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- Endgame -- Town Victory! -![[image loading]](http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9918/stmgraduationhattosslar.jpg)
When Zona came back an hour later to close the classroom, he was surprised to see the class still there, with Bluelightz standing to the side with a hanging head. When the student saw his teacher return, Bluelightz walked up to him and confessed.
"I´m sorry professor, I can´t lie anymore. This is not how my poor deceased parents raised me tobehave. I will quit school and go back to my roots, of growing olives at my ancestral farm in Sicily. Sir, this is farewell. We will not meet again..."
Zona shook his head and watched the last member of the team of liars leave class, then turned to the last 5 remaining students.
"That´s it, the exercise is over. You five made it to the end and get top grades. Congratulations!" The profesor gave them a few moments to let this sink in.
"Now, I have a confession of my own to make. This exercise wasn´t about teaching you five about truth and lies, it was in fact an elaborate test to find recruits to a special program for the police. After one year of training, you will be sent out undercover to remote towns across the country, where in the event of a Mafia or Serial Killer outbreak, you will investigate other members of the Town Coucil until you are successfull finding all the threats to the community, or die trying. This is the opportunity of a lifetime!"
The students looked at eachother in horror, and immediately ran for the door, shouting for Bluelightz to wait for them.
"Wait! Come back, class! Not all recruits die horribly!" Zonas desperate words echoed in the empty classroom...
Bluelightz, the Mafia Goon turned away from the path of lies and deception.
Blazinghand, the Town Doctor, got top grades!
ey215, the Vanilla Townie, got top grades!
Tunkeg, the Vanilla Townie, got top grades!
Velinath, the Town Cop, got top grades!
layabout, the Vanilla Townie, got top grades!
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
Btw, JB-- this has bothered me for some time. Did you actually miss the day post, or was that a gambit?
EDIT: Also, BKEXE, no hard feelings. Your posting did improve towards the end there. I won't viciously go after you in the next game we have together 
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On December 15 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote:To those who didn't already know, I was playing in this game as the smurf "ElectricBlack". This was of course done with the approval of the hosts: + Show Spoiler +Original Message From Palmar: Yes, of course. ElectricBlack will by my smurf. Show nested quote +Original Message From Zona: I think it's something worth trying, and I'm glad you're looking for ways to help others raise their level of play. I've asked Forumite if he has any objections, and he tells me he doesn't, I"ll give you the go ahead. However, I will expect you to adopt a polite tone of voice, and dramatically reduce your level of aggression. Otherwise, the entire exercise could prove counterproductive. Original Message From Palmar: Hi, I would like to play in your student mafia game, using a smurf. The reason for this is I want to help elevate the level of gameplay in the newbie game as fast as I possibly can, and much more than coaching, directly involving myself in the game and leading by example will be quite important. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Being_a_good_ICThe idea of the role I would play is similar to this one, and I would obviously request to be put on the town side. If everything goes well I'd expect to be shot night 1, leaving town with at least an idea on how to approach the game. Let me know what you think about this. I would like to know how the new players in this game felt about the presence of a veteran in the game. I used this article: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Being_a_good_IC as a guideline on how to handle my play this game, I tried to be less aggressive than I usually am, without cutting off that edge that makes me successful as mafia. Unfortunately the game started on a night I was out with the wife for several hours so I only got plenty of posting in later in the day. The reason for using a smurf was because I did not want the game to become about me. With all the coaches knowing me and my play, I feel an unreasonable amount of weight would've been put into my posting. I tried to call out incorrect play wherever I could, and lead by example with the case on HassyBaby. I don't think I did a magnificent job, but I think I did alright. I would very much like feedback from the players of this game, both town and scum, on how and if we should continue introducing veteran players in newbie games to help create a more useful town atmosphere. For what it's worth, the townies of this game should really be commended for creating the most awesome scumhunting atmosphere I have ever seen in a TL mafia game. Seriously, this town was better at looking town than almost any other town I've played with. Mad props to you all. Some of you may have noticed I did finger all three mafia on day 1: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:09 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. And I think you're the last scum That's it, jaybrundage, xtf, hassy. Game solved. Next one? This is not because I'm some kinda awesome scumhunter, or because they all fucked up. What really happened this game is that the town played such a transparent, useful and good game, that simply through process of elimination I could find all the mafia. Veteran towns can learn a lot from you guys, I am thoroughly impressed with your play. When all townies look town, it's much, much easier to pick the mafia out from the rest.
Can you guys please answer these questions: Did you like having a veteran in the newbie game?Would you prefer the veteran did not smurf?Would you prefer giving both factions a veteran?
The bottom line from this game is that you guys, as complete newbies, managed to create the most healthy town discussion I have ever seen on day one. I can't overstate how impressed I am with it. Good Job.
1) In retrospect, it's a lot clearer that you were a veteran. I honestly missed it until after you got lynched. I think that it's a good idea in a game like this if the town is less directed, to actively get things moving - however, in this case, as you stated, town played pretty well day 1.
2) Smurfing's reasonable, especially if you're randomly assigned a role. A newbie game shouldn't be one with the opportunity to metagame lynch people too. It's also more interesting to find out who it actually was after the game 
3) Not in a coached game. I feel that having a veteran to help the town out in early play especially balances out the "informed minority" in what might be a more difficult (for town) game. Again, this game is quite the exception in that I felt that we actually did play pretty well.
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I'd also like to thank the coaches for the help they provided for this game. As a new player, I really appreciated having that resource.
In addition, thanks to Forumite and Zona for doing such a great job of hosting. I really liked the theme of the game, and I think the moderation was quite good!
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Blazinghand
United States25559 Posts
I actually really appreciated the mods getting replacements rather than modkilling players, as well. That was good.
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On December 15 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote:
Can you guys please answer these questions:
Did you like having a veteran in the newbie game?
Would you prefer the veteran did not smurf?
Would you prefer giving both factions a veteran?
Yes, I enjoyed having the veteran in the game. Although I wonder how this game may have panned out if the medic had saved you on N1. You would have had to push your 3 scum that you singled out on the second day or risk us just hanging you for semi-wild claims.
The veteran really has to smurf, otherwise the medic will be glued on them all game, plus everyone will just keep asking the vet how to proceed.
I think giving the scum team a veteran could tip the scale a bit far into their favor. A scum veteran will obviously be alive for the whole game bar intentional scum-slips. I can only imagine the havoc that might ensue if you dumped say, WBG in as the scum vet. A scum vet also has more influence over what his teammates are doing compared to what a town vet would.
As an aside, I actually burst out laughing when i read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12605867
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You think that's funny? I'll show you funny:
On December 05 2011 21:17 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:59 xsksc wrote:On December 05 2011 20:54 ElectricBlack wrote:
Yes.
Pressure is stupid. Either you're killing people or not. There should never exist no such thing as a pressure vote. But clearly we don't agree on that. I need to re-think my stance on you.
I am not willing to commit to a lynch candidate at this moment, I will however within a few hours explain and elaborate on my statement about hassybaby. Please read through past mafia games or read a guide or something... I don't know what to say lol. Pressuring someone is one of the best ways to hunt scum with. While I don't think arguing methodology is productive. I would like you to direct me to an example of a great town-sided player on this site applying a "pressurevote". Maybe I can then read up on the game in question and understand why you favor this tactic. Also, if you could point me in the direction of a guide that explains the benefits of pressuring with votes backed by flimsy reasoning, I'd be thankful. However, I agree with Adam, we're not getting anywhere with this, I will respond to any questions you have, but I need to re-read our interactions and your general gameplay with a cooler head to decide if I think you're scum.
On December 05 2011 21:28 xsksc wrote:
Just look at ANY recent game, there's always pressure in mafia lol. Palmar is a good example, he's a strong town player and he pressures people all the time, even if he doesn't have a solid read on them. Just read some of his town games.
I don't really have anything else to say on the matter, if you still disagree with me pressuring people then that's cool, you're entitled to your own opinion I guess. I will continue to use whatever methods I believe are effective at scum-hunting.
How the fuck do I argue with him using myself as an example against myself?
I laughed so hard when I saw that.
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Well hes got you there!
Haha that's great.
I actually sat there for almost a half an hour, watching you and xsksc go back and forward, weighing up.. "Well, these two sure are going at it.... its definitely drawing attention away from the town wanting to lynch me... but I had a town read on both of them... save myself... help the town.... ah fuck it, I'm probably tomorrows lynch anyway" *post*
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BH got us(the mafia) sure you were cop lmao >.< you we're too good lmao also, i seriously think mafia need more KP or somethin this game >_<
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also the last post was actually sad >_<
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On December 15 2011 22:05 Adam4167 wrote:
Well hes got you there!
Haha that's great.
I actually sat there for almost a half an hour, watching you and xsksc go back and forward, weighing up.. "Well, these two sure are going at it.... its definitely drawing attention away from the town wanting to lynch me... but I had a town read on both of them... save myself... help the town.... ah fuck it, I'm probably tomorrows lynch anyway" *post*
Posting is always the correct decision, you see, I got a town read on you BECAUSE you decided to step in, post, help out, etc.
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Anyway, i'll explain why I wasnt that active its because
first, First Game
Second, I am mafia so I was scared to post anything lol xD
but next game I think i know how to act and play as mafia(if i am one)
so, thanks all and
Town MVP = BH
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On December 15 2011 22:14 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 22:05 Adam4167 wrote:
Well hes got you there!
Haha that's great.
I actually sat there for almost a half an hour, watching you and xsksc go back and forward, weighing up.. "Well, these two sure are going at it.... its definitely drawing attention away from the town wanting to lynch me... but I had a town read on both of them... save myself... help the town.... ah fuck it, I'm probably tomorrows lynch anyway" *post*
Posting is always the correct decision, you see, I got a town read on you BECAUSE you decided to step in, post, help out, etc.
Yes. I'm aware now that i accidentally lucked into the best course of action. But at the time, being the first day of my first game, I had horrible visions of stepping between two fighting dogs and being eaten alive.
Everyone else keen for the next game? I think Ver was hosting one right after the shitstorm that is TL48 is over (jeez, go read that if you have half a day). Hopefully Ver's game is new player friendly, otherwise I'm sure there's another game right around the corner.
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[QUOTE]On December 15 2011 21:22 Velinath wrote:
3) Not in a coached game. I feel that having a veteran to help the town out in early play especially balances out the "informed minority" in what might be a more difficult (for town) game. /QUOTE]
And so the veteran becomes immune to lynch, thus for the game to be balanced he has to dumb down his play and thus the very point of having a veteran to serve as an example is lost.
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On December 15 2011 21:29 Blazinghand wrote:
I actually really appreciated the mods getting replacements rather than modkilling players, as well. That was good.
Yeah, some modkills could have ruined the game (although we were unlucky because town got layabout who posted some great analysis - Palmar's case on Hassy was the only bit that was any better - and mafia got Bluelightz who didn't do much but lurk)
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On December 15 2011 19:20 Palmar wrote:To those who didn't already know, I was playing in this game as the smurf "ElectricBlack". This was of course done with the approval of the hosts: + Show Spoiler +Original Message From Palmar: Yes, of course. ElectricBlack will by my smurf. Show nested quote +Original Message From Zona: I think it's something worth trying, and I'm glad you're looking for ways to help others raise their level of play. I've asked Forumite if he has any objections, and he tells me he doesn't, I"ll give you the go ahead. However, I will expect you to adopt a polite tone of voice, and dramatically reduce your level of aggression. Otherwise, the entire exercise could prove counterproductive. Original Message From Palmar: Hi, I would like to play in your student mafia game, using a smurf. The reason for this is I want to help elevate the level of gameplay in the newbie game as fast as I possibly can, and much more than coaching, directly involving myself in the game and leading by example will be quite important. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Being_a_good_ICThe idea of the role I would play is similar to this one, and I would obviously request to be put on the town side. If everything goes well I'd expect to be shot night 1, leaving town with at least an idea on how to approach the game. Let me know what you think about this. I would like to know how the new players in this game felt about the presence of a veteran in the game. I used this article: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Being_a_good_IC as a guideline on how to handle my play this game, I tried to be less aggressive than I usually am, without cutting off that edge that makes me successful as mafia. Unfortunately the game started on a night I was out with the wife for several hours so I only got plenty of posting in later in the day. The reason for using a smurf was because I did not want the game to become about me. With all the coaches knowing me and my play, I feel an unreasonable amount of weight would've been put into my posting. I tried to call out incorrect play wherever I could, and lead by example with the case on HassyBaby. I don't think I did a magnificent job, but I think I did alright. I would very much like feedback from the players of this game, both town and scum, on how and if we should continue introducing veteran players in newbie games to help create a more useful town atmosphere. For what it's worth, the townies of this game should really be commended for creating the most awesome scumhunting atmosphere I have ever seen in a TL mafia game. Seriously, this town was better at looking town than almost any other town I've played with. Mad props to you all. Some of you may have noticed I did finger all three mafia on day 1: Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 10:09 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 06 2011 10:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Atm i wouldnt vote hassybaby for the same reason i didn't vote Bbyte. Hassybaby has not been able to defend himself. And now that Bbyte is hear hes came to late to defend himself. I hope hes mafia but i dont have a good feeling about this. And I think you're the last scum That's it, jaybrundage, xtf, hassy. Game solved. Next one? This is not because I'm some kinda awesome scumhunter, or because they all fucked up. What really happened this game is that the town played such a transparent, useful and good game, that simply through process of elimination I could find all the mafia. Veteran towns can learn a lot from you guys, I am thoroughly impressed with your play. When all townies look town, it's much, much easier to pick the mafia out from the rest.
Can you guys please answer these questions: Did you like having a veteran in the newbie game?Would you prefer the veteran did not smurf?Would you prefer giving both factions a veteran?
The bottom line from this game is that you guys, as complete newbies, managed to create the most healthy town discussion I have ever seen on day one. I can't overstate how impressed I am with it. Good Job.
It seems like having a veteran in the game is a good idea.
You were able to find the scum team really easily this game so it seems kind of imbalanced without having a veteran on the scum team as well.
If you weren't smurfing the game would have been over in 3 days.
Everybody would have blindly followed you, you would have been healed and the game would be over.
Plus if you want 2 veterans on either side you would instantly know that the other veteran was scum, so better off with smurf accounts.
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On December 15 2011 21:55 Palmar wrote:You think that's funny? I'll show you funny: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:17 ElectricBlack wrote:On December 05 2011 20:59 xsksc wrote:On December 05 2011 20:54 ElectricBlack wrote:
Yes.
Pressure is stupid. Either you're killing people or not. There should never exist no such thing as a pressure vote. But clearly we don't agree on that. I need to re-think my stance on you.
I am not willing to commit to a lynch candidate at this moment, I will however within a few hours explain and elaborate on my statement about hassybaby. Please read through past mafia games or read a guide or something... I don't know what to say lol. Pressuring someone is one of the best ways to hunt scum with. While I don't think arguing methodology is productive. I would like you to direct me to an example of a great town-sided player on this site applying a "pressurevote". Maybe I can then read up on the game in question and understand why you favor this tactic. Also, if you could point me in the direction of a guide that explains the benefits of pressuring with votes backed by flimsy reasoning, I'd be thankful. However, I agree with Adam, we're not getting anywhere with this, I will respond to any questions you have, but I need to re-read our interactions and your general gameplay with a cooler head to decide if I think you're scum. Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 21:28 xsksc wrote:
Just look at ANY recent game, there's always pressure in mafia lol. Palmar is a good example, he's a strong town player and he pressures people all the time, even if he doesn't have a solid read on them. Just read some of his town games.
I don't really have anything else to say on the matter, if you still disagree with me pressuring people then that's cool, you're entitled to your own opinion I guess. I will continue to use whatever methods I believe are effective at scum-hunting. How the fuck do I argue with him using myself as an example against myself? I laughed so hard when I saw that.
Take it as a compliment!
Sorry for getting replaced so early town, I was in bed with a flu and couldn't really play, so I asked Zona to sub me out. GG, Well played!
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Just so we're clear, I do pressure people, but I don't pressure vote them. It's two completely different things. Pressure votes are completely and utterly useless.
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I was reading through the mafia QT and @Jay now that we know that BH was not a cop you could have gotten out of that lynch. He asked you to give him a case better than his on you and he would let you go, you probably should have made a case on ey215, making a case on veli/BH wasn't going to save you.
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On December 15 2011 23:47 Palmar wrote:
Just so we're clear, I do pressure people, but I don't pressure vote them. It's two completely different things. Pressure votes are completely and utterly useless.
Yeah, I got that. I was defending my actual pressure on you when I referenced yourself, the vote didn't mean a lot.
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EPT
