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What will changing my vote do? I'll change it when it's a close vote but at this point changing my vote isn't going to do shit.
Suki called me out for a "scum slip" because I said something about Jonny hiding information. I don't think that's a good basis to put me under the scope. This game is about information, everything needs to be laid out there. Jonny himself claimed that he wasn't willing to reveal info for fear that mafia might use it to adapt their strategy, so why didn't Suki suspect him of that? The reason why I mentioned Jonny hiding something is because I did not understand his decision to lynch Asuna, because to me, his reason against Asuna was because he was inexperienced and it didn't make sense to me to lynch someone because of that.
Also, she said this:
'TheChyz's play is confusing so I'm voting for him'.
I did not say that directly, I was talking about how TheChyz's play created confusion among the town, which is something that mafia would want, hence my initial vote on him. I know I wasn't alone being confused with TheChyz's move.
Then later on her filter she immediately jumps on the lynch theDragoon bandwagon. Before this she was not entirely sure of my alignment, only thought I was suspicious, claiming things like "scum slip" or "voted because confused". The reason why she votes me right away is she saw the opportunity to lynch an innocent town member. I believed I covered a lot about why I think she's scum in my "defense post".
But I think the biggest tell on her being mafia is her absolute certainty of me being mafia.
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The fact that it is a landslide in voting atm is why im trying to poke theDragoon to talk some more. I think it's all going to easy atm, tho voting aside and before he voted for himself he was my biggest scumread. But hopefully he will contribute some more since he have some new found interesting in defending himself.
I'm here now, so if you wanna lynch me why don't you poke me for some reads or something. Kinda like the plan was with lurkers in the start of the day...
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Ugh it's just so hard because I totally can see how scum would buss their teammate in this current situation. It's different than other one-sided lynches in the previous games because of how dragoon shut-down. Like I would totally buss him..
If I were scum, I would probably begin to buss him after he self-voted, so i'd look @ Derrida, suki and sidesprang (if im jsut looking at it chronologically, jonnylaw too)
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The main reason I distrust Derrida is how quickly he jumped on voting for me. Before his vote on me, his top 2 were Suki and sidesprang, he didn't even give a reason as to why he's voting for me. Before that post he didn't even find me too suspicious aside from posting something offtopic and ontopic on the same line, which is a really stupid reason to think someone being suspicious. Maybe I was being lazy and decided not to press enter and type /ontopic before that part of my post, which was something I did later on because of Derrida's accusation.
So the main reason why I think he's scum is because he just jumped on me, providing no reason then leaving the game to sleep. He doesn't give us time to question his decision. I went from mild suspicions to LYNCH HIM. That in itself is shady as hell and I certainly don't trust someone who jumps the bandwagon without providing a reason at all.
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On January 07 2014 15:16 JonnyLaw wrote:
I'm more confident in lynching him than other players.
If you want to lynch dnyarri I'm down for that one as well. Otherwise TD stayign at the top of my list. Who do you think should be lynched today then ballaman? Maybe I'm just being lazy. I'll reread the filters.
Dang... dnyarri is lurking like shit..... I wrote them off early I think because I liked the response here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=22#426
There's a lot of critical thinking there. But still... so little. Not sure i'd lynch.. gotta think about it. I'm having trouble figuring out what to do which is super weird for me T_T...
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Wait no fuck that that post sucked... god i hate that post...on the contrary to what I said there is NO critical thinking beyond the weak hypothesis he posed about BigDad/Dragoon pair. I just realized the guy literally has 3 posts in this game. Would lynch.
I think I need sleep but fuck that...
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That's why I said I'd vote him.
I want to get rid of dragoon tho. It's going to be a weight on our back the rest of the game otherwise.
TD I asked you to do something twice. Very directly. Suki could be scum. I have balla and suki as the most useful townies at this point. Either of them could be scum but they're not showing it today.
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@jonnylaw on the same note though... he has a LOT of pressure on him, keeping him around will keep everyone who is currently voting him honest, they will have to continue to pressure him... and continue to have solid reasoning surrounding him.
I mean, let's be honest, there is 100% for sure scum in the people who already voted him. Having them have a forced hand on what they think about him might be a good thing. It's gonna be a weight on EVERYONE's back, not just towns.
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Ok Dragoon seems more or less done talking, and I want to hear Balla's take on my thoughts.
Let's talk about lurkers.
dnyarri
+ Show Spoiler +Three total posts. I flagged his first post as potentially scum, and given his follpw-up it looks even worse to me now than it did then. His second post switches his lynch vote from TheChyz to Dragoon: On January 06 2014 23:43 dnyarri wrote:Actually I have changed my primary target of suspicion from TheChyz to TheDragoon mainly because of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=16#316TheDragoon stated that Day_Walker seemed like innocent even though Day_Walker had only posted one list and nothing else. Day_Walker's only vote is against TheChyz which doesn't mean much since TheChyz is easy bandwagoning target. TheDragoon's post give me the impression that he wants to slow voting down by defending (random) people while going to TheChyz-bandwagon and attacking nobody else. TheChyz is confusing but I'm not sure if it's carelessness or risk taking. My logic for calling him scum was somewhat faulted too I think. ##unvote ##vote: TheDragoon This feels like rather weak reasoning to me, and I'm not sure the part I bolded - which seems to be sharing his thought process from evidence to vote - even makes sense. On one hand, it's hard to call him a bandwagoner because he placed to first vote on Dragoon. On the other hand, between dnyarri's first and second post we had the IC retract his Chyz vote, and BigDad label me and Dragoon as scummy. The wind was definitely blowing away from Chyz and towards Dragoon before dnyarri changed his vote. Dnyarri's last post is fine, and I agree with a lot of the content, but it was prompted by an accusation by Balla of rehashing and not talking about enough people. A fine post, but one that was prompted, rather than spontaneous.
sidesprang
+ Show Spoiler +Three posts the first day. Two of them are spent agreeing with Balla, the last one gives the consensus view of OWB and Chyz. Comes in late on the second day and drops this: On January 07 2014 10:44 sidesprang wrote:Been away most of the day sry. Skimming through the thread now. Came to this. Voting for yourself make it an autovote for me. If you are town please fight for your life, we have everything to gain. If town we will hopefully see it, if scum we will hopefully be more sure you are scum after your defence. ##Vote theDragoonShow nested quote +On January 07 2014 07:21 theDragoon wrote:On January 07 2014 07:11 Balla24 wrote:Eh, you are misjudging us if you think we're experienced players... we are just experienced with noob games  But rest assured, if you're new we are and SHOULD be taking it into account... but explicitly stating "I AM NEW PLS DONT LYNCH ME MY READS MIGHT BE BAD" is NOT helpful whatsoever. Catch my drift? /offtopic:Yea i get it. I just felt like a lot of people look into my posts too much thinking there's some sort of link or slip or whatever when in reality i just don't know WTF I'm doing. /ontopic: I'm gonna ##Unvote onlywonderboy and ##Vote theDragoon. There's no way to get out of this mess, you're all really looking at the wrong guy. I guess without me fucking things up for the town, you'd be better off but this is going to be 2 down for mafia after the first night. I have to head out, I'll be on later. I'll be catching up for a bit, if anyone have any questions feel free to ask I'll be around for a bit. But gonna use some time catching up as a lot have been posted. What's this? An autovote that absolves him of any need to justify hopping on carriage #9 of the lynch train? How convenient. Any desire to make a substantive comment on the day that he missed? Apparently not.
onlywonderboy
+ Show Spoiler +Here is my last post on him: On January 07 2014 11:41 Day_Walker wrote:
@Suki @Balla24
Here is my line of thinking on OBW:
After day 1, his filter had three posts. One cautionary comment about reading Balla, one good point about the IC and a promise to be a good townie, and one question about policy debates and scum hunting.
All fine things to post, and he gets some good feedback (e.g. my list). But these are also very safe posts, and that's all we get for the first 24 hours. I can read this as a scum thinking "great, said some things, got people to like me, now I can let them argue about Chyz for a day". This was the point at which I suggested OBW as a possible lynch target.
His posting for the next day starts with the first big reaction to the me + Dragoon scum pair idea that BigDad brought up, and then he basically rides that idea for the rest of the day.
So the meat of his contribution over the last two days is one read which I know (although Town doesn't) to be false, and it's a read that came served on a platter. From my perspective, OBW's actions makes a lot of sense as scum. I'll just add to this by noting that OWB placed vote #3 on Dragoon.
I've said nothing about Dragoon's behavior. I don't think I have to. Based on the actions of other players, I'm fairly confident that we just saw the mafia run a bandwagon.
I'm not dismissing the reads of suki and Jonny (the only two people who have made substantial arguments for lynching Dragoon). But if Dragoon is scum, we can get him later. He is at least willing to be around and talk with the Town. And most importantly, we have better lynch targets. I ordered the lurkers from most to least scummy, and I think that either dnyarri or sidesprang would make a solid lynch.
## Vote dnyarri
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Dny is euro this should be his primetime. If he doesn't show up in the thread I'm okay with that vote. Both of his posts are pretty bad.
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newbies are way too nice... im starting to see the merit to your style of play jonny
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He hasnt voted yet. I expect some action from him before deadline which is what like 11pm in finland? I honestly dunno what to do with OWB. He does the same thing as town and scum. 1-2 decent posts a day and no more and no less.
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yeah me neither, although fwiw i'm leaning more town on him for the content of his posts this time
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Man balla, I'd say go read the lolmafia but it ended up with hundreds of pages of nothing. I got brutalized there. Called out immediately and the pressure never stopped.
Pressure makes people play differently.
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i couldn't really keep up with the part where you were alive in that game haha but i did read the end of it.....
i think i just need somebody to call me fucking awful or some shit to spark me...
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one thing about dynarri that i noticed in that big post:
read suki as town because they were both doing a lot of the same stuff...
My opinions about suki are based on the simple reason that suki has suspected the same players as I have, TheChyz and TheDragoon. Suki also unvoted TheChyz, like I did.
feels weird that he specifically points out that last part... why does that matter...? FEELS ODD MAN
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If we're going to lynch lurkers tho today's the day to start. Think on it and bring your opinion tomorrow when dny has a chance to respond. If there's no content I'll lynch him or owb instead.
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so you agree that there's mafia in the current vote right?
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On January 07 2014 17:33 Day_Walker wrote:Ok Dragoon seems more or less done talking, and I want to hear Balla's take on my thoughts. Let's talk about lurkers. dnyarri+ Show Spoiler +Three total posts. I flagged his first post as potentially scum, and given his follpw-up it looks even worse to me now than it did then. His second post switches his lynch vote from TheChyz to Dragoon: On January 06 2014 23:43 dnyarri wrote:Actually I have changed my primary target of suspicion from TheChyz to TheDragoon mainly because of this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=434723¤tpage=16#316TheDragoon stated that Day_Walker seemed like innocent even though Day_Walker had only posted one list and nothing else. Day_Walker's only vote is against TheChyz which doesn't mean much since TheChyz is easy bandwagoning target. TheDragoon's post give me the impression that he wants to slow voting down by defending (random) people while going to TheChyz-bandwagon and attacking nobody else. TheChyz is confusing but I'm not sure if it's carelessness or risk taking. My logic for calling him scum was somewhat faulted too I think. ##unvote ##vote: TheDragoon This feels like rather weak reasoning to me, and I'm not sure the part I bolded - which seems to be sharing his thought process from evidence to vote - even makes sense. On one hand, it's hard to call him a bandwagoner because he placed to first vote on Dragoon. On the other hand, between dnyarri's first and second post we had the IC retract his Chyz vote, and BigDad label me and Dragoon as scummy. The wind was definitely blowing away from Chyz and towards Dragoon before dnyarri changed his vote. Dnyarri's last post is fine, and I agree with a lot of the content, but it was prompted by an accusation by Balla of rehashing and not talking about enough people. A fine post, but one that was prompted, rather than spontaneous. Three posts the first day. Two of them are spent agreeing with Balla, the last one gives the consensus view of OWB and Chyz. Comes in late on the second day and drops this: On January 07 2014 10:44 sidesprang wrote:Been away most of the day sry. Skimming through the thread now. Came to this. Voting for yourself make it an autovote for me. If you are town please fight for your life, we have everything to gain. If town we will hopefully see it, if scum we will hopefully be more sure you are scum after your defence. ##Vote theDragoonShow nested quote +On January 07 2014 07:21 theDragoon wrote:On January 07 2014 07:11 Balla24 wrote:Eh, you are misjudging us if you think we're experienced players... we are just experienced with noob games But rest assured, if you're new we are and SHOULD be taking it into account... but explicitly stating "I AM NEW PLS DONT LYNCH ME MY READS MIGHT BE BAD" is NOT helpful whatsoever. Catch my drift? /offtopic:Yea i get it. I just felt like a lot of people look into my posts too much thinking there's some sort of link or slip or whatever when in reality i just don't know WTF I'm doing. /ontopic: I'm gonna ##Unvote onlywonderboy and ##Vote theDragoon. There's no way to get out of this mess, you're all really looking at the wrong guy. I guess without me fucking things up for the town, you'd be better off but this is going to be 2 down for mafia after the first night. I have to head out, I'll be on later. I'll be catching up for a bit, if anyone have any questions feel free to ask I'll be around for a bit. But gonna use some time catching up as a lot have been posted. What's this? An autovote that absolves him of any need to justify hopping on carriage #9 of the lynch train? How convenient. Any desire to make a substantive comment on the day that he missed? Apparently not. Here is my last post on him: On January 07 2014 11:41 Day_Walker wrote:
@Suki @Balla24
Here is my line of thinking on OBW:
After day 1, his filter had three posts. One cautionary comment about reading Balla, one good point about the IC and a promise to be a good townie, and one question about policy debates and scum hunting.
All fine things to post, and he gets some good feedback (e.g. my list). But these are also very safe posts, and that's all we get for the first 24 hours. I can read this as a scum thinking "great, said some things, got people to like me, now I can let them argue about Chyz for a day". This was the point at which I suggested OBW as a possible lynch target.
His posting for the next day starts with the first big reaction to the me + Dragoon scum pair idea that BigDad brought up, and then he basically rides that idea for the rest of the day.
So the meat of his contribution over the last two days is one read which I know (although Town doesn't) to be false, and it's a read that came served on a platter. From my perspective, OBW's actions makes a lot of sense as scum. I'll just add to this by noting that OWB placed vote #3 on Dragoon. I've said nothing about Dragoon's behavior. I don't think I have to. Based on the actions of other players, I'm fairly confident that we just saw the mafia run a bandwagon. I'm not dismissing the reads of suki and Jonny (the only two people who have made substantial arguments for lynching Dragoon). But if Dragoon is scum, we can get him later. He is at least willing to be around and talk with the Town. And most importantly, we have better lynch targets. I ordered the lurkers from most to least scummy, and I think that either dnyarri or sidesprang would make a solid lynch. ## Vote dnyarri
I'm still not sure whether I actually want to lynch a lurker tomorrow or not. But hopefully this conversation can help me decide.
What annoys me the most out of dnyarri is straight up the lack of posting and sense, i just straight up can't read them well because of it. I think that's what you're getting at too. So yeah, totally agree. For sidesprang, i keep flip flopping on him... but it's kind of similar to OWB's scum last game where he clearly says he's gonna do stuff like catch up but yet doesn't post any thoughts about it later.
For OWB, I think I just posted something about him, but I'm reading him more townie mostly because of my meta with him. He's committing more, and minimally talking about policy and theorycrafting compared to his scumgame where that was almost all he talked about.
"I'm fairly confident that we just saw the mafia run a bandwagon." - I don't really understand why you're going after the lurkers then? Why not directly go after the people with cases on dragoon (me, suki, jonnylaw)?
Why are you specifically asking me for a response here as well? What is your read on me? Scum or town, i can't tell. Seems like you're accusing me.
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Gonna go cuddle up in my bed, still gonna be around... ^_^
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EPT
