I considered Black will play this pawn exchange move, and pretty much I decided already e5 will be my move. Still kinda messed up from Barcraft, maybe I'll update some reason later. I have a feeling that e5 will win by a landslide...

Malinor

Germany4738 Posts

August 29 2011 13:30 GMT

#783

6. e5

I basically just put the position on a board and play through several moves and decide which ones I like. No engines, no databases. And I try to only read the comments of other participants after I decided on a move, and only change it if there is a real reason and not just a difference in taste.
That's for me the most fun way to play this match anyway.

EnderSword

Canada669 Posts

August 29 2011 14:12 GMT

#784

6. e5

People have written plenty of reasons why

LaXerCannon

Canada558 Posts

August 29 2011 14:39 GMT

#785

6. e5

+ Show Spoiler +

On August 24 2011 08:23 LaXerCannon wrote:
5.d4

What can black respond with?

....

5... exd4
We can now thrust our pawn up via 6.e5, black can't follow up with Nh5? as it allows 7. Nxd4! nor should it risk Ne4 as after Qe2, black loses that knight... Ng4 is the same as Nh5 except now the knight can retreat to h6 allowing Bxh6, ruining black's castled position. This leaves 6. ... Nd5, allowing us to take d4 and giving us two strong center pawns.

pburns

United States12 Posts

August 29 2011 14:53 GMT

#786

6.e5

+ Show Spoiler +

this game is going to get good.

shackes

Germany148 Posts

August 29 2011 15:00 GMT

#787

6. e5

nothing to add

Jumbled

1543 Posts

August 29 2011 15:02 GMT

#788

6. e5

EvilNalu

United States91 Posts

August 29 2011 16:10 GMT

#789

6. e5

Boozerr

United States28 Posts

August 29 2011 16:14 GMT

#790

6. e5

enigmaticcam

United States280 Posts

August 29 2011 16:21 GMT

#791

6. e5

+ Show Spoiler +

There are a few things I don't like about 6. Bxc6. It potentially opens the d file for black, and his queen will be eyeing the d4 square. There is a possibility it could open up completely, allowing black to exchange queens and rid our chance of castling. Also, the position will be opening up pretty soon here, and I think the bishops will be worth more.

But I haven't dug deep enough yet to confirm any of this, which I will do later today. For now, 6. e5 is the best move in my eyes.

qrs

United States3637 Posts

August 29 2011 17:05 GMT

#792

On August 30 2011 01:21 enigmaticcam wrote:
6. e5

+ Show Spoiler +

Fair enough: I agree that 6. Bxc6 could use some investigating before we pronounce it fully viable. In my opinion, the line that we need to look at is+ Show Spoiler [continued] +

6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. cxd4 Bb6 (not 7...Bb4+, which just simplifies the game, with an advantage for us, imo).

tyr

France1686 Posts

August 29 2011 17:15 GMT

#793

6. e5

seems solid indeed

aphorism

United States226 Posts

August 29 2011 17:22 GMT

#794

6. e5

simplifying the board makes the game boring.

itsjustatank

Hong Kong9174 Posts

August 29 2011 17:26 GMT

#795

6. e5

zasta

United Kingdom99 Posts

August 29 2011 18:10 GMT

#796

6. e5

Chezus

Netherlands427 Posts

August 29 2011 18:24 GMT

#797

6. E5

qrs

United States3637 Posts

August 29 2011 18:25 GMT

#798

edited to remove mistaken statement that in more than one of the lines proposed after 6. e5, we + Show Spoiler +

sacrifice a pawn.

Votes

6. e5: 16 (hype[NZ], Bill Murray, Raysalis, jdseemoreglass, keyStorm, Malli, chesshaha, Malinor, EnderSword, LaXerCannon, pburns, shackes, Jumbled, EvilNalu, Boozerr, enigmaticcam, tyr, aphorism, itsjustatank, zasta, Chezus)
6. Bxc6: 1 (qrs)
[image loading]

Note: I've read all the posts in this thread. Below I attempt to summarize the discussion so far. If you think I've missed an important point, say so.

General Issues That Must Be Dealt with in the Position and the Plans to Deal with Them

+ Show Spoiler +

Black is temporarily up a pawn from his capture last move. If we don't address this, he can easily consolidate this material advantage by trading off his extra pawn with PxP.

Although we could conceivably allow this, as a sort of speculative gambit, this has not received much consideration (although jdseemoreglass brings it up in several lines, in the post I link to below). In most lines that have been proposed, our intention is to recapture d4 with our c3 pawn.
Our undefended e4 pawn is subject to capture by Black's Knight.

The two main plans that have been proposed to deal with this are 6. e5, moving the pawn to a safe square for the moment, with tempo, and BxN, with the intention of first removing some of Black's other threats, and then simply defending the e-pawn with the Queen's Knight (although the possibility of e5 is not ruled out).

Candidate Moves and Rationales

6. e5 The complicating move
+ Show Spoiler [general] +

6. e5 addresses the weakness of our e-pawn with an aggressive counterattack, removing the threat to the e-pawn with tempo, as Black is forced to spend the next move removing his Knight to safety. Black's likely response to this will be 6...Nd5, moving his Knight to an active, central square whence it cannot easily be driven away. Another possible Black response that has been suggested is 6...Ne4, putting the Knight on a square more vulnerable in the long term, but putting more pressure on us in the short term.

One possibility for White is 7. PxP, recapturing the d-pawn, supporting our now-vulnerable e-pawn, and gaining a tempo by attacking Black's Bishop. This opens up the possibility of 7...Bb4+, which simplifies the game by force, if Black wants that. If Black has played 6...Ne4 (exerting pressure on d2), then 7... Bb4+ becomes a stronger move: for instance, 8. Bd2, previously a strong reply to 7...Bb4+, becomes far less attractive in light of 8...NxB.

Black can also play the quieter 7. ...Bb6, maintaining long-term pressure on our d-pawn, or the passive 7...Be7

For White, alternative 7th moves proposed include 7. 0-0, bringing our King to safety and continuing to develop. It must be noted that in the case where Black has played 6...Ne4 this move offers to sacrifice a pawn, in exchange for a lead in development. If we are willing to consider this move, then it's probably also worth making this offer immediately, with 6. 0-0.

In the case that Black plays 6...Ne4, another 7th move proposed for White is 7. Qe2, gaining time by attacking the Knight, and leading to a sharp and tactical game.

+ Show Spoiler [arguments for] +

Continues to keep all the pieces on the board, keeping the game as complex as possible. This makes for a fun game to play.
Claims a lot of territory and central position for White, at least in the short term.
Solves the problem of e4 without resorting to other moves that may have drawbacks of their own. See "arguments against" for other moves.

+ Show Spoiler [arguments against] +

Opens the door to various tactical complications that some may not have fully considered. (For instance, in one of the suggested lines, we offer to sacrifice a pawn after all.)
Weakens our hold on the center by relinquishing control of d5 and f5, each of which has potential to be a strong square for Black.
Extends our pawn structure to a point where it is doubtful that we can maintain it for the long term. It is likely that down the line, Black will be able to exchange off our central pawns, leaving us with no particular advantage in the center.

Whether you favour 6. e5 or oppose it, this post by jdseemoreglass is practically required reading for anyone who wants to give deep consideration to this move.

6. Bxc6 The simplifying move
+ Show Spoiler [general] +

Although it is not without some complications of its own, the general idea of 6. Bxc6 is to maintain our central advantage without committing our e-pawn to the aggressive but long-term-weakening e5. The immediate point of 6. Bxc6 is to remove a defender from b4, allowing us to respond to ...Bb4+ by playing Bd2 with tempo (as it attacks the Bishop).

This move leads to at least some simplification of the board (the initial exchange of Bishop for Knight) and possibly more, especially if Black wants that. However, it offers a chance to preserve our edge without entering into unclear tactical lines.

+ Show Spoiler [arguments for] +

Weakens Black's pawn structure by doubling his pawns (this is a general point of this move, whatever turn it is played on).
Furthermore, if Black captures with his d-pawn, in order to open lines for his Queen and Bishop, then he is capturing away from the center, which adds to our central control, a long-term advantage, if we can maintain it.
Allows us to play 7. PxP without worrying about ...Bb4+ (this is the reason for playing Bxc6 on this move rather than another).
Solves the problem of e4 without resorting to other moves that may have drawbacks of their own. See "arguments against" for other moves.

+ Show Spoiler [arguments against] +

Leads to simplified positions (as compared to many lines of 6. e5), which may not be as much fun to play.
Allows Black to open lines for his Queen and Bishop, (with 6...dxc6), thus essentially conceding him a tempo or so of development.
Leaves Black with a Bishop for a Knight, while leading to an open board, which, generally, speaking, is much more helpful to Bishops than to Knights.

In general, the rush of votes to 6. e5 make me wonder whether everyone has considered all the ramifications of this rather complicated move. For instance, does everyone who votes for 6. e5 want to + Show Spoiler +

sacrifice a pawn?

In one of the lines jdseemoreglass gives in the linked post above, White does just that.

In my opinion, this move is not a no-brainer: the moves available to us here--including 6. e5, 6. Bxc6, and perhaps even 6. 0-0, deserve careful consideration.