Mario Mini Mafia - Page 33

On November 14 2012 07:12 marvellosity wrote:
Clarity, I've put the quiz on ice, it wasn't as awesome as I'd hoped.



townies don't HAVE extra info, so they can't reveal it. duh.

On November 14 2012 07:15 Blazinghand wrote:


No, I mentioned I wasn't threatened by the claim, then you asked me about it, then I expanded on it. I was responding to him claiming I was threatened by his claim, and everything I've said is correct.

On November 14 2012 06:16 Blazinghand wrote:


You were starting a weak wagon. This is the easiest way to start a wagon as scum. You wanted to take a position that LOOKED good, which is started a wagon, without the commitment and risk that comes with it. Something you could back off of or move away from easily-- and look how you did. It was a vote with a ghost of a case rather than a real one. And you backtracked it quite well, but the point stands.

Why "started a wagon"? I don't follow that terminology at all. First of all, I don't see how "starting a wagon" makes you look good. Scum are just as capable of starting a wagon as anyone else. Again, I could easily say the same thing about how you started a wagon on me. What you seem to be using to distinguish between the two is that I didn't make a case, hile you did. Right now I can't tell whether you are incapable of seeing it as a pressure vote as town (which to me, it seems actually quite obvious), or whether you are just trying to "look good" by appearing to be a confident townie.



Yeah it was based on iamp being generally a bad player but there's also a difference between starting a wagon with no case and jumping on one with no case. In retrospect iamp was not immune to blame, but saying something like "he didn't attack iamperfection hard enough" or "one paragraph in this post was a bit fluffy" (when in fact it was not, i'm trying to help the players in this game play well) isn't a legitimate critique of my posting.

Huh? Let me get this straight:
starting a wagon with no case = scum.
Jumping on a wagon with no case = less scum or townie.
This because in the first part, you are trying to make yourself look good?



You've made a good case for why DP and iamperfection are also scummy, but nothing here about why you're not. In retrospect, I shouldn't have implicitly rule out the possibility of you AND iamperfection being scum together.

What do you want me to say? I'm not scum because I'm town? You want a self-arranged case on why I'm town? No, what I can do is explain why your case against me is bad, which I did.

With the DP and imperfection argument, I've done just that - explained why your case is bad. Your arguments for finding me scum are more than applicable to other players, yet for some reason, you choose to target me, the guy who claimed miller.



And, I think it's scummy here that
A) you've backed away from your SnB vote and claimed it was just pressure when the wagon began to fall apart, just like you set up for when you voted
B) this is basically a straight-up OMGUS

Just like I did with debears. Not because "it fell apart", but because it was a pressure vote. The lack of a proper case is a testament to that.
I had moved my vote over to iamperfection, and he seems scummy but I really can't ignore a shit OMGUS of this magnitude. Rereading I've realized it was a mistake to ever unvote you. And I am not threatened by your claim because a miller claim is meaningless-- it's a null tell. It's never factored into my case or my analysis of you, but you sure seem insecure about it.

Did anyone say you felt threatened by my claim? Or are you just casually throwing that out there, such as a defensive scum?
##unvote
##vote ZB

On November 13 2012 10:13 Z-BosoN wrote:


Glad I beat you to it.
Interesting way to claim VT though. Actually I find that suspicious as fuck.

##Unvote
##Vote strongandbig

Debears, I hope your posting improves throughout this game. Also, what do you mean by "that argument again?".

Scum just love implying they are town.

On November 14 2012 07:17 Clarity_nl wrote:


But he never said you were threatened. He said scum was threatened.

Do you see what I mean?

On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
ithout giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE??
Townie Motivation: none.
Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim.

On November 14 2012 07:17 Blazinghand wrote:


Townies make statements that appear to be scumslips. You know this as well as I do, and regularly fight against bad cases based on so-called scumslips all the time. Don't play dumb.

On November 14 2012 06:02 marvellosity wrote:


This has been bugging me all afternoon. Sure, we're not in his mind, but the job of a good townie is to PUT yourself in someone else's shoes and try to best work out how/what/why they're doing or have done things.

And Hapa knows this too.

GSL 3:



Puts himself in the shoes of a player who was outwardly playing scummily (lurking, not giving reads, etc.). And his read there is that he doesn't see scum Kei doing whatever he was doing.

In this game though:



He's not willing to put the same thinking process into iamperfection, and this reeks, especially as my main argument in defence of iamperfection is why the fuck would he vote for Z-Bo of all people after his earlier town read on him.

You have to think about what he could/should/would do and what iamp did there does not line up with how I see him playing scum, and for some reason Hapa does not address this. He gives some bad 'scum motive' but at the same time doesn't address anything at all with how iamp in particular was thinking at the time.

On November 14 2012 05:00 Clarity_nl wrote:


Yeah.... making a case on Darth isn't working, which I think in itself says a lot.

...

##Vote DarthPunk

On November 14 2012 07:19 marvellosity wrote:


not with extra information stuff, no.

On November 14 2012 07:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh sniped by some cases on BH. I'll get to that in a bit.

I've always heard that BH's scum-play is notoriously bad, and he seems more fearless than I would expect from his "bad" scum play. I'll take a look at the cases, but that's my first impression of him anywho.

On November 14 2012 07:22 Blazinghand wrote:


Yes, they do. All the time.

On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote:
To him, this post is clearly me trying to start a wagon. I find this absurd. If I wanted to look good by starting a wagon, would I not bother to make a case that people would actually follow? Does he honestly think I expected three other people to vote SnB as well due to this post? He's basically saying that if three other people hadn't voted on him, then I'd be much less guilty. I can say this due to his ginourmous insistence that I'm, again, "trying to get town cred for starting a wagon" , which, to him, makes perfect sense. That implies that if I hadn't started a wagon (i,e wagon = more people voting for the same person as me), then he wouldn't have been using my first vote on SnB as an argument.
One can argue: "But ZB! He said you tried, not that you did!" . That is very true. Except that by that logic, every first vote on someone is an "attempt to start a wagon", which is silly.

On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hope that makes sense as to why I find that his main reason for voting me is absurd, and uncharacteristic of someone with a decent townie play.

3) Clearly says that making the first vote on someone is scummier than sheeping a case, if both have no reasoning behind it. Because the guy with the first vote is "trying to look good", while the second guy is pretty swell.

On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote:
4) Up until now I've assumed his premise that my vote came with no reasoning, which is quite untrue. Quoting myself in a later post:

.

To which he conveniently dismisses that as "a crap explanation". That is, he acknowledges that there IS an explanation, but it's just so bad that it has to come from scum, defining my vote on him as "trying to start a weak wagon".

5) Also note that he said I unvoted SnB "as soon as it was hopeless". Except that I unvoted SnB because I changed my vote to BH.

On November 14 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote:
Concluding...
I find his reaction to my case against him and his second bout further testaments to the fact that he is scum. So:

• He's purposefully being insanely dense. He's conjecturing up his own thoughts on how a scum would behave in my position, and is completely obtuse to interpreting my SnB vote as a "pressure vote", which seems to be clear that I wasn't like OMG LET'S LYNCH SNB!!!
  
• He maintains this ridiculous idea of me "trying to look good by starting a (weak) wagon".
  
• Doesn't make it clear why I'm getting his vote instead of other people, on which his arguments are clearly more applicable than on me.
  
• Is too convinced by his own case, which I've done my best (and a couple of others as well) to say how bad it was.
  

I cannot see this coming from townie play, especially regarding someone like BH, and will maintain my vote on him. I hope that by this post you can clearly see how he is - at the very least - playing this game very badly, and hope that you will agree with me that this guy is scum.

On November 14 2012 07:23 marvellosity wrote:


that's a logical fallacy, because they don't have extra information to slip.

On November 14 2012 07:21 marvellosity wrote:
no Hapa, the point is you're not putting yourself in scum iamp shoes, not town iamp shoes.

On November 14 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Hapa

What I meant was: "I'm having trouble making a case on him"
The reason I said this was because that actually speaks volumes about how he's been playing. 3 pages of filter and nothing to go on, even when you look closely.

I didn't find some "scum gem" in one of his posts and started from there. I had a gut feeling and when I looked into him I found nothing that makes him town or scum, and that's concerning to me.

I did provide analysis.

On November 14 2012 07:27 Hapahauli wrote:


So you're suggesting that he's active lurking or something like that?

On November 14 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote:
Blazing, you still haven't answered why you're attacking Z-Bo so heavily for his s&b vote when there's a slew of other people who made very similar votes.

And stop calling his case OMGUS, it's tedious.

On November 14 2012 07:30 Clarity_nl wrote:


I'm suggesting that he is blending in. Afterwards it got pointed out that he's also in Acme right now, another active mafia game, and I adjusted my case accordingly.