i played sc1 for a long time C+/C level on iccup as zerg and i thought to myself i had 1 real complaint about sc1 as far as imbalance would go it would have to be pisonic storm. i hate the fact that they brought this back but in sc1 at the least you could get mutas to snipe the templar. i'm wondering what people are doing vs a protoss that expands with immortals/sentry/zlot and basically masses up templar with his army.

i really really wish they would have just gotten rid of this ability all together. i know storm dodging is something thats viable and i've won a good deal of the games against this build but i feel like i lost to every person that actually knew what they were doing.

how does it make any sense to anyone that 1 unit can build up enough energy for 3 storms that can potentially wipe out an entire army. if it sounds like i'm annoyed its because i am.

Chen

United States6344 Posts

March 30 2010 08:45 GMT

seriously?
post legit requests for balance change etc rather than crying to the world cause you suck too much to dodge storms. watch some streams of pro zergs playing vs toss and learn to play before you make childish complaints like this.
when other people calling for a buff to the spell, your better have a compelling argument to back up why you think its imba or needs to be removed, rather than just well i hate the spell and i lose.

The CORRECT way to go about this is to post in strategy forum asking for help on how to deal with Toss that have storm. you don't start crying like a baby saying the spell is OP and should be removed from the game.

Thamoo

Canada234 Posts

March 30 2010 08:46 GMT

I actually have the same problem as this guy (R33 platinum zerg currently). Protoss don't seem to go templar tech often, but when they do, I lose.

Mysterio

Sweden12 Posts

March 30 2010 08:50 GMT

Me and my friend tried this out, and psi-storm owns zerg so hard.
The thing is that it doesnt own roaches as bad as it owns hydras

You kindda need a mix of roach/hydra/ling and good placement. Also brood lords is kindda nice to mix in and snipe with during a fight.
And as you stated, good storm avoidance and anticipation is ofc gold ^^

mOnion

United States5657 Posts

March 30 2010 08:56 GMT

zOMG you guys imba!

ok so i heard tales from the krypt of these super secret units, they're really high tech and hard to get, you have to sacrifice a summoning card to get them, but they're called ROACHES.

OKAY check this out. they have 2 armor to start with and 145 health!! HOLY moly thats a lot. but wait, there's more! you can upgrade their speed AND how fast they regenerate health underground!

so imagine this, because micro in sc2 is dead you notice your opponent starts to mass high templar, countering your roach hydra army, SO you go heavy on the roach side and research their burrow ability w/ fast regen.

you attack, they storm, you burrown and run out of storm, you regen so fast under that storm cant tick fast enough to hurt you, unburrow, rinse and repeat

more solutions, less QQ please.

Karas

United States230 Posts

March 30 2010 08:57 GMT

My suggestion is while its fine to tech to hydra for the mid game to counter any air cheese and to start softening up those zealots lines....there is nothing wrong with moving back to roaches.

As the toss army begins to move to more temps/collossus....roaches are your best alternative as a cheap unit that can take the pain.

Thamoo

Canada234 Posts

March 30 2010 09:16 GMT

On March 30 2010 17:56 mOnion wrote:
zOMG you guys imba!

ok so i heard tales from the krypt of these super secret units, they're really high tech and hard to get, you have to sacrifice a summoning card to get them, but they're called ROACHES.

OKAY check this out. they have 2 armor to start with and 145 health!! HOLY moly thats a lot. but wait, there's more! you can upgrade their speed AND how fast they regenerate health underground!

so imagine this, because micro in sc2 is dead you notice your opponent starts to mass high templar, countering your roach hydra army, SO you go heavy on the roach side and research their burrow ability w/ fast regen.

you attack, they storm, you burrown and run out of storm, you regen so fast under that storm cant tick fast enough to hurt you, unburrow, rinse and repeat

more solutions, less QQ please.

I think you forgot that every roaches on the map and any built in the future instantly dies when the first immortal spawn. I'm not talking about a high templar rush obviously, but a few mixed in with your usual zealot/stalker/sentry/immortal army.

Usually against protoss you have this sort of thing where he ether have many collosus or many immortals, and you react accordingly (roach to hydra to air ratio). Now what counters a HT + immortal + sentry + stalker army? One unit, the brood lord, and thats the most tech-heavy unit in the game.

mOnion

United States5657 Posts

March 30 2010 09:24 GMT

if you find me a toss that has 200/200 army comprised of entirely HT/immortal/sentry/stalker

i will show you a toss who has already won the game because he owns the entire map. you cant just say "but he can get immortals, therefore roaches are useless". toss doesnt have the gas to spam high templar AND immortals. if he powers one, he skimps on the other.

SO figure out what he's doing and react. rushing to hive is not a good idea.

Thamoo

Canada234 Posts

March 30 2010 09:47 GMT

Actually getting 3 HT with psyonic from a robotic deviation is less than 1000 gaz(every HT after are much cheaper tho), which is indeed alot of gaz, but by late game its really not THAT big of an investment (Same as getting 8 mutalisks, which have way less influence than the HTs and cost more minerals). Immortal cost 2,5M/1G, as zerg I only have 2 units that have better ratios than that! (zergling and roach).

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying its impossible to beat or anything, if you got better micro/macro you will come on top. But I find this SO MUCH better than a only robot army its not funny and I'm wondering why protoss don't use it more (You even get access to zealot charge while teching it, which is always great to have).

The two units complement the other so perfectly. One is heavy mineral, the other heavy gaz. They're not produced by the same building. One is the single most hardcore counter in the game to a unit and the other is AMAZING against every other unit the zerg can make (except broodlords).

Ofc to pull it off you need to play a more macro orianted toss, which would be expending when the zerg do instead of trying to timing push him on every possible occasions.

mOnion

United States5657 Posts

March 30 2010 09:51 GMT

#10

Actually getting 3 HT with psyonic from a robotic deviation is less than 1000 gaz

i dont know what you're saying. you people really need to stop using cost as your only foundation for your opinion. the ratio thing doesnt make any sense at all.

its a huge investment to go regular gateway units, PLUS high temps, PLUS imort or colossus.

Thamoo

Canada234 Posts

March 30 2010 09:55 GMT

#11

Just make a little less sentrys and you'll be fine. Don't forget that if you're going HT you're not going collosus, which saves alot of ressources by itself.

exeprime

United Kingdom643 Posts

March 30 2010 10:30 GMT

#12

On March 30 2010 18:55 Thamoo wrote:
Just make a little less sentrys and you'll be fine. Don't forget that if you're going HT you're not going collosus, which saves alot of ressources by itself.

People also seem to forget the time needed to get high templars. You *need* to open robo to get the all-important immortals, then you need twilight council, templar archives, storm research, time for the templars to get some energy and / or energy upgrades. Those all require a looooot of resources, which will produce little results for quite a while. Sure, once you get a bunch of HTs they can be quite strong, but so can broodlords or almost any high-tech unit.

StorrZerg

United States13919 Posts

March 30 2010 10:34 GMT

#13

exactly the toss should be qq'ing because of how crazy hiv tech roaches are,if your at hive and don't have them something is wrong

Talic_Zealot

688 Posts

March 30 2010 10:43 GMT

#14

I almost vomited reading all this.. Seriously stop whining all of you.

Tinithor

United States1552 Posts

March 30 2010 11:04 GMT

#15

Psy storm is a bitch to deal with for both terran AND zerg. You can still use mutas to snipe templar though because if they wanna have any templar they won't be able to afford many sentry or stalker.

Going muta at all REALLY delays any sort of templar tech giving you plenty of time to expand and what not, get a BIG ball of hydra/roach/speedling/bling/whatever you want, and then with a bit of storm dodging you just roll over him.

Atleast from my experience. Alot of this relies on you fast expanding and being up 1 base from the toss for a while (alot like BW really) of course.