EPTMad Men Mafia - Page 61
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
##Vote: Zephirdd But please - if I'm mistaken and anyone agrees with me, let me know. Between the two, I prefer to lynch talis because I feel like he's more dangerous. I just think Zeph is more likely to eat rope today. | ||
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CountDropula
United States61 Posts
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Like you know, voting for your "scumpuppet"? I mean, can't he lead the others to you with your vote on him? | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
VE, your post is funny. You think talis is most likely to be scum, but you want to lynch me? So let me get this straight, scumteam is VE+CD+Talismania+(insert 2 random players here)? Also, people arguing against wbg, learn something: LOGIC > YOU. A player has all right to get mad when he is trying to use reasoning and all you do is shit. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On August 09 2012 10:34 Zephirdd wrote: rofl this vigi is bad VE, your post is funny. You think talis is most likely to be scum, but you want to lynch me? So let me get this straight, scumteam is VE+CD+Talismania+(insert 2 random players here)? Also, people arguing against wbg, learn something: LOGIC > YOU. A player has all right to get mad when he is trying to use reasoning and all you do is shit. No, as I clearly said in my post, I'm equally sure on both of you. But hey - feel free to vote for talismania if you "agree" with me there - I'll gladly take the gift. I ain't too proud to take charity. ^^ | ||
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CountDropula
United States61 Posts
Apparently the actors refuse to wear anything but red... Ah yes, there is the matter of my vote... ##Vote: Zephirdd One step towards a win for the audience, One step towards the bus stop for you... | ||
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CountDropula
United States61 Posts
On August 09 2012 10:34 Zephirdd wrote: rofl this vigi is bad VE, your post is funny. You think talis is most likely to be scum, but you want to lynch me? So let me get this straight, scumteam is VE+CD+Talismania+(insert 2 random players here)? Also, people arguing against wbg, learn something: LOGIC > YOU. A player has all right to get mad when he is trying to use reasoning and all you do is shit. The last thing you ever used was logic, the only logic you ever had was of my design... | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On August 09 2012 10:00 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Thoughts, And Lack Thereof I'm gonna open with the important stuff. talismania, Zephirdd, Toadesstern Yes, that's right - THREE names. Not Five. Why? Because in my opinion, the last 2 scums can be found in the pool of players who haven't been posting, like, at all. There have been too many town flips of active players for me to entertain the notion that ALL of the scum are playing visibly. Therefor, at least 40% of the scum team can, by my estimation, be found in that group. Now, my reads. talismania has been very confusing to me over the course of the game. After D1 I agreed with slOosh's points on talismania - lots of questions that seemed to go nowhere, very little what I would consider actual scum hunting. However, D2 talis turned on the town with a bright and shiny case on me. Generally speaking, I automatically think "SCUM!" in cases like that, as many of you are well aware - however this time it was different. This time, talismania had valid concerns about my activity and my case against him…and considering my main contention with him was about the whole questions that go nowhere thing, I decided to assent to masoning him. That's where things changed, for me. Over the course of those conversations, I was left with the feeling that he wasn't REALLY after information at all - that he was looking for something specific…something that I'd referenced earlier in the game. All Talismania was interested in during the WHOLE of our conversations was my read on Zephirdd. Why? What about Zephirdd was so important for me to comment on? What about my Zephirdd read intrigued him so? So I tried something out… I intentionally avoided talking about Zephirdd at all. :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Here is the result of this experiment. + Show Spoiler + On August 07 2012 12:06 talismania wrote: VE you out there? waiting for a pm reply. On August 08 2012 02:38 talismania wrote: The extent of my communication with VE. Yes I wanted to more or less interrogate him about every player in the game, I think he's scum. Never really got to though. If he's innocent he shouldn't have a problem with that and should also probably want to interrogate me about a lot of things. He never responded to my zephirdd question despite posting in the thread after I had sent it, so I asked him in the thread. + Show Spoiler + Removed per request of host - for full logs in text form see this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=57#1127 On August 08 2012 03:24 talismania wrote: How is this a town attitude, toad? He writes this, but do you see it in the logs? He asked me about erandorr, I responded. I asked him about zephirdd after he brought zephirdd's name up... and nothing. If he had asked what I thought about zeph I would have gladly answered. He only showed interest in picking my brain about erandorr. The "people" I asked about? I only asked about one, and he never answered. I asked a grand total of two questions of him in PMs as they "dragged on". On August 08 2012 06:28 talismania wrote: ah sorry. I would argue that they are all around the same level of interest to be honest. Whatever happened to your thoughts on xsebt and zephirdd? You said in PMs you were going to look into them yesterday. WHO CARES?! He's barely playing and is probably scum! But if he doesn't do scummy things then I can't lynch him! talismania, in an attempt to distract town, has focused on my read of Zephirdd for almost an entire cycle. If he thinks I'm scum and Zeph is town, what could he possibly want to know what I think of Zephirdd for? Here's my theory: that he and Zephirdd are scum TOGETHER. I think he was interested in getting my read on Zephirdd in the thread to either vilify me for thinking an "obvious townie" is scum, or to solidify sentiment that he's town when I died D2 and flipped town by me stating a town-read on him. My guess is that scum roleblocked someone they killed N1 and talis claimed it in an attempt to gain town-cred. Zephirdd has spent the whole of the second cycle being pressured by CD. The result of this pressure, I think, speaks for itself - but I'll speak for it for those of you who are wondering what I'm talking about. He reacted BADLY. REALLY badly. Like, as a townie, how would you react to someone continually calling you scum based on nothing and trolling you? If your answer is anything but "ignore it and hunt scum" then you're scum. I'm sorry, but that's my opinion. Zeph's answer would apparently be "FREAK THE FUCK OUT AND RAGE IN-THREAD AND OMGUSSSSSSSSS"…if he were town. However, I think he's scum that can't handle pressure. And golly gee, he didn't vote for me, talismania's "#1 scum read". Hmmmm, I wonder what's going on here. :/ Toadesstern is on this list because he's a mason, and because I'm town the pool of possible scum masons is shrinking. Ultimately he's null, but I'm thinking scum probably have a mason and I don't think it's JH - especially after reading his logs with talismania. It's possible there ARE no scum masons and BC threw in a ton of town masons to fuck with town - but I find it really unlikely, and if that's what's going on here then BC is truly a bastard. So my lynch-order preference would be: 1. talismania/Zephirdd (I'm equally sure on both and would support either lynch equally. . . . . . . . . . . . 2. Toadesstern. I don't want to lynch Toad tomorrow, but I will if town wants to because he's a mason that's not JH or myself. Pretty much no other reason. :/ Those cases are atrocious. TALIS - Talis has consistently been following up on his reads and his 'questions that go no where'. His constant attempts to get you to respond to his questions are scummy? WTF? That's bullshit. He tunneled you when you refused to answer him and I think such a move is completely justified. I have a hard time believing you tried to set up such a shitty trap when the results are not all that damning against talis anyways. - He constantly drones on about the setup and wants character names? From the pm log between Toad and SnB: (SnB) I also think anyone who's played a game or two with talismania should know that his trying to get setup information and character name claims isn't alignment indicative, he always pushes some kind of plan like that as any alignment. (Toad) 2) Yeah I agree on Talis. There's some things I don't like about him but pushing those weird plans is not alignment indicating at all. The amount of "effort" he's putting in this game however made me reconsider a bit. He wasn't that much talkactive when we both played mafia in PYPoison. He's strange alright but he usually enjoys the "trying to understand the game" way more than "trying to figure out mafia"either way, so that's normal. Not really the most conclusive scumtell on talis you had there. ZEPH You're baseline suspicions of Zeph stem from Day 1 due to his list of lurkers, or so it seems. The main point of you thinking he's scum now is his response to CountDropula. Guy literally lurks the shit out of the game, had more posts in the voting thread than the actual thread at one point in time and then completely out of the blue tunnels into zeph like a goddamn freight train. His posts are so obnoxious I'd have either responded similarly to how zeph did, or not at all. Zeph didn't vote in line with talis - TEHY MUST BE SCAMS TOGETHURR. Meanwhile, Zeph actually sheeped your vote on Erandorr (so did I for that matter) because he felt you and bugs were producing better arguments. Does this mean the two of you **le GASP** created a bandwagon together on Erandorr to save yourself?! TOAD Obviously the weakest part of your case, but Toad is maybe kind of scum according to you because SOME of the masons have to be scum right? Well you're just as likely to be scum as any of the others at this point, including JH. None of this WIFOM 'vets must be scum' garbage for me. I'm reading town from Toad through his mason logs with snb. The same can't be said for you from your logs with bugs and talis, at least in my opinion. RAILROADING TOWN, DO WHAT I SAY, KILL SO AND SO, BLAH BLAH FREAKING BLAH There's plenty more to dissect if you want to start connection theories and confirmation bias. Your case alone however, is more than enough for me to vote you today VE. | ||
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CountDropula
United States61 Posts
Wait... No one cares | ||
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CountDropula
United States61 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On August 09 2012 10:18 wherebugsgo wrote: thank fucking god fuck along now, and I'll fuck right along with you. Second time killed by scum! Feels good man! Town, I hope you get the hero you need, because the hero you deserve is something like Grush and Zentor's retarded baby. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I cannot believe how awful wbg was this game like, seriously just absolutely awful | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I'm out for the day. Anyone thinking WBG is town needs their brain checked. Anyone thinking that Eran (town), s&b (town) and sloOsh (town) all said I'm town for the lulz and I'm actually mafia needs their brain checked. If we let WBG survive another day this game is over. I did everything I could this game and if you don't want to win this game I'm not going to invest more into this. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
That said, the NKs are fairly illuminating. Especially solstice - he was killed primarily because he's a good townie and he was correct about VE. Solstice and I were interchangeable for those purposes, but I am spared because VE is committed to getting me mislynched (a reasonable play given that he thinks he can rely on xsebt and synystyr's votes if they're town). His push on zephirdd is there because he knows there's support for it from dropula at least I guess. Who the mafia are: VE hassybaby BKE other two are somewhere in hier, glasse, dropula, synystyr I think. My bet is hier glasse at the moment. _________________ In response to VE: He set a trap by not talking about zephirdd? Ok... I'm just following up on anything and everything you say because I think you're scum. You said you were going to look at him again, therefore I wanted to know if you followed through on that as scum tend not to. I don't know zeph's alignment for sure but I do lean town. _________________ VisceraEyes is scum. (A) He makes lazy cases that are unresearched. Not just against me, but also against erandorr and against zephirdd. Read what I wrote about his case on me yesterday. (B) He REFUSED TO KEEP IN CONTACT VIA PMs WITH SOMEONE (1) AND HE THOUGHT THAT THAT PERSON WAS SCUM (2). Let me expand on that further - so you're a townie in VE's shoes. You think maybe I'm scum and that I'm connected with zephirdd. Therefore you set a trap... by refusing to talk to me about zephirdd???? Why, if I'm scum, do I keep haranguing a townie to find out what his read is on my scumbuddy??????????? Why the fuck would I care about that if I were scum? Especially because in that scenario, I'm trying to lynch the guy I'm haranguing. So why would I give a shit about how good his reads are on other people in my scum team? Why would I call attention to that? No. If you're townie, and you're a mason, and you suspect that the guy you're masoned with is scum you PRESS him. You don't set traps by NOT talking about a potential scumbuddy of your target. You re-engage. Ask questions. To hammer this point home: WHY STOP TALKING TO SOMEONE YOU THINK IS SCUM? How can that possibly help? VE isn't afraid of being manipulated, I know that. So why, after he switches back to thinking I'm scum, does he show no interest in talking anymore? (C) I just realized that VE accidentally might have just trapped himself with this zephirdd thing. To explain: he is claiming that he ignored my questions about zephirdd because he thought I was scum, and wanted to see what happened. Let's look at the first assertion he makes: All Talismania was interested in during the WHOLE of our conversations was my read on Zephirdd. + Show Spoiler + Our whole conversation was about zephirdd? Please. Firstly: Over the course of those conversations, I was left with the feeling that he wasn't REALLY after information at all - that he was looking for something specific…something that I'd referenced earlier in the game. If by this you mean "after some negligible small talk about irc and skype", the course of our conversation was this: You: what do you think about erandorr Me: I'm looking into him but think he's town for the most part. You: yeah here's why I think eran is scum. also here are my other scumreads, which I'm giving to you completely UNPROMPTED. Me: Oh, I'd like to hear more about that zephirdd guy since you mentioned him earlier in the thread as well. How the hell do you go from that to getting that the entire conversation was building up to me asking about zephirdd? It wasn't. VE brought zephirdd's name up, unprompted. Not me. It gets better though. My follow-up question about zephirdd was sent on August 7, 8:29. His reply about giving him some time to get home came August 7, 12:47. Then my follow up question since he didn't say anything in that reply about zeph, then he goes cold in PMs. Despite this, he makes the following post in the thread: On August 08 2012 01:50 VisceraEyes wrote: TBH I'm not sure - at first I thought he was town, but as the PMs dragged on it felt more like an inquisition - like his mind was made up already and that he was just like...gathering ammo or something. He never shared HIS thoughts on the people he asked about, simply asked me about them and then freaked out in-thread when I was a little late with response. I'm leaning town - just misguided, really really WRONG town. He's also posted that he's done in PMs. So he thinks I'm wrong town - yet when I ask him to just follow up on his read about zephirdd (after this post) he does nothing as a trap? How does that make sense? Like imagine you're a townie, and you think a wrong townie is on your case, possibly putting you in danger of being lynched. You ignore their questions? By the way, AFTER all those quotes of me asking about zephirdd he makes the following post addressed to me: On August 08 2012 08:06 VisceraEyes wrote: talis I'M NOT SCUM! Nothing is going to be clear because I'm not going to flip red! I'm going to flip Lane Pryce, Town Mason. Flip ACTUAL scum like Erand with me! Or clear out some of the background lurker noise, frankly I don't give a shit - but I'M town and I'M not going to flip red! Indicating that, at the very least, he still leans town on me. So during that entire period of ignoring my follow-up question to something he brought up he did not actually have a scumread on me. This "trap" was made up after the fact. It wasn't until after the lynch that he PMs me, saying that I "fooled" him and he was onto me and all that. (D) VE has very few doubts. In general, townies are unsure about their scumreads. Read through all of VE's scumreads. He's never uncertain. I don't know his meta on this point but at the very least I consider this a weak scumtell. ##Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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I'll let you know what I find.
