Godfather Mafia

On June 27 2010 11:22 Divinek wrote:


thank god his name isnt like W or something

You are free to lie

On July 01 2010 01:01 youngminii wrote:

But now if GF read your post, he might recruit one of the 'bad' players in line with your argument.
WIFOM

Player List:

1. Chezinu
2. BrownBear
3. YellowInk
4. zeks
5. Thegilaboy
6. Divinek
7. Bill Murray
8. citi.zen
9. L
10. DCLXVI
11. Hesmyrr
12. youngminii
13. bumatlarge
14. Korynne
15. lakrismamma
16. Abenson
17. ElyAs
18. AcrossFiveJulys
19. rastaban
20. BrowneY

On July 01 2010 12:49 Qatol wrote:

Please god no. Smurf game was an absolute failure because it turned into us searching for akas instead of roles. It might be a little better if people can't communicate privately (an ability I miss a lot these days), but I think it would still devolve into searching for akas.

On July 01 2010 12:43 BrownBear wrote:
Sadly, Qatol, I'm still relatively noob. This is only like my 5th game or so. I've read some of the older games, and hoooly shit those must have been fun. Kind of considering hosting another smurf game, but not for a while/I'd have to ask Plexa first since that would be placing a ton of stress on him.

Also, Korynne, everyone seems to place us together cause we're like the 3 main "new players" or something like that, I guess.

Anyway, I'm gonna do what BM did and say who I think likely recruits are...

Since Ace isn't in the game, that leaves 4 people I'd consider in the upper echelon of mafia players as far as logic/seeing them play goes: Korynne, Bill Murray, YellowInk, L. Of these 4, I'd say Korynne or L are the most likely of the "top tier" to have been recruited: BM is a bit too high profile to be noticed, and YellowInk is too obvious, given his status as the current golden-boy rookie. Korynne is probably the best mafia player currently in the game, for an example, I'm going to point to BM's example: his game, where she completely schooled 7 players, and kicked my ass even though I was in the position of knowing exactly who she was for the last 2 days (dammit XeliN). L, meanwhile, is simply too good of a townie to allow to stay townie for long, although sometimes people don't listen to him because he can be abrasive/trigger-happy with the FoS (look to TMMM for a great example where he nailed a mafia in the thread, posted some great reasons why, but nobody listened to him because he'd made too many enemies). However, I don't think any of these guys/girl were recruited night one, because that is far too obvious.

After the top tier, there are the other "good" players: the guys who tend to stay active, post some good analysis, but they aren't top tier cause they're prone to dumb mistakes or bouts of inactivity, or just aren't quite good enough at the game (yet). That would be A5J, Hesmyrr, bumatlarge, DCLXVI, zeks, citi.zen, and Chezinu. These players prove they know how the game works, and I actually think this pool is from where most of the recruits will be drawn, precisely for the reason BM says A5J is likely NOT recruited - they possess a certain under-the-radar quality. We have to assume the Godfather is smart until proven otherwise, and I think a smart Godfather would try to recruit the less obvious players, while gently encouraging suspicion against the obvious players - thus, the obvious targets are lynched, while the mafia grows in number and eventually overwhelms the town. Thus, he's going to go for guys like A5J or Chezinu - A5J can avoid detection precisely because people don't expect the same level of activity from him as they do from, say, L, and Chezinu is such a wildcard anyway people will dismiss everything he does as normal Chez behavior, meaning he's actually a very sneaky recruit.

Then, after those guys, we have the rest of the players: either players who are "less optimal" players, or newbies/unknowns. Not a great recruit pool, because there's a higher danger of inactivity.

On July 01 2010 12:38 rastaban wrote:
One thing to keep in mind, the roles were random so it is possible the godfather is a newer player and doesn't quite realize which posters are most valuable. Even then he can probably read previous games and realize who to target.

Anyway I have a semblance of a plan.

In this game the worst thing that can happen is to out a blue as not only can they be killed but they could also be recruited. Not all the blues are equal so here seems the be the priority

Roleblocker
Detective
Jailkeeper
Coroner
Dream Catcher
Veteran
Mad Hatter

I have the Roleblocker listed first because if he blocks even one mafia then they get no night kill. This gives a couple different options. First if we have a confirmed mafia then we can have him blocked which will shut down the mafia. Now the same person can't be blocked twice in a row but if we could find 2 mafia they could be locked down permanently while the rest are sought out.
The best plan for the roleblocker is to start randomly blocking people and if we get a night where there is no kill then you can try again the in 2 nights and cut down mafia kills in half or reveal the culprit. Now this isn't 100% because a veteran and the godfather could be hit and cause this due to 2 lives.

The jailkeeper can keep someone from being recruited, the powerful part of this is that it can be used on the same person multiple times. Assuming that person wasn't recruited this turn (18/20 chance) then if they are continually jailed you actually have someone that you know isn't recruited. One of the good players above would probably be best, though risky since they have a higher chance of a night 0 recruit.

Last thought Bill Murray put up an excellent list, while I don't think he is scum, since they can't directly communicate with the godfather it would be an excellent way to try and suggest some targets for him. Just something to keep in mind

On July 01 2010 12:34 Chezinu wrote:
I cannot believe that this town believes that my behavior is disruptive. You people hardly even know who I am. I have not even spoken a word. If silence causes chaos, then let my voice create order.

To began the task of creating a like-minded community that can overthrow the evil schemes that Kira (Godfather) has ordained as "justice" we must organize ourselves and create a model for the whole town to follow. I think L is a good candidate to lead our investigation for no one knows who this man is or where he comes from. Just like our adversary, Kira..

If you were the Godfather, you would not chose the obvious nor the least likely recruits, but you would choose names that blend in as your average joe. With that said, let us not dwell on the past but on the present and future.

1. No time to act crazy, it is against the rules and hurts town because your death tells nothing.
2. We have new roles and that brings up the standard questions: Are all roles used? How many blues? - I didn't see anything stating that this was a semi-open game.
3. Plans? Should Lovers and Mason roleclaim to rush the mafia while there numbers are low? Should we use this tactic to narrow down the possibility of who the GF could be before mafia numbers grow and the chances of lovers becoming corrupted by the power to kill? Or is this move way too risky? But if we kill the Mothership containing the queen, there will be no reproduction. So we need not focus on the pawns, if we kill one today another will appear tomorrow. If we do dare to go after the pawns, we must hope and pray that the pawn themselves kill the godfather without knowing it themselves. With that in mind, many townies will pretend to be godfather in hopes that the mafia pawns whether it is for selfish reasons to get the mafia to leave them alone
or as an act of conserving their special role or perhaps to be a town hero in some crazy strategy. This behavior will hinder the town in finding the real godfather who may or may not contain scummy behavior. Secret codes to indicate that you are the godfather may need to be banned in order to prevent chaos. DTs should focus on finding the GF, that is your primary objective. Coroner please stick around, for we need you to dig up some graves and examine the bodies. Or perhaps just stick around to examine the unburied bodies.. Not sure what we are going to do with the dead as of right now. Hopefully, we'll end this game before it gets too messy.

For 30% fun:



Did you or did you not use the queen of hearts to decide who would be Juliet?

+ Show Spoiler +

On July 01 2010 14:53 L wrote:
Well, 2 am = sleep time.



BM, wut is this. I expect answers tomorrow mornin'.

G'night.

"Double Lynch
Usable twice per game, the town lynches two people instead of one. This means on the next day everyone gets two votes to distribute between two different people. The double lynch is activated by voting for it in addition to a player (or players if a double lynch is currently activated). The vote must exceed half the number of players voting that day. IE: If there are 20 players voting then the town needs 11 votes to use a double lynch. Double lynches may be voted on starting Day 2. Double lynches may be used on consecutive days. Players cannot place both of their votes on one player when a double lynch is in effect.

On July 01 2010 12:53 youngminii wrote:
Yeah, I see myself as the last choice for the Godfather to pick. Kind of like when you get picked last for sports. Oh God, the humiliation

As for the double lynch, I don't think it's a good idea to do it so early in the game. I mean, the chances of lynching scum/GF is 1/10 even with the double lynch. I'd have thought the double lynch was designed later in the game, when let's say GF has 4 recruits and 2 of them become glaringly obvious. If the number of townies were dwindling, a double lynch would be useful, nay, crucial to the townie's victory. Otherwise (barring non-scum NKs) the number of GF recruits wouldn't drop, whereas the townies would probably reach lylo quickly.

In fact, if it's lylo, even if scum is lynched, the GF will simply recruit another and the mafia would win. So double lynching is 100% necessary for late game.

On July 01 2010 13:12 YellowInk wrote:
A few quick points I want to stick into this flurry.

Mass roleclaim is bad. Bad Chez Bad. Hang the Chez for even suggesting. Cahoots!

Stalemates are not good for town. They're not terrible, either, IF the godfather is dead, but since as a non-roleblocking townie it's hard for one to be sure if we're actually in a stalemate or perhaps had a lucky medic/vet in between two role blocks.

Double lynches should be used in the mid to late game, not in the early game. It's a town empowering ability. Right now we'd be shooting blanks. Later we'll need them to clean up the scum.

If I were the godfather, I would have recruited a top player. Remember that we're going to have a very difficult time lynching any of the skilled players to begin with. While the numbers are thin, they're going to play no differently from any other townie. It doesn't matter that we know who the skilled players are, I am not about to bet the game on lynching L or Korynne or BM tonight. If we were to start lynching these players, the godfather would then switch to going after middling players, so there's not much advantaged to be gained by making a plan to lynch top players.

Ok, so that last point wasn't so quick.

Recruiting games are tough. You can't trust anyone - unfortunately especially those who get named as 'strong'.

On July 01 2010 13:18 BrownBear wrote:
In this game, it looks like the middle is in more danger than the strong players, as most people (myself included) think they'll be recruited.

And now everyone's placing me in the middle pool. Curses. Gotta work harder at being a better player. I'm not striving to be the best player, but I do want to work my skill level to a point where I can at least be considered very good.

But now for some funtimes. Korynne:




Referring to BM's list, placing me as a player minimally likely to be recruited. Then, next page:



OBJECTION! That is a contradiction, missy. Explain yourself?

On July 01 2010 13:25 Korynne wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Man, do I have to explain everything 5 times before people get it? xD
It's not to declare that person as town, it's to not waste lynches on townies. At that point, they are not mafia, so at that point, killing them is lowering town power. We want to keep as many people around as possible.
If mafia chooses not to kill that night, then they wasted a night kill! So instead of killing someone they choose, they have to not kill someone, so that the person we chose dies. That sounds like a pretty friggin awesome deal to me.
We vote to roleblock one person every night, and we vote to lynch that person if no night kill went on at night. So at most 1 person dies per day/night cycle, which prolongs the game which should be good for townies.
We're not really using lynches to find mafia as much as like, forcing mafia+town down to 1KP. And we never let a mafia go unlynched unless it's GF.

This is a perfectly awesome idea unless we have no roleblocker or roleblocker is mafia'd.

On July 01 2010 13:27 Korynne wrote:
Dude you people don't get it! Mafia choosing not to kill anyone is good!

Normal situation:
We lynch X during the day, mafia kills Y during the night.

This situation:
We don't lynch X during the day, mafia kills Y during the night. (we don't lynch X and X can't be mafia)
We don't lynch X during the day, mafia doesn't kill at night and we lynch X the next day. (Mafia doesn't get to kill Y)
We don't lynch X during the day, mafia can't kill at night. (we lynch X, X is mafia)

Use your brain peoples. -.- Simple logic here.

On July 01 2010 13:30 Korynne wrote:


Um, it gives us more townies around. We could always actually lynch someone if we think they are GF. But if we think someone is mafia this is the way to go. The awesome part about this idea is that if we have a town-aligned roleblocker, it means that mafia cannot escape lynch but we just have more townies around.

Also: I'm okay with lynching vet or GF. Since there's probably only one vet, and losing a vet is not a big deal. And like, killing GF by using the fact that he can't die to one night kill actually makes this plan even better!

On July 01 2010 13:30 YellowInk wrote:
Moving on to 'how do we win?'

As should be clear, the godfather needs to be the primary target. Also keep in mind that the mafia don't know who the godfather is. This means the mafia may take out the godfather for us. How do we accomplish this?

Activity levels in the early game are absolutely crucial. I don't care what you're saying, I just want you talking.

If you were a noob-level godfather, you might choose to say almost nothing. The mafia aren't going to hit you because you're not helping the town - they are glad to have inactives hanging out. With an anti-inactivity policy in effect, you're forcing the godfather to talk. So the level 1 godfather would be talking at some moderate amount, but the godfather doesn't want to help the town either, so there are traditional tells to watch for. Being aware of this, just like watching for usual scum, we want to keep a close eye on the middle-of-the-road players that are contributing minimally but being active in the thread. The level 2 godfather might be very active to escape any such scrutiny, though probably not spouting out a plan like I am here.

But we don't even force the godfather to play at this level unless we force everyone to talk. Now since we KNOW almost everyone is town aligned right now, we can rightfully expect almost every single player to be active in thread and putting forth their ideas. Therefore, any player that is playing sub-optimally right now needs to be lynched. If we don't get rid of the inactives now, we'll be plagued with them the rest of the game - and even a DT check won't save their face since they can get recruited.

If we force the godfather to be active, they may get hit by the mafia. If the godfather remains inactive or suspiciously unproductive, we'll lynch for it.

Speaking of DTs, yes, it is worth outing yourself immediately to finger the godfather.

Then, once the godfather is dead, we'll be at a somewhat informed state of the game and be able to immediately go after scum. Hopefully we'll take out a couple scum along the way anyhow - but this should not be a priority. After all, lynching a scum and having one recruited from our ranks is a net loss to us.

Lets get to it, shall we?

On July 01 2010 13:34 youngminii wrote:

You're ignoring the fact that the GF will be recruiting twice as fast, relative to the amount of deaths going on.

Also, consider this scenario:

N1: We vote to roleblock L. Mafia kills BM. People trust L and vote to roleblock someone else. N2: GF recruits L.

It simply won't work.

On July 01 2010 13:35 DCLXVI wrote:

Umm... all of this is fine except the GF recruits another mafia each night so the KP is essentially 2. I don't understand how you think that the mafia not killing someone is a good thing in this scenario -
we roleblock someone
GF recruits (please not a blue role)
no deaths show
we lynch a townie
overall we lose two townies with no chance of hitting a mafia. The only possible benefit is a lucky blue role like DT finding mafia
Yes prolonging the game is a good thing, but not at the expense of having more mafia recruited while killing 0 of them. How are we not wasting lynches on townies in this situation? We are only killing townies.

On July 01 2010 13:48 YellowInk wrote:
Alright, just one last word before I head out for a few hours. The best thing every single town aligned person can do is talk. The preference is to talk productively - we're not going to find the godfather or scum today unless we get super lucky. This is the day you can trust almost every single person around you. Make plans. Talk about how the setup works.

If you don't talk in a productive manner, you will be lynched. I will be grading you.

Furthermore, if your 'productivity' slacks off later in the game it could be because you've been recruited. If we don't have a strong baseline for good activity right now, we won't be able to read it later in the game. Either way we lynch you.

So everyone needs to voice their thoughts and provide new ideas. Every single one of you.

On July 01 2010 14:30 L wrote:

I'm lookin' at it :3.

I see some pretty large problems with it, specifically that mafia KP is 1, which means that a no-hit night is a fantastic way to frame someone. Additionally, there's a problem in that the roleblocker needs to somehow get information into the thread about who he's chosen to roleblock unless we use a set rotation and the moment he does he's gonna get stolen. I also don't see how we can run a rotation if the roleblocker himself might be put into the lineup, because that would be a bit off.

The only workable alternative is that we have the roleblocker come out into the open and we chain-jail him. We can only really do that on day 1 because if we don't, that would be a very, very good place for mafia to gambit and contest the block.

There's also the coroner issue; unless the mafia kp meter is hovering at a breakpoint, killing a mafia won't even be known. Even if we shoot the real roleblocker, the mafia stand in might simply pretend he's blocked someone random and have his team put a no-hit list in.

Put simply, we will not know how many mafia members there are, and whether or not a particular kill of ours is effective until blues step up. The moment another group of blues step in, our jailor won't be able to protect them all from recruit/hits.

That's kinda the catch this game; unlike a game wherein mafia would be outted by a gambit, here we might have an early coroner kill, then zero certainty regarding roles thereafter.

On July 01 2010 14:41 citi.zen wrote:
Lots of confusion here, but I guess that's par for the course. A few thoughts:

1. I like the enthusiastic idea of "going for the GF first" - but without confirmation from a blue role it ain't happening, unless we get exceptionally lucky.
2. Thank god no more "naive" or "paranoid" DTs in this game. Given #1, extending the game gives the blue roles more time to gather information. Korynne's RB idea does this by a very little bit, I don't dislike it so far.
3. Chez and L suggest using the mason / lover pairs... A single mason probably works better since you don't stand to lose two people at once. As Chez says though, they probably know best & can decide together.
4. The mafia "team" is most vulnerable at the beginning, when it numbers 1 or 2 players. This likely impacts their recruitment patterns - ie go for "safer" recruits earlier.
5. youngminii - are you paying attention even a little bit to this game?