EPTPosting again, get that top page snipe.
[Patch 3.10: Yimake Patch] General Discussion - Page 260
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
Posting again, get that top page snipe. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On August 16 2013 06:34 Lord Tolkien wrote: I'll admit, I'm talking from a top lane perspective of the matchup. The mid lane version may be different/more even, though the mechanics of the Vlad v. Zed matchup generally shouldn't have Zed crushing Vlad. I'm thinking that Zed loses if he lets the lane push. But if he can hold the wave or push it, autoattack harass becomes a lot less effective, and he if he goes allin at even HP, early levels he should win by a landslide. Probably do something like a red pot opening with EW, eat whatever harass you need to at level 1 to start pushing the lane(pot up), and at level 2, just shadow E and start going ham on him with red pot and ignite. I don't think a few ranged minions will make up the massive gap in damage from zed to vlad. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On August 16 2013 06:55 AsnSensation wrote: when I first started playing I looked up a rammus guide ( on Mobafire l0l) and it said Phantom Dancer first, obviously I thought it was legit haha. Mobafire guides are mostly terrible especially because you don't know who is writing them, most of them are written by unranked teenagers with poor game knowledge. | ||
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XilDarkz
United States563 Posts
On August 16 2013 06:56 Kuja900 wrote: Mobafire guides are mostly terrible especially because you don't know who is writing them, most of them are written by unranked teenagers with poor game knowledge. Someone told me to build Phantom Dancer and Statik Shiv on Rammus, and was like wtf are you doing when I showed up later in the game with them. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On August 16 2013 06:52 Amui wrote: I'm thinking that Zed loses if he lets the lane push. But if he can hold the wave or push it, autoattack harass becomes a lot less effective, and he if he goes allin at even HP, early levels he should win by a landslide. Probably do something like a red pot opening with EW, eat whatever harass you need to at level 1 to start pushing the lane(pot up), and at level 2, just shadow E and start going ham on him with red pot and ignite. I don't think a few ranged minions will make up the massive gap in damage from zed to vlad. Certainly, Zed can try to go all in early on. The issue is that Vlad will normally start cloth+5 in this lane, which greatly diminishes his effective all-in, and it will be extremely difficult for Zed to try a 100-0 kill at early levels. If all he has is W and E, a Vlad will just laugh, given Vlad's pool has a larger slow (and allows him an easy escape from your all-in attempt), and he basically gets several levels of free lane dominance and minion denial. You can certainly push early on (and indeed, you should), but if Vlad's at his tower, Zed has even lower kill potential. It's also generally difficult early on, as the melee/ranged interaction means the ranged character has a much easier time pushing than the melee, and spell damage doesn't attract minion agro (so still free Qs from Vlad). The issue is that it's just difficult to all-in a Vlad as Zed, and a common Vlad rune page includes %ms quints, which means he can generally outrun Zed if he does go in with a shadow (which are also telegraphed, mind). I've had Zed's start Red Pot, the issue is that if he's going HAM, then Vlad can pool, and at worst, ghost. If you're playing Vlad, you shouldn't take more than 1 auto at the most from Zed, maybe a Shuriken. Meanwhile, he takes a Q+E, maybe 2 Es (and later into the lane phase, 2 Qs), while the downtime on Zed's shadow gives Vlad full reign of the lane. The issue is that you're arguing Zed's full burst vs. Vlad's full burst. Vlad wins the matchup by basically being able to avoid Zed's all-in in its entirety, and winning via attrition. Zed can attempt an early kill, but Vlad will simply avoid the damage, and deal enough retaliation damage that Zed's forced into the defensive for the duration of the lane phase. At level 6, Vlad will pool death mark on reaction, giving Zed basically no window to actually get damage on him. Coupled with an armguard and being at near 100% hp perpetually, means Zed has no kill potential without the jungler. Also, early pushing is a big red flag for the jungler in top lane nowadays. Most junglers start bot lane (blue/red) and move their way to top side jungle. By the time Zed's preparing to all-in with a red pot, the jungler will be in the area, and without a ward, Zed's a target, even with a W+flash. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On August 16 2013 07:42 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: I would think that the matchup would be almost impossible for Vlad in the first 9 levels and then Zed with hexdrinker/cutlass could just kill him regardless of pool because all of Vlad's abilities cost hp so as long as Zed initiates with ult he's still doing like 20% of Vlad's hp and then Vlad has no pool to escape from cutlass. I disagree with the pre-9 matchup assessment. It is absolutely not that lopsided. At worst, it's even/a skill matchup. It's certainly not Swain-tier difficulty for Vlad. Worst comes to worst, Vlad can turn it into a farm lane and outscale Zed. As for Hexdrinker/Cutlass, that's a large itemization assumption, and similarly, Vlad will have itemized an Armguard+Revolver (or Giants) by that point of time at least, which makes him much more difficult to kill for Zed. If we're continuing the hypothetical, Vlad can simply ghost before pooling, and make his escape. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On August 16 2013 08:07 Frolossus wrote: i've tried vlad vs zed and find it much easier to manage than zed vs any other mage right now we don't know whether you were the vlad or the zed | ||
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XilDarkz
United States563 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On August 16 2013 08:12 XilDarkz wrote: no one feedbacked on my TF/gp10/athene post It's alright, Twin Shadows is alright on him. You're trading burst for later gold so the timing is kinda weird. Sometimes having more damage would be better, I think it's situational. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On August 16 2013 08:12 XilDarkz wrote: no one feedbacked on my TF/gp10/athene post The only GP10 that builds into anything is kages. That's fine. Everything else is shit because you'll be investing 700g into deadweight stats. You should also know better than to listen to anything that guy says is good. He makes his living trolling. | ||
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
On August 16 2013 08:12 XilDarkz wrote: no one feedbacked on my TF/gp10/athene post It's not you, it's Athene. Well... it's not you this time edit: really though when GD is moving fast a lot of posts get skipped over, even on-topic ones. If you just want one question answered, I recommend the Simple Questions, Simple Answers thread | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 16 2013 07:03 XilDarkz wrote: Someone told me to build Phantom Dancer and Statik Shiv on Rammus, and was like wtf are you doing when I showed up later in the game with them. Once upon a time, PD on Rammus was actually kind of legit. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23445 Posts
i remember killing vaynes nearly full to zero in a taunt cd with E armour pen +crits +ult + damage return from w | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On August 16 2013 08:48 Slayer91 wrote: hilariously legit i remember killing vaynes nearly full to zero in a taunt cd with E armour pen +crits +ult + damage return from w It was even legit on Mundo! | ||
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