• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:52
CEST 03:52
KST 10:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War705.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
ESL Pro Tour for SC2 discontinued [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign Mineral Boosting (2 workers/patch)
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A [ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11485 users

Dear Fantasy,

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Pholon
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Netherlands6142 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-12 13:25:37
December 12 2009 12:28 GMT
#1
[image loading]


Let me at once make it clear this isn't fanmail. I've never been much of a fan of you. It's hard to point out exactly why this is - I've just never felt any kind of fondness towards you. Not that I don't respect your play. I do, occasionally, allow myself to be amazed by your more ingenious works. Yet it is not out of admiration that I felt compelled to write you.

It's hard to pinpoint when exactly you entered my StarCraft world. The Incruit OSL would be a good place to start I guess. Your Mech build vs GGPlay was, I imagine, quirky at the time, but later became known as the
[image loading]
"Fantasy Build"
. And not only did you get a build named after yourself, it issued in a period of
[image loading]
Mech-based
play in TvZ. Pretty impressive feats, I will admit, and I haven't even mentioned your
[image loading]
two Silvers
yet.

As, like I mentioned, I'm not a fan, I never really bothered to "define" you. It was FakeSteve who did this for me, saying: "Fantasy is better because he's smarter". Like any Steve-fearing StarCraft fan I accepted his word as the law (as becomes of a good TL-netizen) and, although more than once I interpreted your work as Boxer rubbing off on you, this is how I mentally stored you: A smart StarCraft player.

It is therefore that I write this. Your recent performances in TvZ have been puzzling me. At first, I wrote it off as a certain stubbornness. We know you're a player with a plan and having to divert from this mustn't be easy. Although StarCraft greatly involves adaptation, I guess we'll grant you this one flaw. However, in more recent games you were being downright dumb. But I'm getting ahead of myself...

Let me take you back to the
[image loading]
Bacchus OSL
Semis versus Jaedong. Jaedong is a pretty good player you know. He also knows (as everyone does) that you love the Mech. Jaedong decides that, with you relying on so little units to defend, early agression is the counter of choice. He shows you so on Holy World with a 4 Pool that you somehow end up not defending. This brings me to the first game I want to point out: the next game in that series on Return of the King.


(T)fantasy < Return of the King > (Z)Jaedong
&#91;image loading&#93;+ Show Spoiler +


Jaedong, similar to the previous game, opens with an agressive 9 Pool, whereas you decide to wall in like this:

[image loading]


The wall was most probably one part of a grander design that no doubt would have worked and stomped Jaedong in 3/4ths of all cases. In your case, however, you spawned top right, in which case your Marines spawn on the outside of your wall, only to be torn apart by Zerglings.

A bit of position-related stubborness? It probably would have been fine versus 12 Hatch, but still, taking a chance like this versus a Zerg you know can be agressive? Ah well...

Flash forward to your game vs type-b on Heartbreak Ridge.

(T)fantasy < Heartbreak Ridge> (Z)type-b
&#91;image loading&#93;+ Show Spoiler +

This game is a great example of how your builds start cutting corners. Relying on 2 Fact Vults and the backdoor entrance to do damage is a pretty big risk to take. Type-b smells it coming from miles ahead and some simple sim-city-ing nullifies the Vulture damage and Mutas quickly rort out the Vultures. All goes downhill from here. You try to get an expansion up but superior Muta numbers take down your Golis, deny your expansion and you take 5 more minutes trying to find that second g button.

Your game against Hoejja was glorious. We all know how well you played and I mean it when I say I couldn't have done a better job myself.

After this though your games have been bad and worse.

(T)fantasy < Tornado > (Z)Calm
&#91;image loading&#93; + Show Spoiler +


It's not completely fair to start with this game. StarCraft is a game that can hinge on tiny moments. One mistake can cost you very dearly indeed and that's what happened to you. Calm, of course, is the kind of player to attempt a backstab rather than macro-battle it out in the middle or outplay you with a weird strat. This is a concept it seems you fail to grasp.

(T)fantasy < Moon Glaive > (Z)type-b
&#91;image loading&#93;+ Show Spoiler +


Type-b isn't the kind of player to cut zerglings to get those Mutas out just a bit faster. Nah, he'll just make 12 more lings. When you then, after a failed bunker rush, move out with 7 rines, 1 bat and 2 medics the following happens:

[image loading]


With that army gone, Mutas start picking away at your base, another group of Zerglings comes in to, again, rape your army and Type-b eventually forces your Nat to lift off. Needless to say you end up on your backfoot and, although some Wraith shenaniganry turns this into a rather interesting game, you'd pretty much lost it from there on out.

Your next game is versus Shine. Dunno if you've heard about that kid but he's pretty agressive. Stork (as well as some random cheerful) even bestowed on him the title of The Typhoon - and justly so I might add. My predictions for the match were: Fantasy will cut it close on Marines and Shine will just make some extra Zerglings and win. Proof:

Right before the match started Pholon wrote:
Fantasy will cut it close on Marines and Shine will just make some extra Zerglings and win.


(T)fantasy < Fighting Spirit > (Z)Shine
&#91;image loading&#93;+ Show Spoiler +


Oh how I love to be right. When his first Mutas pop out you rely on four Marines, a Wraith
and some poorly placed Turrets to defend. To what gain? Getting that super duper fast Vessel? Shine isn't the kind of player who cares. He'll just
&#91;image loading&#93;
2 Hatch Muta
, make more Mutas and win. Irradiate wasn't even researched in time.

At this point I'm getting worried. You're better than both these players but you're losing. Stop cutting corners that don't need to cutting! What's your next game? Versus Killer? Well THAT you can win for sure.

(T)fantasy < Outsider SE > (Z)Killer
&#91;image loading&#93;+ Show Spoiler [VOD] +


+ Show Spoiler +
FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


Let's stop for a second here and take a look at that wall.

[image loading]


No seriously, look at this wall.

[image loading]


That's two minutes later with still only two Marines defending a wall that isn't Ling-tight. And you know that it isn't. And Killer knows it isn't. And he even knows your Marine count. And you know he knows your Marine count.

I know Terrans are good at defending and all that, but did you expect him to not try and break it? The guy isn't called Killer because he likes to sit around. Why would you do this build against him? In a 100 Liquibets I wouldn't vote him over you once. Go 1 Rax Expand and you will win, I guarantee you (and you can save your super kick-ass build for some other time). I can't begin to fathom why you did this.

I suspect you hoped on playing the Dong that day, preparing this build just for him. Although I'd love to see your newest Terran build or unit combo or whatever rip apart a Jaedong or an Effort, don't cut corners against players called The Typhoon or players who are worse than you simply because they would over-invest in those extra Lings or Mutas. Why would you let their flaw become your Achilles heel? I'm sure your builds did very well during training but that's because you practise against Hyuk who is fucking bad.

So yeah, please get your shit together Fantasy.


Love,

Pholon
Moderator@TLPholon // "I need a third hand to facepalm right now"
Skeggaba
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1556 Posts
December 12 2009 12:31 GMT
#2
Awesome writeup!
Bisu[about JD]=I was scared (laughs). The force emanating from his facial expression was so manly that I was even a little jealous.
unionbank
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia666 Posts
December 12 2009 12:39 GMT
#3
fantasy created a build so fancy he couldn't master it and then fantasy got stuck between fantasy and reality because his fancy builds were too fancy for his own good and now he lost his fancyness

sometimes less is more sophisticated, back2basics fantasy thats whats really stands out and fancy

i fancy that
김정우.... 이겼다!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CaptainPlatypus
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States852 Posts
December 12 2009 12:40 GMT
#4
Five stars! The Killer match in particular made me laugh my ass off. A bit when it happened, and a whole ton when I read this.
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
December 12 2009 12:40 GMT
#5
Watch out, it's Pholon the goliath! To be perfectly honest i've never been particularly fond of Fantasy, but he really should be playing better than this indeed.
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
Scorch
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Austria3371 Posts
December 12 2009 12:41 GMT
#6
Nice writeup there.

Why do players often skimp on units to gain that last little macro or tech edge? When you think you are the better player, you play it safe. It's just like Flash, who used to lose all the time because he went 14CC.
Heimatloser
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany1494 Posts
December 12 2009 12:43 GMT
#7
enjoyed the read
All what KT currently needs is a Zerg and a second Terran
Lovin
Profile Joined May 2009
Denmark812 Posts
December 12 2009 12:44 GMT
#8
Seriously I laughed my ass off at the + Show Spoiler +
FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
AKA SuddenSalad
Lyriene *
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States346 Posts
December 12 2009 12:53 GMT
#9
Great read :D. I wish Fantasy would play more like himself, as you said.
He is indeed fun to watch because of his style, but he's been wayyyyy too reckless with cutting off units lately to the point where he'd lose to any decent aggressive players.
Translatorlolol
Oxygen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Canada3581 Posts
December 12 2009 12:57 GMT
#10
I always thought Fantasy looked like a retard. I don't mean this offensively, he just looks like he's about to start drooling at any moment ...

Fantastic, fantastic writeup. A+, featured thread :o
Dont drink and derive. TSL: Made with Balls.
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4758 Posts
December 12 2009 13:01 GMT
#11
Great writeup. And I believe you are totally right. After game 1 in the semi-finals against JD, I was convinced for like 30 minutes that Fantasy was the best player on earth (I also wrote that in the LR-Thread). He crushed JD so hard on HBR, and one week before he went 3-0 in the SPL-Grandfinals.

Since that game he has played an impressive number of dumb games. On top of his awful decision making lately, his unit-control is mediocore (of course compared to other progamers). The game on HBR against Effort yesterday was just so bad. Losing tons of marines under swarm without retreating.

He has a lot of stuff to work on to rise to the top again.
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
Djin)ftw(
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Germany3357 Posts
December 12 2009 13:06 GMT
#12
killer is a killer, no doubt about it
"jk CLG best mindgames using the baron to counterthrow" - boesthius
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
December 12 2009 13:09 GMT
#13
Great writeup, yes Fantasy has been playing like trash lately and especially vs. Zerg (which is the only matchup he can seem to get in PL ).

T1 even benched him this week in Proleague!!
✌
Malinor
Profile Joined November 2008
Germany4758 Posts
December 12 2009 13:12 GMT
#14
@Pholon: JD went 4pool on Holy World, not 5pool. Maybe you want to correct that
"Withstand. Suffer. Live as you must now live. There will, one day, be answer to this." ||| "A life, Jimmy, you know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come."
Womwomwom
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
5930 Posts
December 12 2009 13:15 GMT
#15
I never thought much of Fantasy's TvZ, especially his bio control. While these mistakes are not like him, they don't surprise me that much.

Strangely enough, I feel he plays his best TvZ against Jaedong. Its like he turns into a different player if Jaedong is in the same room as him.
nayumi
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia6499 Posts
December 12 2009 13:51 GMT
#16
I really really really do hope fantasy can get his shits together. Because at the moment, other than Flash there isn't any decent Terran around to cheer for ...
Sugoi monogatari onii-chan!
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66365 Posts
December 12 2009 14:16 GMT
#17
These are the same thoughts that go through my mind whenever Fantasy plays like this. T_T

Hopefully he'll learn to be a bit more flexible and.. less thrifty.
POGGERS
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
December 12 2009 14:18 GMT
#18
On December 12 2009 21:57 Oxygen wrote:
I always thought Fantasy looked like a retard. I don't mean this offensively, he just looks like he's about to start drooling at any moment ...

Fantastic, fantastic writeup. A+, featured thread :o



Same here. I have a hard time looking at him when the camera turns his way.
We decide our own destiny
NFL2368
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States112 Posts
December 12 2009 14:19 GMT
#19
I dont' really blame fantasy for doing his build on ROTK against JD

If you're a poker player, you'll understand that odds are everything and Fantasy made the correct choice.
Xxio
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada5565 Posts
December 12 2009 14:22 GMT
#20
uhhh
Hyuk isn't bad...or do you think JD sucks too?
KTY
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
The QMC Showmatch 1
CranKy Ducklings48
OSC
08:00
Masters Cup #151: Group A
davetesta37
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 9047
Rain 1944
GuemChi 1192
Artosis 723
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm218
League of Legends
Doublelift5814
Counter-Strike
minikerr25
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe137
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1897
JimRising 594
C9.Mang0511
Livibee377
Maynarde161
ArmadaUGS19
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick934
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 148
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP57
• Letter143
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush562
Upcoming Events
OSC
10h 8m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 9h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 22h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Online Event
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.