chainsaw defending", pointing fingers elsewhere, but not aggressively. He was doing it rather passively, trying to just slip out of view and get the attention somewhere else. When someone created an argument, he conceded very very easily, which I see as an attempt to make fewer enemies. His posts made it seem like he was trying to prove innocence, which is not necessarily something a townie would feel the need to do as much.


I find it odd with your observation here.

When I attack BM's argument back then, I attacked him quite aggressively to make his logic fall apart. Every time I try to defend my position, he respond very aggressively so I have to try other methods to back my argument, which is what make he thinks that by protecting Masq is equal to we teaming up and be on the same team. He still doesn't response me and when orglove try to press him at this point, he also react aggressively.

Also, if most people start accusing you, wouldn't you want to prove your innocence. Since I don't have proof and I don't want to point finger randomly (only to BM now). That's why I stated in the previous post, every attempt of me defending myself looks like I make a bad post as a red, and every aggressive move toward me is a good post or good observation for some people. Doesn't it weird?

Final note, please look at where I come from. You have to consider cultural and personality impact on making arguments too, because sometimes Asian countries have different way to answer. In Thailand, it is most of the time considered polite to be passive when someone make an argument against you. We also consider our false directly in logical argument so we would not misjudge or build a better argument.


Softly(at least) accuses BM. claims he doesn't want to point fingers randomly, but then says (only to BM now.)

Defends his "playstyle" by saying wheres he from. Eh...

Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 16:23 Veldril wrote:
And Masq turns out to be a vampire...

If you guys are so worried about me, role check me if you want. You can even plant a bogeyman to spy whether someone visit me or not to. However, I think that some people are now 100% sure of my role right now.

Remember that town wants to reduce the number of vampire and mafia gradually and have their number similar to each other. Moreover, Mafia now would want to use town vote to kill me more than dirty their own hands. Lynching me now would only help strengthen Mafia.

All in all, reserve your judgment until day 2. There's going to be a lot of killing this night.


This post basically claims vampire. First off "I think that people now are 100% sure of my role right now."
Listen to his reasons for not lynching him:
1. We want to keep vampire/mafia numbers even. Basically claimed vampire there.
2. Lynching me now would only help mafia. Another indictation.

Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 16:42 Veldril wrote:
Don't jump your conclusion yet. There are several reasons that I did not die on Night 2.

1. A ghost protected me.
2. I have been poisoned, therefore will be death the next night.
3. It is better to keep me alive because I have drawn too much attention upon myself.
4. Bum and Youngminii and LSB are better target to kill than me, because they fervently wanted me to get lynched on day 1.
5. It is better to get me lynched than wasting night action/kill on me, especially when many people suspecting me as a vampire.


Alright, this is just a horrible post. First off, he would've claimed a ghost protected him, he can't know if he's been poisoned, and Bum really didn't "ferevantly" want you to get lynched.

Also, if you've drawn too much attention to yourself, obviously you've done something wrong. It's true perhaps mafia wants us just to kill veldril via lynching, but personally I would still be okay with it because it lowers the vampire kp by one.

Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 19:06 Veldril wrote:
On October 14 2010 18:56 KhrisKruel wrote:
On October 13 2010 16:23 Veldril wrote:
And Masq turns out to be a vampire...

If you guys are so worried about me, role check me if you want. You can even plant a bogeyman to spy whether someone visit me or not to. However, I think that some people are now 100% sure of my role right now.

Remember that town wants to reduce the number of vampire and mafia gradually and have their number similar to each other. Moreover, Mafia now would want to use town vote to kill me more than dirty their own hands. Lynching me now would only help strengthen Mafia.

All in all, reserve your judgment until day 2. There's going to be a lot of killing this night.


Can you explain this?

If you were a townie, how would your death strengthen the mafia?

To me this is basically a vampire claim


Basically, it is because by lynching me, Mafia has nothing to lose.

If I'm green, it just at worst a miss but they would not lose a member and maintain 2 more members than a vampire. They can even trace back and analyze to find more possible vampire's member by looking at voting and posting on day 1 relating to accusing me.

If I'm a vampire, then basically they reduce the KP of vampire down by 1, and has 3 more members than vampire. That means vampire would be less likely to kill Mafia on Night 2 because they can only kill 2 people, while mafia can kill 3 . In this case (lynching me and I turn out to be a vampire), assuming that they both kill each others perfectly, vampire would be reduce to 4 people but Mafia would be only reduce 8, gaining even more leading.


explanation.

Show nested quote +
On October 14 2010 23:55 Veldril wrote:
Whether I'm a vampire or not is not a problem right now. The issue is that by lynching me today, Mafias would gain advantages over Town and Vampire.

If I flip green, they use previous vote to trace back who is vampire. Even if they miss on night 2, there would still have suspects list that could be used later to fish out vampire. It could also put a townie who vote for me on day 1 in danger.

If I flip blue, well... I think I don't have to explain how this would affect town.

If I flip vampire, they gain a lot of advantage as I explained in the previous post.

Right now, town's best interest should be thinning down the number of mafias first. And when vampire and mafia number are approximately equal, then town can choose the course of action at that point, be it lynching me, other known/suspected vampires or known/suspected mafia.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now let me presented a possible Mafia player that we should vote for today: Yogy

The reasons that we should lynch this person are:

1. He voted Masq without posting anything before. If he's Mafia, then he would know that Masq is not on his team. Voting Masq, whom the clue implied to be a killer, would be the best vote to get rid of a vampire.

The date and time he voted Masq is

On October 11 2010 16:37 Yogy wrote:
Vote Masq

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6559376

2. Later, he came up with this post:

On October 13 2010 01:41 Yogy wrote:
I've been pretty inactive in posting I confess, new to this and trying to get the hang of it. No one has been telling me what to do or who to vote to lynch, I've come to that decision myself.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=6572368

Why would someone tell that there's no one telling him what to do or vote if he acted independently? If he indeed acted independently, he should have a reason why he voted for Masq, may it be he is so sure about the clue or else. Moreover, he posted this after someone compile the number of posts each player made. For me, it is very suspicious.

3. He is always inactive. Except the post I quote above, he make no other posts at all. By voting him right now would force him to be more active and we could get more information out of him that would benefit town.

Therefore, with these three reasons above, I placed my vote on Yogy.


To me this is just trying to change the direction of the bandwagon on him onto another player. Except its not a very good argument for lynching Yogy(no clues apply we can see, alot of people are inactive, and i thought you said you don't like random finger pointing.)

The "If i flip blue" sentence indicates he's not blue. He's not worried about that situation.

Now some more interesting tidbits:
"Right now, town's best interest should be thinning down the number of mafias first" Not him, aka not vampires. Another unintentional(?) claim.

"be it lynching me, other known/suspected vampires or known/suspected mafia." Note its OTHER known/suspected vampires, and just known/suspected mafia in general. Perhaps this is a bit picky, but in combination with all of those other slips, its just too much to pass up.

Show nested quote +
On October 15 2010 03:26 Veldril wrote:
On October 15 2010 03:15 Nemesis wrote:
On October 14 2010 18:44 Veldril wrote:
On October 14 2010 18:28 KhrisKruel wrote:
edit by way of post:

I forgot 4...

Vedril, point 3 and 5 completely contradict each other.

4) all 3 of those people are dead


For point 1-2, it just a possibilities. No one knows am I poisoned or protected or not. If I'm poison then only Vampires know, if I'm protected only ghost who protected me knows.

You were definitely not protected as you didn't seem to know that people who were protected get pmed.
On October 14 2010 13:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If someone is hit and survived I will PM them with that information. If a ghost successfully saves someone I will also PM them.

It's just not public information.


Also, why would the ghost protect you? Stop trying to defend yourself as you are just digging yourself a deeper grave.

Just be happy that people are considering not killing you today and save you for some other day.


Oh, I really skipped that part = =. My bad, sorry. Please skip point 1 then.



-.-

Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
October 19 2010 03:03 GMT
#2209
I've finally caught up in all of this reading... wow, so much has happened.

First off, people are getting too caught up in the "clues". A single word turns the entire town against each other with no proof, whatsoever. We need to think about who is using these "clues" as justification to eliminate other players and what their true intentions are. We are allowing Reds too much freedom to point fingers without any fear of a repercussion.

We have a really big advantage in this game since we started with so many pro-town players and the other two teams need to eliminate each other to win. If we want to retain control of this game, we need to stop jumping on bandwagons and start looking at the quality of the posts. We have to start holding people accountable to their actions. If a player comes out and makes an accusation we should all be investigating the accuser.

Anyway, I'm going to vote for jcarlsoniv. He seemed very pro-town throughout the game. However, this was one of the more strange posts so far that really struck me.

On October 17 2010 23:28 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Holy shit, rough night guys. No vampires down, 3 townies, including a ghost, and then a grim reaper mod kill.

Seeing pandain go is very rough. I didn't trust him at first, but then I started to think he had good motives.

In light of pandain's death, I would like to volunteer myself to replace him as a liason of sorts to the blues. If you role claim to me, I can make sure no blues are wasted by doing the same thing. I already know one JoL, and a DT.


I don't quite know how to interpret this. Would a townie come out and say this? It seems like it came from a Red who wants to seem pro-town.

Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
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