|
On December 13 2009 02:13 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 01:49 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 13 2009 01:21 Misrah wrote:
Dear Pholon,
Your article kicks ass and i loved reading it.
Regards,
Ben
__________________________________________________________
Dear Fantasy,
Sorry but i never will respect you, because boxer and oov made you what you are. You have a terrible mentality, and losing that huge set to jaedong when you are up 2-0 is just pathetic. That was the point in your career that i made a point to dislike you and your play. The only way you have even been passingly good is with shitty builds, that thankfully everyone has figured out by now. I hope that you go into a slump and never return. Leave the terran race in the hands of the masters. Not just a copy cat kid.
Regards,
Ben Uhh...harsh. Losing to Jaedong is absolutely nothing to indicate you suck, even when up 2 - 0. You forget jaedongs an absolute beast. Also take into consideration that it was his first time getting far in any major event, and he 2-0 ed Bisu the previous set... Also its a little far to say hes only passingly good with shitty builds. He plays extremely good, fairly standard TvP and has a 60 something % winrate in the matchup. You also say you hate him cause he was coached by Boxer and Oov? So if he was coached by some unknown guy you wouldnt call him a copycat? Btw wasn't boxer the master of unorthodox tvz? I don't respect him because everything he is, is the result of boxer and oov. He did nothing on his own, and never will. With out the hlep of two of the greats, fantasy would be nothing. fantasy still is nothing, because each time he is playing in a semi important set, after each game he runs right back to boxer and oov to get advice and help. He is a mindless copycat, that only looks to oov and boxer for ideas. He brings nothing to the table. IMO
Generally your coaches teach you, yes
|
Dear Fantasy,
You suck
The end
|
On December 13 2009 02:18 atm0sphere33 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 02:13 Misrah wrote:On December 13 2009 01:49 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 13 2009 01:21 Misrah wrote:
Dear Pholon,
Your article kicks ass and i loved reading it.
Regards,
Ben
__________________________________________________________
Dear Fantasy,
Sorry but i never will respect you, because boxer and oov made you what you are. You have a terrible mentality, and losing that huge set to jaedong when you are up 2-0 is just pathetic. That was the point in your career that i made a point to dislike you and your play. The only way you have even been passingly good is with shitty builds, that thankfully everyone has figured out by now. I hope that you go into a slump and never return. Leave the terran race in the hands of the masters. Not just a copy cat kid.
Regards,
Ben Uhh...harsh. Losing to Jaedong is absolutely nothing to indicate you suck, even when up 2 - 0. You forget jaedongs an absolute beast. Also take into consideration that it was his first time getting far in any major event, and he 2-0 ed Bisu the previous set... Also its a little far to say hes only passingly good with shitty builds. He plays extremely good, fairly standard TvP and has a 60 something % winrate in the matchup. You also say you hate him cause he was coached by Boxer and Oov? So if he was coached by some unknown guy you wouldnt call him a copycat? Btw wasn't boxer the master of unorthodox tvz? I don't respect him because everything he is, is the result of boxer and oov. He did nothing on his own, and never will. With out the hlep of two of the greats, fantasy would be nothing. fantasy still is nothing, because each time he is playing in a semi important set, after each game he runs right back to boxer and oov to get advice and help. He is a mindless copycat, that only looks to oov and boxer for ideas. He brings nothing to the table. IMO Generally your coaches teach you, yes
They teach you yes, the add to your play yes- however the player is supposed to bring something of their own! The player is supposed to be great, and then use the coaching to add to their own greatness. Copy pasting builds is not greatness. When a good player and a good coach work together the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. When coaching fantasy you only get out what you put in. ie. you bring all of the talent and skill, the player brings nothing. end of discussion!
|
On December 13 2009 02:25 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 02:18 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 13 2009 02:13 Misrah wrote:On December 13 2009 01:49 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 13 2009 01:21 Misrah wrote:
Dear Pholon,
Your article kicks ass and i loved reading it.
Regards,
Ben
__________________________________________________________
Dear Fantasy,
Sorry but i never will respect you, because boxer and oov made you what you are. You have a terrible mentality, and losing that huge set to jaedong when you are up 2-0 is just pathetic. That was the point in your career that i made a point to dislike you and your play. The only way you have even been passingly good is with shitty builds, that thankfully everyone has figured out by now. I hope that you go into a slump and never return. Leave the terran race in the hands of the masters. Not just a copy cat kid.
Regards,
Ben Uhh...harsh. Losing to Jaedong is absolutely nothing to indicate you suck, even when up 2 - 0. You forget jaedongs an absolute beast. Also take into consideration that it was his first time getting far in any major event, and he 2-0 ed Bisu the previous set... Also its a little far to say hes only passingly good with shitty builds. He plays extremely good, fairly standard TvP and has a 60 something % winrate in the matchup. You also say you hate him cause he was coached by Boxer and Oov? So if he was coached by some unknown guy you wouldnt call him a copycat? Btw wasn't boxer the master of unorthodox tvz? I don't respect him because everything he is, is the result of boxer and oov. He did nothing on his own, and never will. With out the hlep of two of the greats, fantasy would be nothing. fantasy still is nothing, because each time he is playing in a semi important set, after each game he runs right back to boxer and oov to get advice and help. He is a mindless copycat, that only looks to oov and boxer for ideas. He brings nothing to the table. IMO Generally your coaches teach you, yes They teach you yes, the add to your play yes- however the player is supposed to bring something of their own! The player is supposed to be great, and then use the coaching to add to their own greatness. Copy pasting builds is not greatness. When a good player and a good coach work together the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. When coaching fantasy you only get out what you put in. ie. you bring all of the talent and skill, the player brings nothing. end of discussion!
That's a retarded thing to say about any OSL finalist.
|
On December 12 2009 23:22 Xxio wrote:
uhhh
Hyuk isn't bad...or do you think JD sucks too?
Yeah! And what about Advocate? Can some one please think about the children?!
|
On December 13 2009 02:25 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 02:18 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 13 2009 02:13 Misrah wrote:On December 13 2009 01:49 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 13 2009 01:21 Misrah wrote:
Dear Pholon,
Your article kicks ass and i loved reading it.
Regards,
Ben
__________________________________________________________
Dear Fantasy,
Sorry but i never will respect you, because boxer and oov made you what you are. You have a terrible mentality, and losing that huge set to jaedong when you are up 2-0 is just pathetic. That was the point in your career that i made a point to dislike you and your play. The only way you have even been passingly good is with shitty builds, that thankfully everyone has figured out by now. I hope that you go into a slump and never return. Leave the terran race in the hands of the masters. Not just a copy cat kid.
Regards,
Ben Uhh...harsh. Losing to Jaedong is absolutely nothing to indicate you suck, even when up 2 - 0. You forget jaedongs an absolute beast. Also take into consideration that it was his first time getting far in any major event, and he 2-0 ed Bisu the previous set... Also its a little far to say hes only passingly good with shitty builds. He plays extremely good, fairly standard TvP and has a 60 something % winrate in the matchup. You also say you hate him cause he was coached by Boxer and Oov? So if he was coached by some unknown guy you wouldnt call him a copycat? Btw wasn't boxer the master of unorthodox tvz? I don't respect him because everything he is, is the result of boxer and oov. He did nothing on his own, and never will. With out the hlep of two of the greats, fantasy would be nothing. fantasy still is nothing, because each time he is playing in a semi important set, after each game he runs right back to boxer and oov to get advice and help. He is a mindless copycat, that only looks to oov and boxer for ideas. He brings nothing to the table. IMO Generally your coaches teach you, yes They teach you yes, the add to your play yes- however the player is supposed to bring something of their own! The player is supposed to be great, and then use the coaching to add to their own greatness. Copy pasting builds is not greatness. When a good player and a good coach work together the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. When coaching fantasy you only get out what you put in. ie. you bring all of the talent and skill, the player brings nothing. end of discussion!
Thats why Midas/Canata reached 2 finals each right?
As much as I hate Fantasy and hate him being a Oov-Boxer copycat, not everyone can do what Fantasy does, his TvP was on a world of its own last season with really smart creative play, his TvZ is a Boxer/Oov gimmick, but tell me they can execute it that well? Just enjoy what Fantasy does, he is the 2nd most entertaining terran. + If you are a fan of Boxer/Oov aka a fan of SC just appreciate Fantasy, why? Because he is the reincarnation of the mind/soul of Boxer/Oov into modern BW, and even if his fame was not built completely by his own hands, appreciate his legacy and what he means atleast. Oov wants his golden mouse and he is trying to achieve it through Fantasy's hands.
|
I think in a way, oov and boxer fucked up Fantasy. It seems he just doesn't ever deviate from the "script". And in the end that's why his games look so bad when people figured him out.
You see top players like Flash and Stork commonly adjust their builds based on spawn locations and scouting info. And could play at top level late into games. Fantasy never seems to do that. He's like a soldier who just carries out the plan. It's like the guy has no mind of his own, and has no confidence in his own ability to make the correct in-game decisions.
|
This was great.
I can't say I'm too surprised at fantasy's recent losses to zergs though. I've yet to be impressed by any part of his bio game, and his past TvZ wins were largely about either build order trickery or zergs handling mech badly.
|
How can a player who can't adapt be called smart?
|
On December 13 2009 02:25 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 02:18 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 13 2009 02:13 Misrah wrote:On December 13 2009 01:49 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 13 2009 01:21 Misrah wrote:
Dear Pholon,
Your article kicks ass and i loved reading it.
Regards,
Ben
__________________________________________________________
Dear Fantasy,
Sorry but i never will respect you, because boxer and oov made you what you are. You have a terrible mentality, and losing that huge set to jaedong when you are up 2-0 is just pathetic. That was the point in your career that i made a point to dislike you and your play. The only way you have even been passingly good is with shitty builds, that thankfully everyone has figured out by now. I hope that you go into a slump and never return. Leave the terran race in the hands of the masters. Not just a copy cat kid.
Regards,
Ben Uhh...harsh. Losing to Jaedong is absolutely nothing to indicate you suck, even when up 2 - 0. You forget jaedongs an absolute beast. Also take into consideration that it was his first time getting far in any major event, and he 2-0 ed Bisu the previous set... Also its a little far to say hes only passingly good with shitty builds. He plays extremely good, fairly standard TvP and has a 60 something % winrate in the matchup. You also say you hate him cause he was coached by Boxer and Oov? So if he was coached by some unknown guy you wouldnt call him a copycat? Btw wasn't boxer the master of unorthodox tvz? I don't respect him because everything he is, is the result of boxer and oov. He did nothing on his own, and never will. With out the hlep of two of the greats, fantasy would be nothing. fantasy still is nothing, because each time he is playing in a semi important set, after each game he runs right back to boxer and oov to get advice and help. He is a mindless copycat, that only looks to oov and boxer for ideas. He brings nothing to the table. IMO Generally your coaches teach you, yes They teach you yes, the add to your play yes- however the player is supposed to bring something of their own! The player is supposed to be great, and then use the coaching to add to their own greatness. Copy pasting builds is not greatness. When a good player and a good coach work together the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. When coaching fantasy you only get out what you put in. ie. you bring all of the talent and skill, the player brings nothing. end of discussion!
Cause Fantasy totally has Oov's macro oriented style!
Seriously, the Fantasy build was created by oov and boxer, yes. Anything else he directly copies? no. Unorthodox, cheesy micro builds are his style, just like they were boxers style. therefore boxer certainly ad a hand in helping him craft his playing style, but that doesnt mean hes a direct copy of boxer. Look at his TvP and TvT. I really dont see any resemblance to boxer. its really doubtful that a guy who beats bisu , reaches the osl finals, takes jaedong to 5 games, and belongs to the top tier of players has no natural skill of his own
|
I hope Fantasy Recovers and do something epic 
|
|
|
My opinions is that Fantasy refuses to play standard because he's currently the top SKT1 terran - a position that once was held by Oov and Boxer - so he just dislikes playing like any other terran.
He looked very promising in the past which makes him kinda overrated now. Sometimes people expect him to play at Bisu-Flash-Jaedong level and that's obviously silly. He's good, but games like the one against Killer make it clear he still has a lot to learn...
|
On December 13 2009 02:13 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 01:49 atm0sphere33 wrote:On December 13 2009 01:21 Misrah wrote:
Dear Pholon,
Your article kicks ass and i loved reading it.
Regards,
Ben
__________________________________________________________
Dear Fantasy,
Sorry but i never will respect you, because boxer and oov made you what you are. You have a terrible mentality, and losing that huge set to jaedong when you are up 2-0 is just pathetic. That was the point in your career that i made a point to dislike you and your play. The only way you have even been passingly good is with shitty builds, that thankfully everyone has figured out by now. I hope that you go into a slump and never return. Leave the terran race in the hands of the masters. Not just a copy cat kid.
Regards,
Ben Uhh...harsh. Losing to Jaedong is absolutely nothing to indicate you suck, even when up 2 - 0. You forget jaedongs an absolute beast. Also take into consideration that it was his first time getting far in any major event, and he 2-0 ed Bisu the previous set... Also its a little far to say hes only passingly good with shitty builds. He plays extremely good, fairly standard TvP and has a 60 something % winrate in the matchup. You also say you hate him cause he was coached by Boxer and Oov? So if he was coached by some unknown guy you wouldnt call him a copycat? Btw wasn't boxer the master of unorthodox tvz? I don't respect him because everything he is, is the result of boxer and oov. He did nothing on his own, and never will. With out the hlep of two of the greats, fantasy would be nothing. fantasy still is nothing, because each time he is playing in a semi important set, after each game he runs right back to boxer and oov to get advice and help. He is a mindless copycat, that only looks to oov and boxer for ideas. He brings nothing to the table. IMO
I'm not a fantasy fan, but you seeing him discussing the games with his coaches makes you assume hes a mindless copy cat? you know coaches are there to help offer builds and ideas, you think bisu sat down one day and got a huge brain wave for his build against savior? no, coach park had a huge hand in it. you forget all the effort fantasy has to put forward to get the execution right and i'm sure contributes ideas to the builds. you sound like a butthurt fan boy. who did fantasy beat that you liked that caused you to have such nerd rage?
|
Do you guys remember the YEAR OR SO that Flash wasn't doing so hot? It wasn't that long ago.
Players go into slumps all the time. Every player has gone into a slump at some point, INCLUDING Jaedong.
I don't understand why bad performance in the past month or two is enough to warrant excessive negative criticism bordering on hatred. The Korean Starcraft scene is EXTREMELY competitive, and every player who's ever been on top has admitted that it is EXTREMELY competitive.
That said, it should not come as a surprise that at some point a good player will start doing really badly for some unknown reason. It's happened to Stork, Bisu, Jaedong, Flash, and Leta. And now it's happening to Fantasy.
Debate about Fantasy's level aside, I am pretty confident that he WILL rise back to his form. Whatever people consider to be HIS best, expect him to reach HIS best again at some point.
|
It wont be boxer who brings new strategies to sc...
|
|
|
And not only Fantasy, but SKT1 is doing badly during round 2 week 1, I hope this changes during 2nd week!!
|
On December 12 2009 23:23 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2009 23:19 NFL2368 wrote:
I dont' really blame fantasy for doing his build on ROTK against JD
If you're a poker player, you'll understand that odds are everything and Fantasy made the correct choice. It's the correct build choice, but wrong decision making. If he knows that he can't wall there without having some risk, he should have prepared another separate build order deviation instead of just going for the wall at that area (unless that is, he was fully prepared and ready to take the risk and suffer the consequences should it not work out to his plan).
Yeah, but the point is that Jaedong really shouldn't have gone overpool if he played according to odds. It was a balls to the wall risky play by JD and it turned out working for sheer luck alone.
|
What a great excuse to watch Fantasy vs Killer again.
Ahhh. Warms my heart.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
