EPTLiquid City Mafia - Page 59
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On October 04 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote: Not several people. Just kush. Because I thought kush was town based on his demeanor, but his voting and play was distinctly anti-town. I spent a lot of time trying to make him see that. But I should have just shut up and let him play stupidly? Okay. You did it to shady and risen also. So no not just kush. But honestly. It doesn't really matter how many people you use to hide the fact you are not contributing. On October 04 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote: Nothing I can really say about that. It's pretty true. After questioning KJ, I felt comfortable in my scum read of him. So I spent the rest of my time questioning other people and berating kush. Let's be honest here. You barely questioned him. You would look less scummy if you had actually bothered to contribute more than you did. I am not satisfied with that explanation. On October 04 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote: What you probably didn't pick up on just by reading my filter (or maybe intentionally misrepresenting?), is the timing of my posts. Go back and look at my last post on day 1. It was 9 hours before the deadline (and 32 hours before my next post). That's because I took an unplanned trip out of town and didn't have internet. My vote might have been meaningless at the end of the day, but when I left it wasn't (KJ had the majority). There was literally nothing I could have done because I didn't have internet access to keep up with the game. You didn't say anything in the thread. I can't be expected to know or assume that you are out of town if you leave the thread. lol. Even if you were part of a lynch majority I would still argue your vote was meaningless because of the token case and scum hunting behind it. On October 04 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote: ToutEstChaos justified his vote too. Why is the fact that I did it scummier than the fact that he did it? Also, the "Damnit, I'm slow" comment was because, when I first read the daypost, no one had commented on the reason Risen had died, nor voted marv yet. So I quoted Risen's death, then started trying to find the post where Risen had said to kill marv when he died. By the time I had finished, Tout had already beat me to the explanation. Basically you're saying that it would have been townier for me to first vote marv, 10 minutes after the day post, with 0 explanation. I don't buy that. It would be like the people who took flak for hopping on Matt without explanation in LVII after his Nosy Neighbor claim. That is a fair explanation. I always view people who feel they need to provide explanations for their vote in even the most obvious situations as scummier than those that drop a vote and leave. But I can understand your point and don't think this point was particularly strong or necessary to the case against you. It just struck me as odd for the afore mentioned reason. On October 04 2012 14:45 Keirathi wrote: [/quote]This is reasonable, but a question: have you read my scum game (GSL Open Mini Mafia 1) for reference? I mean, sure I'm aware that I played a reasonably "good" scum game in that, so if I wanted to play differently I could. But would I really go for the extreme opposite end of the spectrum? From "good" scum, to terrible and easily caught? Anyways, I wouldn't blame anyone for wanting to lynch me tomorrow. I lost some of my interest after having to catch up with 24+ hours of two different games. Wow. This is a horrible argument. Yep my FoS stands. Matyring + WIFOM + using meta to clear yourself. Ugh. | ||
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ToutEstChaos
France38 Posts
On October 04 2012 15:57 kushm4sta wrote: ##fos toutestchaos 1 manufactured case 2 pushing everyone to comment on your manufactured case The reasoning is located in the body of the argument. The sentence itself contains no reasoning, so how can that LINE be guilty of poor reasoning? 1) wrote good case 2) promoted town discussion 3) interesting that you exempted the line in question in your quotation. Allow me to reproduce it in full for you: On October 04 2012 11:32 ToutEstChaos wrote: This line in particular jumps out at me as poor reasoning: >fuba was more or less following marv during day 1 play, This is not what scum does to other scum. Come on, you've all played scum. This wasn't a scum fuba following scum marv. Look at Marv's previous scumgames. He wouldn't let shit like that happen. This is a scared town fuba in a big game deciding to attach his lips to the ass of the strongest, biggest, most familiar vet he could find: Marv. Huh, that's interesting. So your question: On October 04 2012 15:57 kushm4sta wrote: The sentence itself contains no reasoning, so how can that LINE be guilty of poor reasoning? Was actually already answered by the CONTEXT of the line that you cherrypicked to quote (twice I might add). What's the deal, kush? If you're gonna FoS a guy, at least do your homework. If you slack off how do you expect to contribute to the town? | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On October 04 2012 16:01 Kreb wrote: Only played with him as town. First day I think he was a bit more spazzy than usual, which I also pointed out. Since then, I'd say he fits his town meta pretty well. It could be a case of him understanding he needs to tone himself down a bit as scum though, and theres others things happening which also has made him look a bit scummy. But if I were to push him as scum, I probably wont use meta as a strong part of my argument. That said, Thrawn seemed to disagree with that in the small time he was in the thread. Well I partially used meta to catch him day one in my previous game. So I am keeping it in my mind for sure with Kush. The thing with kush is that he posts so frequently that he will slip. The other thing is that he slips as town. I think you need to look at the whole picture with kush. What happened to thrawn BTW? Oh and @ frenchCaos Why am I? and what is a Beggerman? lol. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On October 04 2012 16:15 ToutEstChaos wrote: 1) wrote good case 2) promoted town discussion 3) interesting that you exempted the line in question in your quotation. Allow me to reproduce it in full for you: Huh, that's interesting. So your question: Was actually already answered by the CONTEXT of the line that you cherrypicked to quote (twice I might add). What's the deal, kush? If you're gonna FoS a guy, at least do your homework. If you slack off how do you expect to contribute to the town? I am inclined to agree with ToutEstChaos. Scum would never sheep other scum that hard. And Fuba probably was sheeping a very good player whom he had a town read on. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 04 2012 16:01 Kreb wrote: Only played with him as town. First day I think he was a bit more spazzy than usual, which I also pointed out. Since then, I'd say he fits his town meta pretty well. It could be a case of him understanding he needs to tone himself down a bit as scum though, and theres others things happening which also has made him look a bit scummy. But if I were to push him as scum, I probably wont use meta as a strong part of my argument. That said, Thrawn seemed to disagree with that in the small time he was in the thread. Quoting myself when I think more about it. One thing that might not fit his town meta in this game is his willingness to jump votes all the time. He did it a lot in D1 and since then he's been spreading FoS'es and agreeing on cases left and right. I know him as a much more focused town player who, while still acting/posting about like he is doing now, wasnt as easily swayed in another direction. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On October 04 2012 16:06 kushm4sta wrote: i am like the townest person in this game ATM Oh look. Calling yourself town. Just like last game :/ | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 04 2012 09:04 mkfuba07 wrote: @SloOsh What do you think about my post regarding VE (linked above)? I see it as a reason to see VE as scum that doesn't simply revolve around him being incorrect. Same question goes for austinmcc and Kreb. Well theres clear scum motives to try and paint annul as dangerous mafia since it could make people more paranoid about him even though there might not be that many solid reasons to lynch him. So I think it holds some merit. However I probably wouldnt wanna lynch VE just because of that, to me its the whole package (kush posted some of the posts regarding him in one post, theres some more I'd like to add to that though) which is scummy. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
On October 04 2012 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Me? Dude, we're lynching marv today. I can assure you I'm reading. I'll post something, don't you worry. It's not about the wise-cracking. Just...trust me guy. You won't want to lynch me when it's time to actually pick someone to lynch. Im kinda of interested why you think its a good idea to wait with your supposed defense or whatever is gonna happen to make us not want to vote you. Care to share that? You letting the accusations kinda fall off peoples menories while the town (for a good readon) moves on to other scum-hunting doesnt really speak in your favor. You going trolling/spamming mode together with marv doesnt either. A town being concerned about being mislynched wouldnt wanna clog up the thread with uselss posts, would they? I'd be very disappointed in your defense is you jumping on, say, DPs case on Keirathi and went all in on that because its taken up a part of the thread and now it presents you a way out. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On October 04 2012 19:26 marvellosity wrote: hi guise! Hi Bill Murray! | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Now that's just uncalled for :< | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 04 2012 21:03 Keirathi wrote: @DP: the simplest answer is most often the right one. that you're scum? ha! No seriously, this guy is town. Maybe. | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
I'm going to back off of VE. I want to see what he contributes next. It's no secret that he was having difficulty reading annul, and that he thought annul had an alright chance of flipping scum. His townie motivation for pushing so strongly for a vigi shot on him are clear. Though I found that portion of his posting scummy earlier, his explanation is as good as any. Coming into this game I expected more from him, just because I know he's a big name around here. But I don't see "not meeting fuba's arbitrary expectations" as a reason to think he's scum. Now that he's committed to posting something strong in the future, I can wait to see what he has to say. Into the last few hours of posts: On October 04 2012 12:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Scum. I think. Anyone else wanna check my math? DP asked about this earlier, and there was no response. Is this VE claiming DP is scum, or some other interpretation I'm not understanding? Next, onto kush's response to ToutEstChaos regarding ShiaoPi: + Show Spoiler + On October 04 2012 15:03 kushm4sta wrote: OMG im a thread hero yayyyy.. I dont even know if that's sarcasm but fuck it I'm taking it seriously. The case against ShiaoPi... I hope you still have the receipt because I'm not buying! I want to say I can confirm shiaopi's meta that z-boson talks about. Quiet until the end of the game when it seems like he has a really good understanding of everything. I see him as a really valuable town asset. His activity so far has not been particularly suspect to me. I think it is a huge leap to say that his meta is to keep totally up to date on everything happening in the thread at all times. This thread is full of shit in a lot of places. Also he's playing another game ATM. Also IRL stuff. So it's very possible that he was just too busy to read the whole thread carefully at that time. About his "night-oriented mindset": dont see how you are getting this from one small post about role speculation. I am very confused about what roles there are myself and I would love for someone to explain the possibilities and point out the likelihood that someone may be lying. So 1 not useless speculation 2 that is actually just a small part of his content About his case on mkfuba: not a slam dunk but that's not really what it was meant to be. We just got a confirmed scum, so I see that case as shiaopi trying to mine our marv scum confirmation for any possible insight that can give us. Mkfuba following marv: i agree that there is some suspicion due to mkfuba for this. He follows marv real close and although he tries to give reasons for switching, they are pretty bad. Contrast this to me who also switched a lot but at least I was honest about having shitty reasons for voting someone. This is his mkfuba's reason for suspecting austin. I think it is a willful misinterpretation of "fun night." Why would a fun night mean you have something to talk about? It just means that there are a bunch of trolling and omgus etc. Maybe his cases are weaker than the ones you are used to, but if you are comparing it to cases he made in the end game, of course the early game cases are going to be weaker. @toutestchaos This quote from you explaining why scum wouldn't follow each other: I think that is more true in mini games than large games. There are a lot of scum (I think someone said 6). So if there were only 2 or 3 than sure they would try to separate, but as the number of scum grows, so does the necessity for overlap. Also I agree that scum marv would probably not advise a scumbuddy to follow him that closely. But it's not like all scum is taking orders from him in the QT. If mkfuba is scum he is probably doing his own thing for the most part, and he is rather inexperienced. I can't say that I've given ShiaoPi's meta a lot of thought, but I didn't really expect him to post all that much early game. About his "night-oriented mindset": dont see how you are getting this from one small post about role speculation. I am very confused about what roles there are myself and I would love for someone to explain the possibilities and point out the likelihood that someone may be lying. So 1 not useless speculation 2 that is actually just a small part of his content 1) even if it's fun/interesting to think about (which I believe it is), it's still pretty useless in scumhunting. We don't even know what the roles do, or what alignments they're with. We know there are people with powers, and that they understand a bit better than the rest of us what's going on. How is anyone but scum going to benefit from town discussing who did what to whom at this point in the game? 2) I agree that it's a small part of his contribution for today. Regarding my actions surrounding austin, I've been incredibly honest. "Fun night" was not my only reason for suspecting him. I've grown used to austin being a good contributor, and I assumed that "fun night" would imply a lot of action. Trolling and OMGUS may be fun for you kush, but when I heard austin say it, I felt it implied a large amount of stuff to comment on. The fact that he went mia for 24 hours after saying that was really suspicious to me. When he returned and started contributing up to (and beyond) his usual standards, I removed my vote. Simple as that. As for how I would interact with marv if we were both scum, I can't comment much. I mean, I sheep marv in almost all the games I've played with him. I completely ignored him as a suspect in DN mafia for reasons I can't explain. I sheep him heavily as town, so why wouldn't I listen to him when I know we're on the same team? DarthPunk's case on Kei seemed really good when I read it. The lack of scumhunting, combined with his response to the case, are convincing me. That's all I can really say without simply rehashing DP's case. Anyway, gotta get to class soon, so I'm posting what I have. Not sure how much I'll be available today. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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Sharrant
Canada543 Posts
On Kush Kush was defended by Marv by saying he was "on meta" for being town, but I think that's distinctly false at this point. I think he's just biding his time with somewhat spammy posts, and trying to keep his aggression down low. There's a chance he's town and Marv was trying to buy himself cred, but I don't think so. He makes me think too much of a toned down scum kush rather than a town kush trying to change up his meta. On Risk Why has no one brought up Risk? That makes me think even more than he's scum and the others just don't quite know what to do with him. His filter is a single page, he says to kill Kush (but never follows it up or votes him, doesn't even make an atttempt at a case), then votes Shady while talking about KJ without saying a word about Shady. He made a case against me that boiled down to "long first post = scum", and then dropped off the face of the earth for almost 2 days and still doesn't post content. His longest post is 90% fluff that makes him look helpful (explaining what attempting to look like you're contributing is). The problem with this is that he's done jack shit. He's put so little effort into the game I can't tell if he's a bored townie, or a mafia trying to scrape by with the bare minimum, but I'm leaning towards the latter. On Viscera His buddying up to Marv is a little suspicious, but I believe that that's just what he does every game. I was a little tempted to buddy up to Marv myself, but I realized how bad of a decision that would be. I think it's very strange that he said "kush is town to me, he'd be a good vig shot", but that's about it for now. Not immediately suspicious of him. On Mattchew and Sloosh I think at least one of these two are mafia, possibly both. They had a little go at each other, but neither followed through with it in any meaningful way. They're both fairly low content, under 2 full pages each with only a few notable posts. This is a fairly weak read, but I think it's likely. On BC In a similar spot to VE for me, in that he's not immediately suspicious. I like his posts, but I'm not willing to go far enough to say that I have a town read on him. On Keirathi I'm suspicious of him because of his early interactions with Kush (because I believe Kush to be scum), including his defense of him (and mentioning Marvs defense of him as well) makes me a little more suspicious than I otherwise would be. He does come out swinging early on, picking at several different people. With Kush though his attacks seem to me like coaching, when you add the defense in there it seals the deal for me. His last few posts about "would I suddenly become a terrible mafia" just confuse me. I don't really see a point to making them. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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