• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:39
CEST 18:39
KST 01:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star5Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists14[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced52026 GSL Tour plans announced14Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid22
StarCraft 2
General
Maestros of the Game 2 announced 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group C Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2565 users

Starcraft2 and Racism

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
pacifican
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
4 Posts
May 18 2010 05:12 GMT
#1
There seems to be an overwhelming negativity portrayed towards asian gamers in starcraft2. When Starcraft 2 beta came out, the initial view held by most western gamers was that since starcraft2 was a new game, a new platform , european players would have the 'edge' over asian gamers due to the mystical quality of creativity that european gamers had over asian gamers.

Asians weren't the top starcraft players by being creative , they were only at the top because they played x10 more games than anyone else.
Therefore european gamers would have the edge with starcraft 2 initially because they would adapt to the new game faster, and if a pro scene arose out of starcraft2 in the west, western gamers would be just as good as asian rts gamers if not better.

This view obviously comes from historical roots where europeans have revolutionalized today's epoch and asians are seen as refiners of today's technology opposed to developers. Hence the view, europeans 'create', asians 'refine'.

Dr lynn's book, the IQ and the Wealth of Nations a contraversial book on IQ and wealth puts towards a theory that nations that with higher IQ's are more likely to become technologically advanced as well have the higher GDP. He explains that asian countries such as China were as wealthy or as powerful as european countries, till european countries expanded their trade links in the 16th century throughout the world.

What does trade have to do with this? Trade not only allows for revenue, but an influx of new ideas, thoughts that become assimilated into the culture allowing for more creative processes and ideas. It's only been 50years or so since the asian continent has opened itself to the west , not only in terms of borders, but in terms of ideas. Korea for example during the choson dynasty made it illegal to deal with foreigners for trade or otherwise. This short termed view is what allowed Japan to easily invade korea, a nation that still distrusted foreign ideas, a nation without any rifles.

Past 10 years we've seen a huge shift in the power Hegemony from that of europe towards asia. Why is this happening? Asia in general has learnt from the mistakes of the past and have adopted new ideas, new trends faster than any continent in the world. Technological adaption by the mainstream in asia happens so quickly, trends that lasts for years in the west, only lasts for a few months in Asia. This of course might create another set of problems, but the adaptation of new ideas by asians is not disputable.

What does this have to do with starcraft and not some rant about asian history?

People here cite that the foundations of starcraft were firmed by western innovators such as maynard, slayers ; strategies that would taken a lot longer had it been left alone for the asians to discover.
Back then asians were only just discovering 'online' gaming, and most of asia didn't even have internet access, bar korea. Unlike gamers in the west, asian gamers didn't have access to dune2, cnc and other rts games that allowed them to have a huge advantage over people who played those games before. The vast majority of first time rts gamers including all of korea, were playing BGH maps , this was true in west as well, except it was mainly those who played previous rts who realized rts gaming had strategic depth beyond that of massing 20carriers.

Come today, there is equal footing for all people to play at the top level of starcraft 2 without any disadvantage. Every top rts western player has transitioned themselves towards starcraft2, none of the top korean starcraft players are playing it actively. Idra got flamed to death when he spoke out something everyone with a sense of brain knew. The asian starcraft2 scene is a notch above every other starcraft2 scene. People who never played on the asian server were raging that their view that europe>asia at the beginning of starcraft 2 were proven to be false. Idra had worse stats in US than in Asia, so therefore Asia had worse players was the common argument. An argument forgetting that Idra is playing from outside US with lag, something he doesn't deal with in the asian server.

The recent 4-0 onesided results of the asian/european games shocked the masses into depression that their icons of european gaming were somehow inferior to that of asia.

Wait it's only beta! Things will change!

Starcraft1 constantly evolved due to new strategies and new patches that forced change. Creativity is simply the innovation of existing ideas, not the creation of new ones. When a dominant strategy arises, a counter is played/tested by many players, the more players that test this strategy, the faster a counter arises. When people talk about how starcraft went through 10years of evolution, they forget that it's microevolution, not macroevolution. A new strategy is innovated to counter another innovation, leading to further depth. What exists in Asia that doesn't exist in the west is, mastery of mechanics that none , but a handful of western players have. Every platinum ranked asian player has mastered mechanics, a lot of them aren't the most intelligent of gamers, but given the exact builds/timings, they will pull them off perfectly. This results in strategies being tested/trialed at the highest levels very quickly, and either being discarded or evolved. In other servers, a lot of the strategies don't get tested properly, because the opponents even while doing the perfect counter , will lose due to poor mechanics. Neither player benefits from the wisdom that would have been gained if the opponent could test out his counter perfectly.

This isn't an asian>european thread, but to stop the perpetuation of the asian has no creativity myth.

As far as I see it, asian gamers will continue to evolve and get better than their western counterparts, because they have a better range of mechanically better players to play with. In the west, the only person with near perfect mechanics is Idra, and his playing in korea.

Creativity and innovations are worthless unless you can apply them properly. Without perfect mechanics to test out strategies, strategies formulated by people have no real value, because a plan is only as good as the application of it.

Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-18 05:17:15
May 18 2010 05:15 GMT
#2
My understanding is that people thought Asia would dominate SC2 because they have so much more experience and history with SC1, not that Europe would dominate because of creativity.

Also, I'd just like to point out that Koreans all being gamers is a huge myth. Progamers are huuuge outliers, and should definitely be considered extremists.

EDIT: Oh, and if I'm reading this right, Boxer disproves that Asians have 0 creativity
GodIsNotHere
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada395 Posts
May 18 2010 05:17 GMT
#3
Wait I'm a bit confused people really thought European players were better then Asian players? Maybe I'm just crazy but I think most people would disagree with that.
In War: Resolution. In Defeat: Defiance. In Victory: Magnanimity. In Peace: Goodwill.
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2929 Posts
May 18 2010 05:18 GMT
#4
Yeah being more creative doesn't instantly make you the better player.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
Notorious-B.I.G
Profile Joined February 2010
77 Posts
May 18 2010 05:19 GMT
#5
it has nothing to do with what you look like or where you from it has to do with the effort your willing to give.
Fr33t
Profile Joined June 2008
United States1128 Posts
May 18 2010 05:21 GMT
#6
Wow, great second post
"Wow you could literally transport Lomo's face to a girl and the result would be pretty deceptive."
weeeee
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia71 Posts
May 18 2010 05:21 GMT
#7
Yeah that myth that asians can't be creative rts players died when boxer came on to the scene ages ago...
travolta
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-18 05:23:49
May 18 2010 05:23 GMT
#8
Lmao. This has nothing to do with racism. Koreans/Chinese are good at starcraft because a) their user base is HUGE b) their top players train all day long and practice with "lesser" players, passing on their skills.

Don't talk a load of horse shit that you have no idea about. Chinese and Koreans will be good at Starcraft 2. Not because of squinty eyes. Because their best players will practice harder and longer than those in America/Europe (unless the west gets training houses). End. Of. Story.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#48
RotterdaM501
IndyStarCraft 169
BRAT_OK 75
SteadfastSC31
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 496
mouzHeroMarine 378
IndyStarCraft 154
TKL 145
ProTech141
BRAT_OK 75
goblin 33
SteadfastSC 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5857
Mini 940
Soulkey 882
EffOrt 736
ggaemo 611
BeSt 574
Larva 506
Stork 422
Soma 391
Rush 198
[ Show more ]
actioN 198
Dewaltoss 167
hero 130
Killer 124
Snow 77
Sharp 75
Hyun 71
Hm[arnc] 67
sSak 46
Pusan 46
Movie 34
910 33
Backho 27
yabsab 21
Terrorterran 16
JulyZerg 15
Shine 12
zelot 8
ivOry 3
eros_byul 1
Dota 2
Gorgc7854
qojqva1971
BananaSlamJamma155
Counter-Strike
fl0m1410
byalli780
ceh9360
adren_tv59
kRYSTAL_16
Other Games
Grubby2048
FrodaN1032
hiko734
B2W.Neo640
Beastyqt545
ArmadaUGS182
Hui .178
Sick95
KnowMe53
Trikslyr52
MindelVK13
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream13485
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream4008
Other Games
BasetradeTV990
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 79
• Reevou 5
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV453
League of Legends
• Jankos3799
• Nemesis2065
• TFBlade1654
Other Games
• Shiphtur165
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
9h 21m
GSL
15h 21m
Afreeca Starleague
17h 21m
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
18h 21m
RSL Revival
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
[ Show More ]
Escore
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Universe Titan Cup
4 days
Rogue vs Percival
Ladder Legends
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
BSL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
Ladder Legends
5 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W3
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.