• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:58
CEST 18:58
KST 01:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage3Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
GSL CK - monthly team event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1462 users

PvP FE : BO and Feedback Requested

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
freshjive
Profile Joined August 2010
United States32 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 14:46:57
September 22 2010 14:35 GMT
#1
Note: I am not sure if I have see this before on the forum but I have been having some success with it lately in PvP. I think this strategy is going to hold water now that Zeals take longer to make.

This is going to be a constant probe build, I am looking to get feedback on this more than anything else and see if anyone is using something similar. I have had good success with this and will post replays.

This strategy allows you to EXPLODE at about the 14 minute mark via gateway units as the other P cannot possibly keep up with your production.

Start Build
+ Show Spoiler +

9 Pylon , Scout
Chrono Probes 10, 11
12 Gate
Chrono 13, 14
STOP building probes


by about the 13th probe you should be aware of what the other P is doing, if you see they have dropped a gate and an assimilator. If you see they are going to gate rush you, you have to mirror.

Notice an assimilator? ->Expand at natural with Nexus.

You should have a gateway almost completed at this point at which as soon as you do.

Chrono Zeal to choke and at the same time drop another pylon.

At 17 / 18 drop a core and an assimilator

Keep pumping out probes and zeals and at 4 / 5 zeals push out to the base.

Drop a Gateway Immediately and continue to use the 2 nexus to chono gate tech and units.

At this point unless the other P is doing the same you should start to be able to take over from a macro point. While sending the zeals move your probes over to your expansion and beging to produre more.

4 - 5 more gates. You will need them.

Build the 2nd assim and max out.

YOu will have a very good idea what your oppoentents doing at this point and plenty of minerals to react. You will also have an economic edge. Even if he wipes your zeals you now have 5 - 7 gates to produce units.

Tech Up / Expand FTW.

By the time he gets down to your base you should have a HUGE eco advantage and after you wipe him with some decent micro its almost game over.

I usually do a proxy pylon near his natrual. Keep him in his ramp expand once more and BOOM done.


*Edit: Found some technical mistakes in the post*
If I'm going to bet on anyone, I'm going to bet on myself
Thoramas
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore152 Posts
September 22 2010 14:57 GMT
#2
Interesting FE.

How does the timing of the economic boost from the 2nd base kick in compare to 4 warpgate (warp tech constantly chronoboosted)? Some replays showing this out producing 4 warpgate rushes would be good.
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
September 22 2010 14:58 GMT
#3
Uhh.. this is simply not viable.
Cut probes to make a fast nexus while starting with 4 to 5 zeals??
ANY stalker pressure will kill this build. Also any tech build including colossi rapes this as well....

mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
September 22 2010 15:02 GMT
#4
could you post some replays?

i find this incredibly weak to:
3 gate blink stalker
2 gate stalker openings
colossus attacks

I really dont see a 1 gate expo working, you can go 1 gas 3 gate expo, but this is a little too fast imo
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
freshjive
Profile Joined August 2010
United States32 Posts
September 22 2010 15:04 GMT
#5
I will have a couple of replays up later on today. In the meantime try this out. You are correct You need some microing to hold off early stalker pressure but you should see it coming with the probe scout at 9.

This isn't an answer to everything build. I haven't gotten rushed with it yet because I don't do it if I see I am getting rushed
If I'm going to bet on anyone, I'm going to bet on myself
coltrane
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Chile988 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 15:09:57
September 22 2010 15:06 GMT
#6
Its really hard to judge without even ONE REPLAY

I dont believe this works, but cant really tell, never saw it.

I suppose its vulnerable to colossus.


I think you cant really see if you are getting rushed. I mean, is really easy to drop my plan away and just 4 gate you after I saw your expansion going down. I will have the scouting advantage, because I will have one stalker first. And as soon as I kill your probe with my 1 gated stalker I will chrono my core and put down 2 or 3 gates and steamroll you with 5-6 zealots and growing numbers of stalkers. I will have more gates, better timmings and better economy until your second chrono boost is fully operational, thats like half a minute AFTER I started the unit trading.
Jävla skit
freshjive
Profile Joined August 2010
United States32 Posts
September 23 2010 00:02 GMT
#7
Here is a link for the replay. Unfortutantely some of the other ones I had got deleted. I will see if I can get some more recent stuff up there after tonight.

http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3960

Freshjive 14 FE Protoss
If I'm going to bet on anyone, I'm going to bet on myself
Shifft
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada1085 Posts
September 23 2010 00:13 GMT
#8
No offense, but there's 100% no way that will hold up in higher level play.
=O
freshjive
Profile Joined August 2010
United States32 Posts
September 23 2010 00:24 GMT
#9
If you notice I played terrible and should have had 6 WGs down when I had 3. I am going to tweak it some more. Anyway who wants to play against me with this please add me I want to see if this is viable.
If I'm going to bet on anyone, I'm going to bet on myself
zinistr
Profile Joined April 2010
United States23 Posts
September 23 2010 00:32 GMT
#10
my build is very similar to this but I expand at 26 probes or so and I think my build is better because of it... However I must commend that the timing of the expansion is pretty safe when you see the 13 gate etc but Seriously if youre getting rushed/you will Mirror regardless...

I keep probes chronoboosted because 1) the travel distance for enemy units vs my units having not been chronoboosted will even out. Pretty much Chronoboost time save ~= Travel Distance for the enemy. So the units I have at defense should be able to match his at a timing push (not a rush, if it was a rush, i wouldve mirrored).


But more so, I expand a little later than you because I have probes to transfer over to the new Nexus vs yours being not able to. If i FE early, I wont have extra probes to transfer over and reap the benefits of a FE. Honestly that is the problem of FE in general, the benefits arent gained immediately unless you have the workers to transfer because of 1) transfer travelling time will actually get you a loss in minerals and 2) diminishing returns of additional workers, at a FE you dont experience this and "NEED" to expand

You can also pump out a sufficient number of Stalkers and Sentries to mix with Zealots off of 1 gas. As long as you arent planning to tech, you can live off of 1 gas for quite some time.
The pure essence of war is deception - Sun Tzu
freshjive
Profile Joined August 2010
United States32 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-24 00:10:08
September 24 2010 00:08 GMT
#11
http://sc2.replayers.com/replays/view/3992

Here is a replay where the guy sees what i'm doing. Sends zeals to contain it and goes down pretty quick.

I think this build is viabale in PvP. I change it so I do 12 gate, 14 expand, 15 pylon. This way I don't get supply blocked. Still working on it.

Thoughts / feedback?

guys is plat 2 v 2 im still not playing super high lvl people vs this

I think theres a pyscological effect too, you see the expansion is already going down and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

Warp units cant get there fast enough again because its too far and I know you arent going all in because I scouted it.
If I'm going to bet on anyone, I'm going to bet on myself
Knickknack
Profile Joined February 2004
United States1187 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-24 00:42:39
September 24 2010 00:34 GMT
#12
As others have pointed out the build is poor.

See this decent pvp 1gate expand. "FE" btw traditional refers to expand before gateway builds.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=144036

Its basically like 1gate expo in pvt. This seems the most viable way to expo quickly in pvp.
1gate tech wg+units, expo ~30psi, add 2gates right away.
vs various builds such as 2gate zealot you have to adapt and not expand.
Its surprising viable vs 4gate, especially higher probe production ones or poorly done ones. Vs well done low eco 4gate you lose. Probably best vs stargate or robo builds. And loses vs dts...so might want to fit a forge in there.

Also made popular by day9 doing huk vs adelscott. Though not surprisingly day9 misses the big points. Huk goes 2gate robo 2gas somewhat high probe count and is cross map, sees the expo so cancels robo and goes sentry heavy 5gate, so the production is obviously too little too late.
| www.ArtofProtoss.vze.com |
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 371
Hui .306
UpATreeSC 144
BRAT_OK 87
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4195
Jaedong 2517
Bisu 2031
Soma 879
ZerO 611
Snow 547
Larva 515
Rush 501
Shuttle 375
Mini 321
[ Show more ]
firebathero 293
Light 264
ggaemo 192
Soulkey 182
JYJ 112
Dewaltoss 65
Sharp 45
Shinee 31
Terrorterran 26
Movie 15
910 12
GoRush 9
Dota 2
Gorgc6676
Counter-Strike
fl0m2085
ceh9394
adren_tv90
Other Games
Grubby3125
FrodaN1081
B2W.Neo597
ArmadaUGS125
KnowMe110
QueenE101
Mew2King53
ZerO(Twitch)21
Trikslyr20
sas.Sziky10
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 14
• Reevou 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV827
• lizZardDota290
League of Legends
• Nemesis3424
Other Games
• Shiphtur202
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
7h 2m
Replay Cast
16h 2m
Kung Fu Cup
18h 2m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
The PondCast
1d 17h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.