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Hey there! I'm a Diamond league Terran player named Crimson, formerly played as JohnHognic in beta phase. I introduced couple of new strategies for TvZ during the beta, and I think I made a pretty sweet opening for Terran that works on both TvT and TvP. Enjoy!
A Guide to 10-rax Marauder Opening
![[image loading]](http://us.media.blizzard.com/sc2/media/artwork/unit_terran_marauder-large.jpg)
Just another day at work for this god of destruction
Table of Contents
1. Problem of standard 12-rax Marauder
2. Build Order
3. Adaptations
- vs. Terran
- vs. Protoss
4. Counters
- For Terran
- For Protoss
5. Replays
1. Problem of standard 12-rax Marauder
When the first phase of beta started back in February, everybody learned to love and hate Marauders immediately. Marauders were sturdy, packed quite a punch (especially structures), and most importantly, had an ability to slow non-Massive type units. Pretty soon people started to rush Marauders with 10 supply/12 rax/13 techlab build order, and this became standard for Terran players for quiet some time.
However, people prefer Marines over Marauders nowadays as a standard build order, as they have found some flaws with 12-rax Marauder build. What are the flaws? 2 things pop up in my mind right now;
1. It was too predictable: by the time you have made your barracks, the opponent's scout will almost certainly at your base, which gives the opponent a plenty information (eg. techlab) that you are going for Marauder.
2. It was too late to do significant damage: the reason 9/10 rax Reaper build is so scary is because the opponent will not have enough time for a perfect defense, leaving you an opportunity to do moderate damage to make up for the lesser economy of yours. Marauders, however, gave you enough time for the opponent to get units to counter your first Marauder, even without a proper scouting. His Stalker/Marine/Marauder will be ready at the choke for your Marauder.
Then what kind of opening is needed to make Marauder more useful than the standard build? Simple, just make them faster, at 10-rax timing like 10-rax Reaper build that everybody loved to use!
2. Build Order
*Note that purpose of this opening is to strongly pressure your opponent to even out the economies which you were initially behind against standard 12-rax or 12-gateway build. Because you are the initiator, the flow of the game goes into your hand.
10 Barracks - Scout with this scv upon completion
10 Refinery
10 Supply Depot
*Upon completion of Refinery, put total of 3 scvs mining the gas
12 Techlab on Barracks
*Upon start of construction for Techlab, take away 2 scvs in the gas (1 scv mining the gas)
13 Marauder - Continue pumping Marauders
* Stop scv construction at 13 and begin pumping Marauders until 19/19
17 Orbital Command
17 Supply Depot
*Upon completion of Orbital Command, calldown MULE and put 2 scvs back in the gas (3 scvs mining the gas)
The 10-rax Marauder opening is very similar to 10-rax Reaper build, but with a little tweak - you take away scvs mining the gas to boost your mineral income, which gives you exactly 100 mineral and 25 gas for your first Marauder, and continue to give you at least 100 mineral and 25 gas for the continuous production of Marauder until the Orbital Command is completed!
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img64/6023/screenshot2010080221241.jpg)
Pull out 2 scvs from your Refinery around this timing
Notice how short the build order is - this is because it is only the opening build order and after 19 supply or so, you have number of different route you can take with. You may expand, build more Barracks, or build Factory and Refinery for higher tech-line. The strength of this build is the flexibility for easy transition to any other build, while your Marauders can pressure the opponent extremely well.
*Please note that you can proxy this build order as well to give even bigger window of opportunity, but use it at your own risk as this becomes more like all-in than an opening!
3. Adaptations
As the title says, this build works surprising well for both Terran and Protoss match-ups.
vs. Terran
If Terran is going for a standard 12-rax build, he will most likely have 1 or 2 Marines at the entrance, possibly 3rd one coming, while building a Factory for a Tank. A single Marauder can take out 2 Marines quiet easily, and with continuous flow of Marauders, your Marauders can overwhelm his Marines pretty soon. Now you have a window of opportunity to deal some serious damage to his economy. Either kill off as many scvs as possible, or destroy some of key buildings like Supply Depots or Techlabs to delay his production line.
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img843/5188/screenshot2010080220340.jpg)
Deal as many damage with your Marauders until solid defense is made
If Terran is going for a 10-rax Reaper build, his Reaper will arrive when your Marauder is already completed! Since your scouting scv will likely find an empty base when your Marauder pops out, you can simply wait for few seconds for his Reaper, punish him for being so late, and rush to his base while stationing 1 Marauder at your base to possibly end the game!
But wait, Terran can build bunkers upon scouting your techlab, can't it? Why of course, but here is the dilemma Terran faces; he needs to figure out whether you are going Reaper or Marauder;
- If the opponent thinks you are going Reaper, the bunker will be built near the mineral line, giving you an opportunity for your Marauder to run to his ramp and start the bunkering of yourself!
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img688/7128/screenshot2010080220290.jpg)
Building a bunker at mineral line to defend against what seems to be an imminent Reaper rush backfires Terran
- If the opponent think you are going Marauder, the bunker will be built near the entrance, which gives you an opportunity to build 1 Reaper and attack his mineral line for diversion! If he pulls out Marines to kill your Reaper, rush with your Marauders (which will be around 3 or 4 by then) to quickly kill off empty bunkers!
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img651/2410/screenshot2010080220344.jpg)
Terran may turtle up with solid static defenses
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img710/2811/screenshot2010080220345.jpg)
Use 1 Reaper to pull out Marines out of bunkers...
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img267/2023/screenshot2010080220352.jpg)
And take this opportunity to break his frontal defense!
After heavily pressured by Marauders, Terran will usually tried to use his technological advantage to build Banshees, as Marauders cannot attack air. In fact, if you can save more Marauders from the initial attack and return them to your base, he is force to go for Banshees because any other ground units will be destroyed by your superior number of Marauders. If you think he is surely going for Banshees, simply tech up to Starport while building Turrets around your base, and greet him with Vikings and Turrets. =)
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img441/6514/screenshot2010080220362.jpg)
Opposing Terran's last effort to win is denied by preemptive Viking and Turrets
vs. Protoss
Against Protoss it is a bit more tricky, but same method can be used as shown from TvT.
If Protoss is going for standard 12-gateway build, he has a choice of getting Zealot before Stalker, or rush to Stalker to save 100 minerals. Again, upon seeing your Techlab on Barracks, Protoss will choose either Zealot or Stalker.
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img197/3816/screenshot2010080220373.jpg)
Believing the imminent Reaper rush, Protoss skips Zealot and gets Stalker first
If he gets Stalker first, your Marauder will have overwhelming advantage. If you can spare minerals, try bunkering with your scouting scv and you might deal some deadly damage on his production lines.
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img15/7751/screenshot2010080220384.jpg)
A heavy damage has dealt on Protoss's production line
If he gets Zealot first, it is wiser to strike with at least 2 Marauders to take advantage of your superior range. Try to put scvs back on the gas to get Concussive Shells upgrade as soon as possible to exploit the range difference even further. This will be almost even match, so the outcome depends on your micro against his. Just like against Terran with bunkers on the entrance, getting a single reaper to make a diversion is also a viable strategy.
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img842/3812/screenshot2010080620554.jpg)
With careful micro, Marauders can deal with a Protoss going for Zealot first quiet well
If Protoss is going for fast proxy-gateway build, you just need to switch to reaper and deal with the incoming Zealots. Since this is 10-rax rather than 12 rax, you can get Marauder or Reaper before his Zealots can arrive, which gives you much easier time to handle the rush.
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img153/9476/screenshot2010080220394.jpg)
A Terran player is happily greeting this Voidray
Just like Terran, if you did significant damage on the Protoss and has ample number of Marauders and/or Marines left, he is forced to get Voidrays to hard counter your Marauders. Build Turrets and Marines (or Vikings) preemptively to punish his tech-choice if you think he has no choice but to go for Stargate build.
4. Counters
Of course, this is one of the many openings Terran can use, and some counters are always presented for any openings. Since this opening is aimed to punish standard 12-rax and 12-gateway opening, any non-standard openings like below gives an opponent advantage.
Terran
10-rax Marines: with this build, initial Marines can overwhelm your first Marauder candidly. Unless the opponent sends the scout extremely early, chance of having this build against yours is completely random.
12-rax Marauder: this isn't as strong counter as 10-rax Marine, but Marauder vs. Marauder gives you completely equal footing, rendering this opening useless. You will still have few seconds of opportunity before his first Marauder comes out, so use it to pick off his scvs. If you can get 2 scvs, both players' scv count will be equal, giving you an equal footing in terms of economy. Because your 2nd Marauder comes much earlier than his, you can still continue to pressure the opponent, but not as strong as standard build.
Protoss
10-gate Zealots: similar to 10-rax Marines, the opponent will have at least 2 Zealots when your Marauder arrives, assuming you did not go for a proxy. Again, having this build will be completely random unless your opponent sends very early scout.
In conclusion, because standard builds are so much popular (albeit named "standard") than others, you will likely have more chance to be matched against standard build than the build orders mentioned above.
5. Replays
Here are some of demonstrations I did against Diamond level players.
Patch 1.01
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-135209.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-135211.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-135212.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-135330.jpg)
Patch 1.02
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-136334.jpg)
More replays will soon to come. Please upload your version of replays in this thread to be linked here as well!
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Thanks for reading this guide! I hope you can get fun time playing this unorthodox build sometimes to break the boring cycle of 12-rax build! =D
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How does this work against the siege tank/viking/marine build?
This seems to me like it could very easily negated. If you go 10rax, your Terran opponent is going to scout it, and regardless of whether or not you go reaper/marauder, the initial SCV is going to see it and the Terran will respond accordingly.
Sounds very all-inish to me.
Even if you open up with marauder first and then use your reapers as a distraction, the Terran will be constantly making marines and teching up towards tanks. With SCVs, marines, and a couple of bunkers, this should be negated pretty easily.........
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1 rax is not allinish in any way. It's an opening build that sacrifices economy slightly to do harassment damage if he goes stalker first or if there is a vulnerable supply depot that you can snipe and force the other player to spend money on static defense such as bunkers (even if temporary).
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On August 03 2010 12:12 Sadistx wrote:
1 rax is not allinish in any way. It's an opening build that sacrifices economy slightly to do harassment damage if he goes stalker first or if there is a vulnerable supply depot that you can snipe and force the other player to spend money on static defense such as bunkers (even if temporary).
Sorry. Bad word choice. I guess what I'm trying to say that it doesn't seem that strong and efficient in going for harassment.
In terms of supply depots, do Terrans still wall in TvT? I know I don't, and a lot of Terrans have been favoring placing their supply depot in their base or near their mineral line. In terms of placing static defense, I don't know. TvT in SC2 seems a little similar to SC1 in the sense that it's very gas heavy and you're going to have excess minerals.
So spending money on bunkers, regardless of how early, seems good enough to fend off this rush and still come out even or ahead.
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On August 03 2010 12:15 Zergneedsfood wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2010 12:12 Sadistx wrote:
1 rax is not allinish in any way. It's an opening build that sacrifices economy slightly to do harassment damage if he goes stalker first or if there is a vulnerable supply depot that you can snipe and force the other player to spend money on static defense such as bunkers (even if temporary). Sorry. Bad word choice. I guess what I'm trying to say that it doesn't seem that strong and efficient in going for harassment. In terms of supply depots, do Terrans still wall in TvT? I know I don't, and a lot of Terrans have been favoring placing their supply depot in their base or near their mineral line. In terms of placing static defense, I don't know. TvT in SC2 seems a little similar to SC1 in the sense that it's very gas heavy and you're going to have excess minerals. So spending money on bunkers, regardless of how early, seems good enough to fend off this rush and still come out even or ahead.
This opening will have you 2 scvs behind the opponent, so as long as you can deal damage equal to this difference, your opening becomes quiet successful. You will be behind in tech, so this will be one of the trade-off you are getting for early control of the map.
Building a bunker delays the opponent on either Orbital Command or Factory in my experience, which is the trade-off for the opponent as well. He is giving up faster tech or MULE for the static defense.
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For serious?
Hmm......I'll have to double check something first, but if what you say is true....then it could potentially be worth it, though I highly doubt that going 10rax means that the opponent has a late Orbital.
10rax = finish at around 12/13, which means if your opponent went 11/12 rax, he'll have his OC at around 14/15. I don't think Terrans instinctively throw down a bunker when they see potential marauder/reaper. Especially Terrans that know they can handle a marauder just fine with a couple of marines/scvs. Therefore, OC shouldn't be delayed.
Anyway, I'm going to rest my case for now. I'll have to watch the replays and experiment with your idea before going any further.
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On August 03 2010 12:30 Zergneedsfood wrote:
For serious?
Hmm......I'll have to double check something first, but if what you say is true....then it could potentially be worth it, though I highly doubt that going 10rax means that the opponent has a late Orbital.
10rax = finish at around 12/13, which means if your opponent went 11/12 rax, he'll have his OC at around 14/15. I don't think Terrans instinctively throw down a bunker when they see potential marauder/reaper. Especially Terrans that know they can handle a marauder just fine with a couple of marines/scvs. Therefore, OC shouldn't be delayed.
Anyway, I'm going to rest my case for now. I'll have to watch the replays and experiment with your idea before going any further.
Yes, if Terran thinks he can handle a Marauder with Marines and scvs only, OC won't be delayed. Otherwise either OC or Factory will be delayed for few seconds since he has to spend 100 mineral on a bunker first. I agree with you that Terran player doesn't just throw down a bunker for his standard build, which makes this opening viable for standard 12-rax build. Please try to experiment yourself as I would like to see more feedbacks from you. =)
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Try:
11 Barracks
11 Refinery
11 Supply Depot- wait until 5 seconds before the barracks finishes to start.
11 Orbital Command
11 Tech lab
You'll have exactly enough resources to start the OC and Tech lab when the barracks finishes with the supply depot finishing exactly when the tech lab finishes to start your first marauder.
Then make marauder and research concussive shells as soon as you can. Two SCVs after your Orbital Command finishes, stop SCV production for a moment to fit in that third marauder under 19 food. I think it's a better build order that does the same thing. Then the rest of your stuff.
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This build TvP is quite the powerhouse on almost any map, except Metalopolis and Lost Temple at cross positions. I know for a fact LZ uses a variant on this as his go to 2-player map TvP build. He instead usually does something such as
10 Rax
10 Refinery
11 Orbital, Techlab
11 Depot
There is a little 2-3 second delay between the Tech lab finishing and then the Depot finishing, but it gets 2 Marauders faster than any normal build can get 2 Stalkers.
I would like to know your thoughts on this version, with the quick Orbital to recoup the worker disadvantage, rather than the later Orbital. He usually is able to expo very quickly after adding 1-2 Rax more.
What kind of transition out of your TvP 10 Rax do you normally end up doing?
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interesting build... ill have to give it a shot, what is the most common way to followup? i saw the thor/marines/vikings.. but what else do you do? the reaper too was nice.
what would you say your winning % is with this strategy?
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Ive done a build similar to this and manage to snipe the opponents 1st tank.
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i jus tried ur build against terran i gt completely pwned by 12 rax marines cos he walled his ramp. reaper was also pwn by his marines and maruadar. i manage to camp outside his base wid mass mauradar and tech to tanks. game end wid him getting banshee and i had no AA lol. so wad can i do against a wall off terran?
i also tried ur build on a protoss and the game was trashing, he went 2 gate zealots and couldn't counter the slow. however if a protoss went 4 gate, and manage to ward off my rush. wads a good counter?3 rax mass mauradar ?
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On August 03 2010 11:55 mrlie3 wrote:
Protoss
10-rax Zealots
Heh... I'm thinking some good sentry/zealot micro can throw wrenches in your machinery, you didnt really coer the sentrys in your analysis.
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I think the point is that the marauders get there before a core, and so before any Sentry antics. They will stop a slightly later push sure, but not this one I don't think.
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When to incorporate concussive grenade upgrade? By your build it appears it wont be started before 19/19. Without slow zealots is actually more cost effective than stalkers vs mauraders.
I experiemented with an all-inish pressure build on 1 player maps vs p. Idea being proxy rax maurader, research slow ASAP and pump one rax maurader whilst I tech to factory. Toss will be forced to commit to 2 gate no tech early on. The rax is sacrificial whilst I get another rax and fact in base. Not particularly solid though. I found if I want toss to go heavy gates, the easiest way is just to steal one gas..
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Fucking awesome read man. Took me a while, and picture books>text books so you own.
But this is better.
9rax
10 gas
10 supply
11 OC
See what I did there? I did what you did but made it even earlier. You almost always start with a reaper with this bo, but that's really good, what you want.
You get earlier gas, earlier oc, your economy stays strong (tiny bit slow at first), and guys out quicker than 10 rax build. If you want marauders so fast this works too because of the super fast techrax. This makes things easier to transition than 10 rax too because of the faster gas, or super fast 2nd gas for heavy tech builds.
If I remember correctly, against toss I end up getting my shells a lot faster than 19/19 too.
With that all being said, you put a lot of effort towards this and I don't mean to attack your idea. More suggesting a better option, or maybe I would like to hear what you think about 9 rax instead of 10.
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On August 03 2010 12:57 Mnijykmirl wrote:
Try:
11 Barracks
11 Refinery
11 Supply Depot- wait until 5 seconds before the barracks finishes to start.
11 Orbital Command
11 Tech lab
You'll have exactly enough resources to start the OC and Tech lab when the barracks finishes with the supply depot finishing exactly when the tech lab finishes to start your first marauder.
Then make marauder and research concussive shells as soon as you can. Two SCVs after your Orbital Command finishes, stop SCV production for a moment to fit in that third marauder under 19 food. I think it's a better build order that does the same thing. Then the rest of your stuff.
I think this opening is great if you are going to get concussive shells faster than the OP. Will try this to see whether late barracks diminishes the timing you can get with the first Marauder or not. Thx Mnijykmirl! =)
On August 03 2010 13:08 Sleight wrote:
This build TvP is quite the powerhouse on almost any map, except Metalopolis and Lost Temple at cross positions. I know for a fact LZ uses a variant on this as his go to 2-player map TvP build. He instead usually does something such as
10 Rax
10 Refinery
11 Orbital, Techlab
11 Depot
There is a little 2-3 second delay between the Tech lab finishing and then the Depot finishing, but it gets 2 Marauders faster than any normal build can get 2 Stalkers.
I would like to know your thoughts on this version, with the quick Orbital to recoup the worker disadvantage, rather than the later Orbital. He usually is able to expo very quickly after adding 1-2 Rax more.
What kind of transition out of your TvP 10 Rax do you normally end up doing?
Yes faster OC instead of scvs are always a nice option you can choose. Actually, I should test this to see whether fast OC gets you a better economy overall. Thanks for the input Sleight!
As for the transition, you can generally see what kind of unit composition the opponent is getting with your initial Marauders and scouting. Usually (but not always) both Terran and Protoss tend to get air units to bypass Marauder pressure, so I usually get turrets first, then deal with air units with either Vikings or Marines. Obviously, I get Factory first for Viking and 2nd(or even 3rd) Barracks for Marines. From this on, things will usually transition to normal TvT and TvP, except you get a better control of the map until sizeable Siege Tanks or Immortals come into play.
On August 03 2010 23:28 Chunkybuddha wrote:
Fucking awesome read man. Took me a while, and picture books>text books so you own.
But this is better.
9rax
10 gas
10 supply
11 OC
See what I did there? I did what you did but made it even earlier. You almost always start with a reaper with this bo, but that's really good, what you want.
You get earlier gas, earlier oc, your economy stays strong (tiny bit slow at first), and guys out quicker than 10 rax build. If you want marauders so fast this works too because of the super fast techrax. This makes things easier to transition than 10 rax too because of the faster gas, or super fast 2nd gas for heavy tech builds.
If I remember correctly, against toss I end up getting my shells a lot faster than 19/19 too.
With that all being said, you put a lot of effort towards this and I don't mean to attack your idea. More suggesting a better option, or maybe I would like to hear what you think about 9 rax instead of 10.
9-rax also sounds great Chunkybuddha! Compared 11-rax mentioned above, you are having more risk for faster Marauder, which I think is also a viable opening. I just have a question though; do you pull out scvs like I did or continue to put them in the gas?
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Overall, I think all 3 openings mentioned above are legitimate build for Terran. I will try all of them to see the difference between these builds! =)
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why would you make 10 barracks then make marauders? =)-
srsly though, get on bnet so you can help my TvT, duno what to do now, so torn between marauders/thors/tanks and tank/viking/marine
QQ
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and i like your build btw for tvt on short distance maps, i've been looking for a different opening for my marauders instead of 12rax15orbital or 9rax9gas
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On August 03 2010 18:35 potchip wrote:
When to incorporate concussive grenade upgrade? By your build it appears it wont be started before 19/19. Without slow zealots is actually more cost effective than stalkers vs mauraders.
I experiemented with an all-inish pressure build on 1 player maps vs p. Idea being proxy rax maurader, research slow ASAP and pump one rax maurader whilst I tech to factory. Toss will be forced to commit to 2 gate no tech early on. The rax is sacrificial whilst I get another rax and fact in base. Not particularly solid though. I found if I want toss to go heavy gates, the easiest way is just to steal one gas..
In the OP, he says to get concussive if you see a zealot or wait for the second marauder. You should be able to see the zealot if you can keep your scouting scv alive. If you do see a chronoboosted zealot, building one reaper will deal with it handily . If P were to see such an early tech lab and gas, i bet he'd think you were going reaper (hiding it in the corner of your base might produce a better effect). Then he'd go stalker which is owned by marauders.
I wonder you could leave 2 scvs on gas to get a reaper after the first marauder. Reapers just rape buildings and probes.
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EPT
