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Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 21:35 GMT
#621
So I guess when I got home literally everyone else stepped out for a smoke or are taking a constipated turn on the toilet. That's cool-- I'll be around for a while.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 21:46 GMT
#622
On November 14 2012 06:16 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum.
That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages.

There are, however, some things I'd like to point out during these last events, though:

First thing to note is how uncharacteristically bad BH's case is against me. He's basically saying I'm bullshitting with every post I make. While I agree my posts are not the bestest they can be, I'm not sure why that implies I'm scum.

He says this one thing in particular though:

ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks.


Note two things.
1) He's saying I'm setting up to look good as a wagon starter.
This is balls-to-the wall dumb. How am I a wagon starter just for having the first vote? Also, as he himself noted, I did not write a full essay regarding why I think SnB is scum. I voted for him for implying that he is town, and that's basically it. If I wanted to become a "wagon starter", that's obviously the exact opposite of what I should do, I would make a much more elaborate case.
Ironically, I could say the same about BH and his case on me, and with much more validity, as he actually goes deep in his case on me, and seems somehow certain of my alignment, something which he leaves very clear later on:
...I actually want to lynch ZB, and ZB is actually scum....

Now, I'm not scum, so in my pov he is pretty much full of shit with this remark. There's a difference between bad logic, the thing he is calling me on bullshitting, and actual bullshitting, which is what this "wagon starting" remark actually is.



You were starting a weak wagon. This is the easiest way to start a wagon as scum. You wanted to take a position that LOOKED good, which is started a wagon, without the commitment and risk that comes with it. Something you could back off of or move away from easily-- and look how you did. It was a vote with a ghost of a case rather than a real one. And you backtracked it quite well, but the point stands.


Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
2) He's saying my filter is short, and it's clear I'm not helping.
Again, completely ironic and hypocritical.
He has only three completely useless posts up until this one:

On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:47 Kickstart wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:42 marvellosity wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote:
On November 13 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote:
Whats everybody think of bh he is like a very good player when he is town from what i saw and here he really hasent done anything despite being here tell me what you guys think.


Give him a chance. He is one of those guys I would 100% never lynch day one because the benefits of him being town vastly out weigh the risks of him being scum.

From what I have heard around the grapevine however he is fairly easy to read as scum so we should be fine to take a look at him later on in the game.


you kidding? I'd lynch him day 1 in a heartbeat if I thought he was scum.


Well. That is fine. But I am not going to lynch him day one when he is a very good town player and the only case against him so far is that he is lurking.


The night (or day in terms of our game i guess!) is young, I wouldn't call anyone a lurker just yet. But I agree with marv that people who give off scum vibes should get the vote and find it odd that you are basically stating that you wouldn't vote for him no matter what ;o.


Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose.



Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even.

Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller.

That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously.


The second paragraph is completely fluffy, he's not actually saying anything.

That being said, I would like everyone to pay attention to the bolded on the third paragraph. He heavily, heavily thrashes me for being weak on my vote on SnB. Let's ignore all the others, especially DP (who voted TWICE on SnB, without saying anything). Let's focus on what he says here on iamp - and this is important. He says that iamp is throwing his vote around to pressure people, and that's all A-ok.


Yeah it was based on iamp being generally a bad player but there's also a difference between starting a wagon with no case and jumping on one with no case. In retrospect iamp was not immune to blame, but saying something like "he didn't attack iamperfection hard enough" or "one paragraph in this post was a bit fluffy" (1)when in fact it was not, i'm trying to help the players in this game play well) isn't a legitimate critique of my posting.

Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
Now pause and think here. I'll quote what he said about that on me for clarity:

....S&B's "accidental" "vt claim" (both of those are in question) could be suspicious. But Z-B doesn't explain why. He doesn't set up a scum motive. He just slaps down a vote and bails. This is a chance to look like a townie wagon-started without doing analysis or writing the kind of long posts that could reveal his own scum motives. When Hapa rightly calls him on it .....


and

....A town player would lay out his own thought process right away so that others understand what he's thinking. He'd respond to s&B and push the wagon, not just slap down a vote and a bad explanation.....


Now contrast that to what he said about iamp's voting. On iamp, he is completely casual regarding his voting. On his case on me, however, he's aggressive and incisive , as you can clearly tell from the quotes I posted above.

Why does this make him scummy? Because it shows clear signs of fabrication, as one can easily infer from the quotes above. His views on "casual voting" are in complete contrast.

One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE??
Townie Motivation: none.
Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim.


2)You've made a good case for why DP and iamperfection are also scummy, but nothing here about why you're not. In retrospect, I shouldn't have implicitly rule out the possibility of you AND iamperfection being scum together.

Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:


tl;dr
1) Blazinghand's case on me is uncharacteristically bad. It's also not consistent with his townie play on Liquid City. Look at his progression on Shiaopi, who was incidentally also making uncharacteristically bad cases as well.
2) Blazinghand is being supremely inconsistent, contradictory and hypocritical of what he defines as scum-motivated and what not, showing signs of someone who is merely fabricating cases, as detailed above.

I tried to be as clear as possible here, because I don't want people to feel like this is just OMGUS.

My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear.
This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum.

##Unvote
##Vote Blazinghand


And, I think it's scummy here that
A) you've backed away from your SnB vote and claimed it was just pressure when the wagon began to fall apart, just like you set up for when you voted
B) this is basically a straight-up OMGUS

I had moved my vote over to iamperfection, and he seems scummy but I really can't ignore a shit OMGUS of this magnitude. Rereading I've realized it was a mistake to ever unvote you. 3)And I am not threatened by your claim because a miller claim is meaningless-- it's a null tell. It's never factored into my case or my analysis of you, but you sure seem insecure about it.

##unvote
##vote ZB


1) I don't think anyone in this game would describe your play as "trying to help others to play well"
2) You haven't defended yourself either.
3) Were you supposed to feel threatened? Why even mention this?

Clearly I'm not seeing what you're seeing because Zbo looks town to me. He hasn't posted much but his posts have been informative and give me an idea of what he's thinking at that time.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 21:48 GMT
#623
1) yeah but that post was
2) just did
3) he mentioned it
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 21:51 GMT
#624
I wouldn't say tunneling someone is considered defending yourself. I don't disagree with this notion. If you're town just scumhunt and the fact that you're town will shine through, but don't accuse someone else of not defending themselves.

Where did he mention you're threatened by his claim?
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 21:55 GMT
#625
In his OMGUS post
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 21:55 GMT
#626
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
One more thing, that I ignored earlier. If he feels so strongly about me voting SnB without giving any reasoning or thoughts, why isn't he going after DP, who's actually done that not once, but TWICE??
Townie Motivation: none.
Scum motivation: he feels threatened that I have claimed miller and people are not showing signs of doubt on my claim.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 21:56 GMT
#627
But, you're not scum, right? So you don't feel threatened, right?
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 21:58 GMT
#628
Um, that's not the reason I'm not threatened, though I am indeed not scum. A miller claim is meaningless, unconfirmable, and a null tell. Scum wouldn't be threatened by the claim.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 21:59 GMT
#629
Well, a D1 miller claim with self-aware millers at least. It's a null-tell.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 22:01 GMT
#630
But you didn't say "Scum wouldn't be threatened", you said "I'm not threatened"
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 22:01 GMT
#631
Right, because I'm not threatened.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 22:02 GMT
#632
Are you saying I townslipped because a scum player would refer to himself as scum?
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 22:03 GMT
#633
I'd love someone else's input on this phrasing. Am I reading too much into it?

Marv if you're gonna do quiztime it should be soon. I plan on going to bed at NOT 4 am since I have to be up 3 am tomorrow for lynchtime.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 22:04 GMT
#634
Yeah you're reading too much into it, or you're reading into it wrongly. A miller claim is a null tell and threatens no one.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 22:04 GMT
#635
On November 14 2012 07:02 Blazinghand wrote:
Are you saying I townslipped because a scum player would refer to himself as scum?


No. I see it more as a scumslip.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 22:06 GMT
#636
Scumslips don't exist. Townies "scumslip" as much as scum do. There are scum mindsets and scum ways of doing things, but revealing "extra info" or telling someone you're scum inadvertently happens equally to scum or town. It's self-serving of me to mention this, but it's also true.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
November 13 2012 22:12 GMT
#637
Clarity, I've put the quiz on ice, it wasn't as awesome as I'd hoped.

On November 14 2012 07:06 Blazinghand wrote:
Scumslips don't exist. Townies "scumslip" as much as scum do. There are scum mindsets and scum ways of doing things, but revealing "extra info" or telling someone you're scum inadvertently happens equally to scum or town. It's self-serving of me to mention this, but it's also true.


townies don't HAVE extra info, so they can't reveal it. duh.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 22:12 GMT
#638
Wow did everyone voting me seriously peace out as soon as I came back? Clarity_nl is fine to talk to, but it'd be nice to interact with the people trying to lynch me too.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 13 2012 22:13 GMT
#639
I've heard that before and I don't necessarily disagree, but this really stood out to me. I wasn't digging for it, I was simply asking questions, and the things you told me were:

-Zbo said that scum would be threatened by his miller claim
-Scum wouldn't be threatened by his miller claim
-You are not threatened by his miller claim

Sure, you could mean that as a townie you're not threatened by his claim, but why would you say this? Especially if, as town, you think he's scum.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
November 13 2012 22:15 GMT
#640
On November 14 2012 07:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
I've heard that before and I don't necessarily disagree, but this really stood out to me. I wasn't digging for it, I was simply asking questions, and the things you told me were:

-Zbo said that scum would be threatened by his miller claim
-Scum wouldn't be threatened by his miller claim
-You are not threatened by his miller claim

Sure, you could mean that as a townie you're not threatened by his claim, but why would you say this? Especially if, as town, you think he's scum.


No, I mentioned I wasn't threatened by the claim, then you asked me about it, then I expanded on it. I was responding to him claiming I was threatened by his claim, and everything I've said is correct.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
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