• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:01
CEST 22:01
KST 05:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202551RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams5Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 803 users

Stephano contract situation - Page 47

Forum Index > SC2 General
3152 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 45 46 47 48 49 158 Next
Lack of content, flaming (of the French or anyone) and useless posts will be punished. Please keep it from being too inflammatory and keep discussion on-topic. -semioldguy (p.103)

Update: Please read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=267506#1 and continue the discussion there.
Jtom
Profile Joined January 2011
Ireland1044 Posts
September 19 2011 20:16 GMT
#921
On September 20 2011 05:13 Zalitara wrote:
http://www.frenchlaw.com/employment_law.htm says this about hiring in France. Can't see anything about having a month to change your mind, but it seems all contracts have to be in french. Can coL have fucked up on this maybe?

Hiring

It is necessary in France to provide a written contract of employment to all staff of whatever grade or level.

In the event that there is no written agreement, then a contract of employment is nevertheless held to exist and the employee will systematically benefit from the maximum protection provided for by the law.

The contract of employment must be in French, even where both employer and employee use the same language which is not French.

There is no restriction on providing a translation or a bilingual version of the agreement to the employee, but the French version will always prevail before the Courts and vis-à-vis the French Employment Inspection Authorities.

Contracts of employment are virtually always for an indefinite term and specific agreements for short limited term employment are tightly regulated, for example it is possible to offer a limited term agreement to a person replacing another employee on maternity leave, or for instance to employees taken on for a particular seasonal sales period.

However, limited term agreements may not be renewed more than once otherwise they will be held to become indefinite term agreements.

I appreciate this link, but I don't think it can be trusted. Is there a link to an official policy on the French government's website or something?
"Daddy, how did the Protossaurs go extinct?" "A giant EMP hit the earth" - Fionn
Deadfi5h
Profile Joined June 2011
6 Posts
September 19 2011 20:16 GMT
#922
I don't really think that's all about french scene. It's Millenium Col and stephano problems not a french fact!
Pugget
Profile Joined November 2010
United States212 Posts
September 19 2011 20:16 GMT
#923
On September 20 2011 05:13 Maxtor wrote:
That is just really making a mockery of e-sports, a legally binding contract is exactly that, its not a handshake deal, stephano knew what he was signing, if the contract isnt honoured id really want to know the consequences.


This attitude seems to be common. Yet, last I checked, contracts are not slavery, and one can leave a work contract at anytime, without repercussions. The fact a contract is "legally binding" doesn't make one a slave.
Zorgaz
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden2951 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 20:17:52
September 19 2011 20:16 GMT
#924
On September 20 2011 05:14 MandoRelease wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 05:04 Koorb wrote:
BTW, Millenium's manager is saying on stream right now that he doesn't intend to send Stephano in international event more than he used to, and will focus on the french scene.


Oh please, the french scene is exactly what player should avoid. Millenium's manager really fails to see all what's wrong in that scene. A shame.


No offense to the ''French scene'' but their isn't really one.

Hell, I'll even admit theirs no ''Swedish scene'' and i think it's fair to say SC2 is bigger here.

The Swedish scene is basically international. Yes we have Dreamhack but it's for everyone, not just us swedes. And that's the way it should be

And all the Swedish pros basically fly around the world competing. Alot of them anyway.
Furthermore, I think the Collosi should be removed! (Zorgaz -Terran/AbrA-Random/Zorg-Dota2) Guineapigs <3
merz
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Sweden2760 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#925
On September 20 2011 05:13 Macpo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 05:03 meRz wrote:
On September 20 2011 05:01 Macpo wrote:
Apparently, French law allows any worker to retract from a contract within 30 days.

To give my 2 pence opinion, why couldn't someone change his mind? Every one does. and here it does not have any serious consequences. There isn't much at stake, no big deal, no money loss... just promises and business honour (i.e. nothing). Of course, Col are disappointed, but no one is dead.


How does this not have serious consequenses? Like coL states this would create a precedent that players can just come and go as they want. Do you seriously see that working well?


There is absolutely no risk whatsoever that players can just come and go as they want... 1. players can actually already come and go as they want, because if they don't want to play, no one can force them, all they can do is stop paying them; 2. it's just that they are getting paid, so they prefer not to go "as they want" and stay where they are paid. 3. I can promise you stephano will do it once, not twice, because it's a very annoying situation for him.

Now if you can't understand that someone may change his mind...

But I have remarked, there is always some kind of hysteria when someone is doing things not as expected... People start promising the entire world will collapse and then nothing happens, because this is the smallest event ever (the bigger one being Stephano beats MMA )




... Yeah and then they run into a new team 2 weeks into their contract that wants to pay the player even more, you think it'd be beneficial to the scene if said player can just leave his current team and go stay with a new team "Because they are getting paid". ?

It's not promises about the entire world going to shit, it's just a bad development and in the long run it WILL hurt esports. Why the fuck do you think KeSPA exists in S.korea, why do you think there are international sport organisations regulating this in any other sport?
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
two.watup
Profile Joined March 2011
United States371 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#926
On September 20 2011 05:12 ArnaudF wrote:
Btw it's Millenium not Millennium, god damnit!

Sorry that people assume it's spelled correctly.

Millenium is not a word.
Erectum
Profile Joined August 2010
France194 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#927
On September 20 2011 05:15 Hipsv wrote:
What this shows me is that Stephano is just a kid, he obviously didn't seriously consider the legal and non legal ramifications of his actions and as a result flopped on his decision.

I too at 18 did lots of flopping on big decisions (nothing as legally binding), so I can sympathize with his situation, however I also realize that its youthful irresponsibility that caused this whole situation whether or not his fans or the coL haters want to admit it. I can't imagine what it would be like to be young and have big amounts of money thrown at you to play a game you enjoy, but its also his responsibility to carefully decide his course of action and to follow contracts he signed.

I think that what coL should take from this is that they really need to be thorough when dealing with players from other countries at explaining their contracts and what it means. They absolutely have a right to either pursue Mill to buy out his contract or have Stephano play for them, however I personally think seeking Mill to buy the contract out is the more diplomatic approach.

Stephano definitely needs to grow up. Flopping on HUGE decisions like this makes him seem childish and it at least partially rubs off onto the scene. Staying true to your word (in most ordinary circumstances) is one of the most important aspects of being an adult and he definitely has not stayed true to his word to at least one party here.

Mill definitely needs to learn about contract law at least, and idk it seems like they pressured him into staying


best summary so far.
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#928
Not exactly classy.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Gwal
Profile Joined September 2011
Spain20 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 20:18:38
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#929
Llewellys (Millenium manager) is currently talking about this on Millenium TV stream.

- According to him, coL never contacted them
- It concede that Millenium or Stephano may have acted in a poorly way, but explain that when wanting things to be done properly, the least thing is talking to all impacted sides and discuss.
- It has stated that the so called "contract" is not even "real" professional contract, and probably has many clauses that make it void
"If in doubt, flat out" - Colin McRae
Tanith
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom108 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#930
On September 20 2011 05:13 Maxtor wrote:
That is just really making a mockery of e-sports, a legally binding contract is exactly that, its not a handshake deal, stephano knew what he was signing, if the contract isnt honoured id really want to know the consequences.


The whole point is though under French law that contract wasn't worth the paper it was written on, he basically signed his name on a napkin to get a nice salary bump from Mil. What he Stephano did was pretty shitty in the eyes of everyone here it seems, in all honesty if he was happy at Mil and used coL to get a salary boost then good on him, smart head for an 18yr old kid!
dpL
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden571 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#931
On September 20 2011 05:17 two.watup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 05:12 ArnaudF wrote:
Btw it's Millenium not Millennium, god damnit!

Sorry that people assume it's spelled correctly.

Millenium is not a word.

We'll have to settle this in court. FRENCH COURT!
StarCraft64
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States354 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#932
All of this just so there can be something to talk about on SotG this week? Seems like a bit much...
Elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another the ultimate assumption remains: "I feed on your energy."
xtfftc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2343 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#933
On September 20 2011 05:12 eauxlune wrote:
If Mill has the audacity to hide behind the borders of their country

lol

On September 20 2011 05:12 Daeno wrote:
Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, yet another black eye for sc2 "esports". Way to make us look good you selfish pricks.

That's growth for you. Welcome to real sports where this happens every transfer window. That's all we ever wanted, right?
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#934

On September 20 2011 05:12 Koorb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2011 05:06 ravemir wrote:
Can anyone who understands fluent French listen to the stream and report what the guy is saying?

http://www.millenium.org/home/milleniumtv/?chaine=millenium_tv


Lwl states again that there is a signed contract between Stephano and coL, but that the contract wasn't complying with french labor law, that millenium staff showed the loopholes of the contract to stephano, and that stephano therefore decided to cancel his agreement.


Oh noes.

Now why doesn't millenium *talk* to coL about their mistake, and tell them why, instead of both Stephano and Mellenium just *ignoring* coL.


(which just escalates the problem)
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Sandro
Profile Joined April 2011
897 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#935
On September 20 2011 05:14 zhurai wrote:
> signs a contract
> doesn't follow through


..............................

> French scene

There was a french scene?

There is a scene, but it is really insular and isolated from the rest of us.
Angra
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2652 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-19 20:21:29
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#936
I have no idea who Stephano is (haven't been following the scene for awhile) but just based on the two letters written by the two teams in the OP, it seems as if Stephano decided by himself to join Complexity, then Mill got all flustered that he would leave them and talked him into breaking the contract and staying instead. Just as Mill said that he was young and confused and got "disoriented" about signing the contract, it sounds in the same way that Mill took advantage of this same thing and talked him back into staying.

I'd say Complexity is in the right here based on what I've read so far, and I feel bad they they might have to do something that will make people angry at them, just because another team disrespected their contract and took back a player that they just legally signed.
coljbass
Profile Joined June 2011
United States42 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#937
At the end of the day I am not a lawyer but my partner Jason Lake is. Lot's of people can always say that a contract is "badly" written or it has "no value" but what I can say is that our contract very clearly spells out what we will provide and what is expected from the player. So maybe the focus should be on if someone understands the offer and accepts the offer and then signs the contract, that is probably a tad bit more important than if some clause that is necessary for a French contract is missing.

The intention of a contract is for an offer and acceptance as well as all that is required of both parties and I can safely say that our contract spells all of that out very clearly. There is no doubt that he was getting what he asked for and he should have had no doubt what he was asked for in return. I spoke to him for weeks and answered all questions. So sure we could all spend our lives focusing on something that is not worded correctly or something that is "missing" because I can assure you there is probably not a "perfect" contract out there. The more important issue is did he know what he was being asked to do and did he know what he was receiving in return and did he subsequently sign the contract and agree to the terms as they were? And the answer in this case is absolutely.
zarepath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1626 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#938
Wait a minute. The french pro player is surrendering from his international contract and retreating back to a french team?
"Your efforts you put in will never betray you." - Flash | "If I'm not good enough, I don't wanna win." - Naniwa
Fushin
Profile Joined June 2010
France193 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#939
Well he got what was negotiated during the 18 days still ^^
eauxlune
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
43 Posts
September 19 2011 20:17 GMT
#940
On September 20 2011 05:14 zhurai wrote:
> signs a contract
> doesn't follow through


..............................

> French scene

There was a french scene?


All I can picture is MoMaN, Stephano, Adelscott and ToD playing a round robin and drinking expensive wine.

Seriously though, there are a handful amount of medium/high profile french tournaments, but I'm sure no one comes even close to considering the French scene one of top tier potency.
Prev 1 45 46 47 48 49 158 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 59m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .263
Nathanias 134
BRAT_OK 111
ForJumy 103
ProTech76
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 553
ivOry 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever35
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K3158
Fnx 1012
Foxcn357
sgares343
oskar230
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu502
Other Games
FrodaN3033
Gorgc2805
qojqva936
Dendi713
C9.Mang0137
QueenE87
Trikslyr84
Sick35
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV34
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22073
• WagamamaTV706
Other Games
• imaqtpie1605
• Shiphtur444
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
14h 59m
Serral vs Cure
Solar vs Classic
OSC
17h 59m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 13h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 17h
CSO Cup
1d 19h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 21h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.