Although my earlier note said the competition was too close for Bisu right now, if he did come through and keep winning, he might be the most impressive bonjwa ever.

Chameleon

United States604 Posts

January 09 2009 09:49 GMT

#42

For reference that 82.5% for his last 40 (also 70% last 10 v T, 80% last 10 v Z, 90% last 10 v P) games is as good as Savior's best streak of 40 games (33-7) 1 game less than Oov's best (34-6) and better than Nada's best (31-9 by my count).

The fact that the overall quality of pro players is much higher now makes Bisu's incredible record more impressive, not less. It's true that Bisu doesnt totally rape people like the (other?old?older?) bonjwas, but when you look at the new era of protoss dominance, especially the way they play against zergs, you can hardly argue that Bisu didn't launch the game to a higher level.

Sure Bisu loses to flash more often than he wins, but even MJY "the original bonjwa" looked mortal against Hwasin Midas and Chojja during his reign (not to mention FBH and a certain 3x MSL champion protoss after).

Now I'm not saying we should be calling Bisu a bonjwa just yet. In fact, I honestly really dont like bisu that much (I like reach, best, kang min, and horang2 much more), but what I am saying is that with the super high level of play today (which in my mind arrived with the fall of savior at the super fast hands of bisu) wins and titles count more than ever and we wouldnt be wrong to start thinking a little differently about what exactly "dominance" is and what exactly a "rape" looks like. With this in mind, if KTYcontinues to play this well across mu's, and has the right kind of showing in in this coming MSL, OSL, and Gom Classic, he will deserve to be called "bonjwa".

Letmelose

Korea (South)3227 Posts

January 09 2009 10:26 GMT

#43

Counting only OGN and MBC leagues for consistency's sake. I'll exclude Boxer for obvious reasons.

Nada

2nd KPGA: 2002-06-22, 1st place
3rd KPGA: 2002-10-05, 1st place
SKY OSL: 2002-10-12, did not participate (overlapping schedules)
4th KPGA: 2003-01-18, 1st place
Panasonic OSL: 2003-2-14, 1st place

Nada managed to win 4 out of the 5 leagues within a stretch of roughly 6 months.

Oov

Trigem MSL: 2003-11-30, 1st place
NHL OSL: 2004-03-21, did not qualify
CEN Game MSL: 2004-04-18, 1st place
Gillette OSL: 2004-07-31, 3rd place
SPRIS MSL: 2004-08-29, 1st place
Ever OSL: 2004-11-20, 1st place

Oov managed to win 4 out of the 6 leagues that took place within a time frame of roughly a year.

Savior

Uzoo MSL: 2005-08-06, 1st place
So1 OSL: 2005-11-05, did not qualify
CYON MSL: 2006-01-14, 2nd place
Shinhan OSL: 2006-03-04, did not qualify
Shinhan S1 OSL: 2006-06-23, did not qualify
Pringles S1 MSL: 2006-07-16, 1st place
Pringles S2 MSL: 2006-11-11, 1st place
Shinhan S2 OSL: 2006-11-18, did not qualify
Shinhan S3 OSL: 2007-02-24, 1st place

You can take either Savior taking 4 out of the 9 leagues that took place over the course of about a year and a half, or you can take (like I would) him taking 3 out of the 4 leagues that happened over the space of about 6 months.

For comparison's sake, here's Nal Ra, July, Bisu and Jaedong.

Nal Ra

Stout MSL: 2003-07-19, 1st place
MyCube OSL: 2003-11-09, 2nd place
Trigem MSL: 2003-11-30, out in the 2nd round of loser's bracket
NHN OSL: 2004-03-21, 1st place

Nal Ra takes 2 out of the 4 leagues that took place within the time frame of about 6 months

July

Gillette OSL: 2004-07-31, 1st place
SPRIS MSL: 2004-08-29, out in the 3rd round of the loser's bracket
Ever OSL: 2004-11-20, out in the round of 8
YATGK MSL: 2005-02-06, out in the 3rd round of the loser's bracket
IOPS OSL: 2005-03-05, 2nd place
Ever OSL: 2005-07-05, 1st place

July takes 2 out of the 6 leagues that took place within the time frame of about a year

Bisu

GomTV S1 MSL: 2007-03-03, 1st place
GomTV S2 MSL: 2007-07-14, 1st place
Daum OSL: 2007-07-21, out in the round of 8
GomTV S3: 2007-11-17, 2nd place
Ever OSL: 2007-12-22, 3rd place
GomTV S4 MSL: 2008-03-08, out in the round of 36
Bacchus OSL: 2008-03-15, out in the round of 4
Ever OSL: 2008-07-12, out in the round of 16
Arena MSL: 2008-07-26, out in the round of 36
Incruit OSL: 2008-11-01, out in the round of 8
Clubday MSL: 2008-11-22, 1st place

Bisu takes 3 out of 11 competitions within a space of about a year and a half.

Jaedong

Ever OSL: 2007-12-22, 1st place
GomTV S4 MSL: 2008-03-08, 1st place
Bacchus OSL: 2008-03-15, out in the round of 8
Ever OSL: 2008-07-12, out in the round of 36
Arena MSL: 2008-07-26, 2nd place

Jaedong takes 2 out of 5 competitions within a space of about 6 months.

Letmelose

Korea (South)3227 Posts

January 09 2009 10:36 GMT

#44

If you were to count all three of Bisu's MSL titles, the difference between him Nada, Oov and Savior becomes really obvious. For the same three individual league titles, Nada, Oov and Savior needs only 4 individual leagues.

As far as I'm concerned, Bisu is on a similar level with Nal Ra, July and Jaedong.

SilverSkyLark

Philippines8437 Posts

January 09 2009 10:56 GMT

#45

Boxer is the first bonjwa, holding the KePSA number 1 rank for 17 straight months iirc.

Shikyo

Finland33997 Posts

January 09 2009 11:02 GMT

#46

Bisu probably could be Bonjwa if he manages to win both the OSL and the MSL. I'm hoping that we'd get another Z bonjwa but it seems pretty bad these days..

fearus

China2164 Posts

January 09 2009 11:32 GMT

#47

You only need to read my sig to get my opnion on all of this.

selboN

United States2523 Posts

January 09 2009 11:39 GMT

#48

mod edit - mani

iPF[Div]

Spain572 Posts

January 09 2009 11:49 GMT

#49

Edit: shit totally forgot about spoilers.
ermm ya... so that bisu guy...

darktreb

United States3019 Posts

January 09 2009 11:55 GMT

#50

All this Bisu bonjwa talk reminds me of what people were saying about the Boston Celtics breaking 70, or even 72 wins. Turns out it was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay premature. You had to see Savior in his prime to understand just what a bonjwa, or at least the latest bonjwa, really was, just like you had to see that 95-96 Bulls team (the one that went 72-10 and started out at a ridiculous 41-3) play night in and night out to truly appreciate how great they were, and just how hard it actually is.

eshlow

United States5210 Posts

January 09 2009 12:25 GMT

#51

+ Show Spoiler +

And... Bisu is knocked out of OSL. So much for that.

disciple

9071 Posts

January 09 2009 12:27 GMT

#52

for god sake put this in spoiler
nvm, thanks

eshlow

United States5210 Posts

January 09 2009 12:30 GMT

#53

On January 09 2009 21:27 disciple wrote:
for god sake put this in spoiler
nvm, thanks

yeah, realized that immediately. my bad.

monstar123

United States516 Posts

January 09 2009 13:00 GMT

#54

+ Show Spoiler +

No bonjwa toss , bisu is eliminated from OSL. TT

Lebesgue

4542 Posts

January 09 2009 13:55 GMT

#55

Though Bisu's stats have been impressive lately I think one of te reason people don't consider him that dominant is that he doesn't play that often comared to other top players these days. Flash/Jaedong play many more games. Also at the time Stork won OSL he was playing shitloads of games against top opponents and dominating them. But Bisu plays less often than that. SKT prefers use Best more and hence Bisu doesn't have chance to prove himself as much.

Of course arguments given above apply as well.

4Servy

Netherlands1542 Posts

January 09 2009 14:04 GMT

#56

Bisu plays to sloppy and inconsistant to be a bownja not this killer instinct, in to many dumb loses wich get him kicked out of leauges over and over.

tenacity

1587 Posts

May 13 2010 10:55 GMT

#57

sorry for bump

if flash wins both the OSL and the MSL is he officially called a bonjwa?
i mean, without the doubt he is by far the best player atm and has been for the last year. imo, only jaedong could beat him in the msl finals.