ABC [MSL] Ro8 Day 2 - Page 79

....By this terrible logic, people should never 1rax FE tvz since it can die to mass speedlings, 2hat lurk allins etc. Protoss should never Forge FE since it can die to "aggressive zergs", zergs should never 3hat zvt since they can be sunk broken. (Hint: 6hat 4base +1 flyer cara zvp is just as "safe" and "standard" as any of these other builds.) There is no reason NOT to do it with current map pool as it really is the best zvp build period right now. (For example, in JD vs Grape on Circuit Breaker, just look at how long it takes for Grape to even start MINING from his third gas and then compare to JD's position.)

There are also so many different systems that can be played out from it that you can't ever say that "JD keeps doing the same build over and over again and losing." (IE just compare http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/50171_Jaedong_vs_Stats to the game that JD and Grape had on Dante's Peak) ((8hatch hydra in the midgame off 4base is way different fast hive into defiler/ultra/ling))

People like to criticize this build and call it terrible when they haven't even studied it or just have selective viewing in what they want to see. Zergs win with this build a lot more than people whining about it would like to believe. The limited understanding of build also leads people to spout untrue generalizations like "omg he lost because he's so greedy!!!!!!!!" when there were other issues in game that led to loss. (such as scourge being in wrong place to see zealots move out so scourge can't then follow and see which base zealots go to and what timing or just complete misreads of opponent build like in jd vs bisu on aztec where's JD sunk/drone/ling timing was based on Bisu opening DT first as he saw the citadel and no spinning forge at nat so there being a temp archives in main hiding behind cannons was very likely. (Note: that was like the only game that Bisu opened with no +1 speedlots and hence it really threw JD offguard as Bisu favors DT or +1 openings generally.) JD also misread the Horang2 game pretty hard as he under-produced scourge in first muta/scourge engagement but also forcing the game into a base trade which proved to be his downfall. You can't blame the "build" for that. (P.S watch how easily the zealots are taken out for those who think it dies to them because 6hat is so "greedy" and "zerg doesn't ever have enough units" to stop them) Recent MSL interview also points to JD himself having uncharacteristic mental and physical issues which have been affecting his play lately.

JD's build in game 2 was also a lot more interesting and intriguing than immediately meets the eye. By going for that particular expo as fourth, JD immediately removes one of the problems that will end up plaguing him in the lategame as split 2player maps like this always favor Protoss in the lategame as they just have to hold on until the Zerg runs out of steam and money. (see stork vs jd on mp for classic example) This also forces Grape into adapting and taking a 4th he wouldn't want. (either the island or the midexpo where JD can drive him crazy with counters and backstabs) However, he didn't know exactly where the DT was so his sunk timing at nat was just barely off. If that sunk wasn't off then Grape's attack at the third would have had to back off without doing any damage as JD had the ling count where it would have been suicide for Grape to try and attack. Meanwhile, the fourth would have been up and Grape wouldn't have found out about it till too late. The sairs would also have moved out at a later time had that attack on the third not been successful (grape smelled blood and knew game was over if he moved out then) which would have given JD enough time to pump out the muta/scourge required to deal with the sairs. (Keep in mind that Grape is still in the dark about the 4th so Grape's calculations as to what JD have would have been off.) JD didn't lose that because of "greed"

I could go on but I think I got enough frustration out and tilting from reading LR threads for the past 6 months off my chest for one day. ~_~